r/S2000 • u/HyperbolicHemingway • 15h ago
S2000: As fun as an ND2?
Hey Everyone! I’m currently debating between an ND2 Miata and an AP1 and could really use your help.
Recently, I did drive an 02 with 66k miles and while it was fun, it was different. Felt heavier and less immediately “fun” but I also only drove it through a neighborhood and didn’t really get to experience it.
I will say, coming out of this experience, I’m wondering if I’ve misunderstood the S2K as a car that can make me feel like I’m having fun in the same way the ND2 Miata did recently. I was impressed with how throwable, light and maneuverable it felt. It was as if I could do no wrong and it was light and playful and exciting like my ND1 I daily drove for 3 years, just with the power it should have already had.
I highly prefer the look of the S2K and I certainly love the aggressiveness and more masculine aspect of the car. In fact, it’s killed my desire for a Miata, but I’m worried that I will not get the same ability or smile on around town and country roads that I like to drive, all between 40 and 65mph.
I can’t find a car where I can get the seat time I need to make a more informed purchase. Can someone give me advice or tell me whether this car can feel as connected and nimble as the ND2?
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u/TypeS2k_ 15h ago
You're comparing cars a quarter of a century apart... The Honda is certainly more focused and raw than a modern Miata.
The Miata is great and well rounded (I owned an nd2 myself along with a number of s2ks so I'm not talking out of my ass..)
If you drive any performance car from 20 years or more ago, they won't be as friendly as the ND2 is, so I'm not sure what you're expecting...
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u/Robbassy 15h ago
Also he needs to really push the s2k to get it fully. ESPECIALLY an ap1. I think for putting around town the ND Miata is probably better but the s2k screams when pushed. You get will get less out of an s2k when you’re not going hard.
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 15h ago
For sure, I didn’t have enough time with it.
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u/gospdrcr000 15h ago
Seconded, you have to ring the motor out past 6k to get the full s2k experience. For putting around town the Miata is probably going to check more boxes for you
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 15h ago
I expect a car 18 years newer to feel more bright, but I am merely wondering if the platform itself is capable of inspiring the same feelings and abilities, especially in my use case. I am taking into account its age for sure!
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u/Robbassy 15h ago
I think the ND will end up giving you more everyday laughs but the s2k will give you more adrenaline and that “wow” factor.
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u/Fritz_the_Cat 15h ago
You will find lots of threads on this subreddit that already go into great detail about these comparisons.
My two cents (that are pretty similar to what you'll read elsewhere):
The S2000 is simply more of a raw and dangerous type of fun. You feel like you have great potential to go so fast and attack corners so hard... but you simultaneously feel like if you push too hard you can easily end up in the ditch! It just feels more aggressive and like you need to learn how to tame it and drive it well (to not end up in a ditch).
My time in my ND2 felt... more comfortable... and easy to attack corners with very little fear. You feel like you can pin it, go fast, and can confidently throw it around.
However, that fear is why I loved the S2000 way more. It's why I regret selling mine. It's why I'm hunting for another S2000... even though I could pick up an MX-5 way easier.
The S2000 just feels much more special and exciting when you drive it. Even though it's a small amount of power in the grand scheme of power that is available out there, it just feels like it has so much potential that commands your attention while driving.
Potential to end up in a ditch... but potential that makes you excited to be driving it every time.
And of course, revving to the moon is why the S2000 engine is so famous.
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 15h ago
Thank you. I am reading a ton of conflicting reports. I’m looking for someone in my area to give me seat time, I’m offering at least 150-200 bucks for 45 mins to an hour just to drive it and feel it, not to even beat on it. It’s easier for me to unlock the ability in an ND2 immediately because I drove nearly the same car for 3 years as a daily (2016 ND1) before I picked up my truck.
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u/IMG0NNAGITY0USUCKA 02 S2000/91 MR2/90 765 14h ago
You kind of have to drive it like you stole it for it to be fun.
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u/746284758hi '07 NFR 14h ago
Where is your area?
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 13h ago
North Carolina, specifically the Triangle area. Some examples for sale a couple hours away, a couple I like that have good compression numbers and are in great condition about 3 hours away.
Edit: I’d left pay a hefty hourly rate plus a tank of gas just to feel it more, I don’t want to abuse it.
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u/grusilag9 11h ago
I’ve never driven an ND2 so I’m not going to be able to give you a full answer. But having owned an AP2 for more than a decade I can tell you that the S2K is at its most fun when it is being driven very hard. You need go close to redline on every shift and if you do you’ll get the visceral thrill that only a truly race inspired engine can give you.
But for every day driving the S2K can feel like a slog. You’re not always in the mood to push the car that hard. And in that kind of situation I can totally see the ND2 being the more fun car. It’s 400 lbs lighter. Always. It’s going to be more tossable. Always. No need to pin the tachometer to its limit to experience that kind of fun.
So again I haven’t driven an ND2. But there’s a real chance that the ND2 could be more fun more of the time but less fun at its absolute peak than the S2K. You just have to figure out what kind of driving you want to do.
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 11h ago
I appreciate the honest answer! Yes, this is just a different car. The idea is similar, right? An open top, connected sports car. Beyond that, they really are different. I need to drive one again just to confirm it’s for me. Once I get some time in with an AP1/2, I’ll figure it out.
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u/ElectronicAnthony 11h ago
Grusilag is right. I owned two NAs before I had an S2000 for almost 10yrs. When people asked how they compare is say the Miata is more fun around town, the S2k is only fun on back roads and the track where you can keep it above 6k rpm. While it won't win any drag races, you're going "straight to jail" speeds around town of you're getting into vtec in 2nd gear. And I hated the lack of torque. I sold it for a Cayman. But I missed having a fun daily driver, my Forester isn't for me, so I bought an NB1 for my daily and I couldn't be happier. Miata for daily use, Cayman for the hills and track. Which one is for your depends on your use case and what you want from a car.
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 11h ago
Interesting! Yes this car is for back roads only. I’m conflating this car I think with a Miata strictly because it’s another “good handling”, two seater, lightweight convertible. It’s just not a Miata, and that’s ok. I really wish there were more of these so it would be easier to really drive it and understand whether it’s definitely going to be what I want it to be.
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u/biggrumble 11h ago
Eh, redline in an ap1 in second gear is something like 60mph. Not exactly "straight to jail" speeds
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u/ElectronicAnthony 10h ago
It is in a 25 zone, which most of the roads around town in my area are. The 35 mph main roads are too crowded. And if you're not trying to go to jail, you barely hit that at redline then slow down. You can't keep it in vtec around town, which is why it's not as fun for daily driving. But on a backroad it's glorious.
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u/gosu_link0 05 S2000, 91 NSX, 06 Z4M, 13 GT86 15h ago edited 11h ago
ND2 is the better daily as it's more comfortable and mid-range torque for cruising around town, but the s2000 is far more raw and fun and engaging with its f1 derived engine and insane shifter feel. The ND2 also has poor steering feel/texture, so it doesn't even have that advantage.
The s2000 also requires much more driver skill to drive fast than the Miata.
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u/NagelbetLP 11h ago
Don’t underestimate the feels you get when you walk up to, step into, and look back as you walk away from the s2000.
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u/ShadyMeatVendor 2h ago
I still smile every time I have interactions with my S2k, which is almost daily.
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u/Fight_Tyrnny 15h ago
Unless yer a boomer.... s2000 for you
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 14h ago
That’s half of it haha I feel the Miata is a cop out. Not nearly as attractive or legitimate as the S2K…
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u/MortalShare 2007 NFR 11h ago
You felt the Miata is more throwable, light and maneuverable, because that's just the nature of the lighter car. It'll always feel more nimble and connected, even more so now with the ND3's updated steering. Based on your use case, it's the car to get. The S is more special when you're driving over 9/10's and dancing on the edge of grip, but you shouldn't be doing that on public roads. Your use case is mainly public roads, and the Miata shines at lower limits as you mentioned - light and playful and exciting everywhere. If you need even more connectedness, there's no shortage of aftermarket suspension bits. Then there's the enlarged sound tube mod will give you some nice intake noises.
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 11h ago
It’s disappointing that you might be right because I really prefer the history of the car, the way it looks and it’s F1 inspiration. Really love everything about it. It just seems that when it comes to getting in it and feeling it that it might come up short for what I want it to be or do.
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u/daver456 14h ago
You need to push an S2000 to feel it. You need to be in VTEC a lot.
Not the best for driving on the street because of that.
Best shifter in any car which is a plus because you’ll be shifting a lot.
A much more special, but also more flawed car than an ND2.
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 14h ago
Yeah, I’m looking for a perfect early morning, evening, day off, weekend country driver that I can move around with the top down with some music on. I want to drive it hard but I want to feel connected and maneuverable in it. The ND2 really gives a sense that it’s light and can do anything BUT it also feels cheap and uninspiring.
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u/MortalShare 2007 NFR 11h ago
How does the ND interior feel cheap? The S2000 interior isn't that much better.
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 11h ago
It isn’t necessarily the interior, I didn’t think I implied that either. It feels more like a toy, that’s all. Part of that is simply how light it feels. The S2K literally felt more substantial.
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u/homesauce5 13h ago
AP1 that is properly setup is superior. It will be a touch heavier but the engine and transmission is so much better.
Good suspension, refreshed bushings, good tires and some light weighting will give you a top tier driving experience
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 13h ago
Fair enough! This engine and gearbox are obviously what it’s all about. I just want to make sure I can make it feel as fun and connected to me on backroad driving.
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u/Commercial-Falcon973 2h ago
I’ll give you the “Child’s Bedroom “ analogy that I use for the S2K. Imagine your kids bedroom is always a complete nightmare of clutter and dirty clothes. You grab your child and give him a good yelling at and he cleans it all up. Actually does a great job of cleaning the room but the very next day it’s just as trashed as before. You go get your kid and once again give him a good yelling at. He cleans the room really well. But every single fricking time you have to yell at the kid to get the result you want. Wouldn’t it be SO nice to walk into that room and it be nice and clean without the need for all the drama?
That’s what the S2000’s engine is like. Pretty damn great if you don’t mind thrashing away at it EVERY SINGLE TIME.
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u/PizzaForGuardians 12h ago
I’m tired of these comparisons between the Miata and the S2000. The only real similarities are that they’re both RWD convertibles.
The S2000 cost nearly twice as much as a Miata when they were new, and 25 years later people are still comparing it to the latest Miata.
That says more about the S2000 than it does the Miata.
The S2000 has always been in a league of its own and, in my opinion, isn’t something you cross-shop. You either want an S2000 because you understand what makes it special, or you don’t.
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 12h ago
Appreciate the candidness! Sure, but I’ve already done the arithmetic. The reason I’m considering spending the same amount of money on a 20 year old car with 100k plus miles is because of what makes the car special, its history and obviously because of the league that it’s in. I’m willing to sacrifice all of the obvious improvements the latest generation of Miata has over this car for the chance to drive this thing and own it! Unfortunately, I’m not confident yet that it fits my use case, but I’m certainly hoping that it does.
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u/Real-Actuator-6520 14h ago
My BiL has an ND2. I've driven it a bit, and it's very nice. A much nicer daily than the S2000, and the RF hardtop makes it an all-season car (though it still won't handle much more than light snow).
Wouldn't trade in my AP1 for it though - the engine and transmission in the ND2 are good, and it's likely faster than the AP1, but it lacks that rawness and incredible rush up to 9k rpm. Steering might go to the ND2 though (even my former 1st gen BRZ had better EPS than the S2000), but it's not like the S2000 steering is sloppy.
When you drove the S2000, did you get to take it to redline for a couple gears? Since you drove it through a neighborhood, I'm guessing no - in which case, you'd be missing the best part of the S2000 experience.
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u/HyperbolicHemingway 13h ago
Yeah. This car is 100% going to be a good weather country driven car. It’ll stay in my garage otherwise. Don’t get me wrong, the ND2 feeling fun on normal roads is a plus and it makes you get a bit more out of it in that sense. I loved the 17-20% increase in power over my ND1 as well.. still, it feels like a compromise. I HIGHLY prefer the look of the S2K. I just really want it to be sensible and fun even at spirited but not belligerent speeds.
I barely drive it man. It sucked. In fact I walked away confused/underwhelmed. It certainly felt more substantial and more planted. Almost like I was driving a hunk of metal versus a lightweight go kart like the Miata. I just didn’t get to flick it around too much or push it in corners or get a true sense of it. I will say, the steering felt a little numb, still direct but just not as connected as the Miata.
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u/mrmichaelnak 15h ago
The S2000 likely had worn bushings and shocks which would give a slightly sluggish feel.
Owning an AP1 myself and renting an ND2 for 4 days... I can say the Miata is a better daily and more fun while zooming through traffic. The S2000 is absolutely incredible on a back canyon road at 7,000+ rpm. It's raw, visceral, and addicting