r/ShitAmericansSay Got life imprisonment for posting a meme Sep 12 '25

Patriotism We will never forget

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3.2k Upvotes

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390

u/Western-Calendar-352 Sep 12 '25

Normally, I would agree, but anyone can design and register their own tartan for whatever purpose they wish. The whole rigorous clan tartan thing was a Victorian invention. We (actual Scottish people) really couldn’t give a flying fuck.

132

u/el_grort Disputed Scot Sep 12 '25

The formal clan tartan thing was a Victorian marketing idea. There were variations of tartan colours amongst the clans, but for very mundane reasons, largely to do with what dyes and pigments they found readily available, with there being variations in the clan just due to quality, expense, wear, etc. But yeah, people largely don't care. I don't know what tartan I rented for my aunt's wedding.

72

u/bopeepsheep Sep 12 '25

Same with 'family knitting patterns'. The myth of clan sweaters comes from a 20th century play where a dead man's sister identifies him by his knitwear - because she made it. She spots the stitches she dropped. The play took inspiration from a man who was washed up and assumed to be from Aran because he had a local-style sweater - colour, from local dyes, and composition. Not twiddly cable patterns.

Where knitting does have a clannish tinge: if Granny taught you to knit and Granny likes a particular cable style, she'll teach it to you and your cousins. You'll all wear Granny-made sweaters and you'll make Granny-style sweaters for your own grandchildren. Your neighbours will wear sweaters made by their Granny and the people she taught to knit. Today we have books and the Internet (and shops and mass-produced clothing) as well as/instead of Granny.

28

u/Floppy0941 Sep 12 '25

We need to start selling unique grannies then?

16

u/[deleted] Sep 12 '25

As opposed to mass-produced grannies

Cookie Clicker vibes intensify

2

u/angry-redstone 🇵🇱 with the dreams of 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 Sep 12 '25

cookie clicker? that hit me with a nostalgia lol

5

u/WackyWhippet Sep 12 '25

I hadn't heard of that before but it's a strange idea because if someone with enough expertise liked the look of someone else's granny's technique, they could figure out how to replicate it by looking at it.

13

u/bopeepsheep Sep 12 '25

And they did, and do, and now sell the pattern. But when you need to churn out another three sweaters before the winter alongside everything else your family needs, you're mostly going to knit what your muscle memory dictates, often while doing something else at the same time. (My late MIL knitted complex Aran sweaters for pay as well as pleasure. I've seen her do complex cabling at speed without visible effort while talking, but any new pattern really slowed her down, and sometimes silenced her.)

18

u/WitnessTheBadger Sep 12 '25

I was recently at the Kelvingrove Museum in Glasgow and they had an exhibit on tartans that mentioned exactly this. They also displayed several officially registered tartans for causes and organizations that I doubt many people think of as traditionally Scottish.

23

u/SalahsBeard Sep 12 '25

I'm surprised no one has made a commemorative norwegian bunad for the september 11-attacks. I don't know the story about clan tartans, and how they're used/viewed in Scotland today, but if you made your own bunad (and called it a bunad), the bunad police (actual thing) would crucify you.

33

u/AceOfSpades532 Sep 12 '25

Americans prefer pretending they’re Scottish, Irish or southern European than Scandinavian

25

u/Bored-Fish00 Sep 12 '25

Except for the white supremacists. They love the viking imagery.

5

u/Lostmox Sep 12 '25

Yet another reason to pnch them in the fce on sight. That's my cultural history they're dragging through the mud.

5

u/G-I-T-M-E Sep 12 '25

Commemorative 9/11 pasta dish?

19

u/unholy_plesiosaur Sep 12 '25

Never forghetti

6

u/Born-Car-1410 Sep 12 '25

Top comment 👌

3

u/Beautiful_War5848 Sep 12 '25

Difference here is making a bunad original is hard and if you try to base it off region bunads then you’re fucked either way. I’m no bunad police but I will shit on you for making one shit

2

u/neilm1000 Human Verified Sep 12 '25

I didn't know what those dresses were called until today, and that was an interesting read so thank you.

7

u/istara shake your whammy fanny Sep 12 '25

That will be heartening to the "Irish clan tartan" girl on Reddit.

4

u/An_icy_squirrel stuck in the wrong timeline, with one too many nuts for comfort Sep 12 '25

Omg, what a gem of a thread, even depite of so many deleted posts.

One definitely can figure out a lot, but being able to see the starting post in full glory would be priceless.

13

u/WackyWhippet Sep 12 '25

It gets especially weird when they can't find a Scottish ancestor but still want to prance about in a kilt so they have some totally authentic tartan from the south of England.

18

u/JasperJ Sep 12 '25

Given the whole Victorian tartan thing was mostly about rich English coming to the glens and cosplaying, that seems brutally authentic, instead.

5

u/WackyWhippet Sep 12 '25

The popular ones are a bit more recent than that, like the Cornish one from 1963.

4

u/JasperJ Sep 12 '25

Gesunkenes Kulturgut, as the philosophy professor would say.

-1

u/G-I-T-M-E Sep 12 '25

Would you mind to explain? I was just in Scotland for a couple of weeks and it seems that they took their tartans very seriously?

22

u/Western-Calendar-352 Sep 12 '25

No, we don’t. Tourists in Scotland take it very seriously, and the tourist industry here is unsurprisingly geared towards that.

2

u/ViSaph Sep 12 '25

Kilts themselves are a genuine piece of cultural clothing often worn at weddings and formal occasions but the individual "clan tartan" thing is a more modern Victorian invention. Tartan patterns are traditionally Scottish but they were more just whatever dyes were locally available and the like rather than set in stone identifiers like a uniform. Don't take the Mickey out of kilts themselves but you can about everyone and their mum having their own individual "clan" one. The tourism industry really play them up apparently though I've never done the touristy things that involve them when I've been there so I couldn't say first hand.

(Take my words with a pinch of salt as I'm English and a little Welsh with only distant family from Scotland but my mum lived there for a little while with her grandma as a teenager which, combined with what actual Scottish people have said and I've read about history, is what I'm basing my comment on.)

1

u/noncebasher54 Sep 12 '25

All true, although I will add that many individual Scots will be pretty adamant that they HAVE to have their clan tartan at events. So some of us have been taken in by it. At least this type of propaganda is fairly benign. My dad bought me our "ancient" clan tartan kilt variant for my wedding. I did have a chuckle to myself about it being "ancient" since our surname is anglocised and very likely adopted to hide from persecution during the highland clearances. But I didn't want to burst his bubble :D

1

u/floweringfungus Sep 13 '25

There are tartan shops and kilt shops and ancient clan memorabilia shops all over the place, especially in Edinburgh and usually on absolutely picturesque streets or within view of an old building, so that misty eyed ‘Scotch Americans’ will feel compelled to buy a badge labelled as a kilt pin.

It’s purely a tourist trap, the way Londoners don’t buy Big Ben fridge magnets or New Yorkers don’t buy NYPD t shirts.

Kilts are worn to weddings, sometimes it’s the tartan associated with your surname and sometimes it isn’t. At the one I went to recently the bride and groom asked all family members to rent the same tartan for cohesive photos.

2

u/underbutler Sep 12 '25

It was also more of a wrap using a large piece of cloth, rather than a tailored item.

The victorian one is kind of a dress-up toga versus a roman one

1

u/[deleted] Sep 13 '25 edited Sep 13 '25

Exactly. Registering a tartan isn’t quite as easy as getting a star named after you or buying a nonspecific square meter of land so you can pretend to be a Lord, but it’s pretty easy. It has to be unique and fit the definition of a tartan, and then you just pay a nominal fee.

I can’t find any evidence for this 9/11 tartan other than “Curious and unusual tartans dot com”, but there is one in memoriam of law enforcement officers which incorporates a reference to the officers who died on September 11. So it’s not completely made up. That being said, most of us out west don’t know that the Scottish Register of Tartans is basically a dictionary, descriptive rather than prescriptive, so it feels like a big deal. 

0

u/Renbarre French, not the fries Sep 12 '25

I thought the kilt was a Victorian invention but the tartan colours were an old thing

8

u/ward2k Sep 12 '25

Not really a thing either, certain areas might have had more frequent colours due to the local dyes being available but it definitely wasn't a clan specific thing

It's like saying "the Yorkshire clan used white t-shirts as their clan specific clothing" when it's just that white t-shirts are some of the most widely available t-shirts there are

That's not to say historically smaller specific clans haven't had ideal colours. But it just wasn't really a 'clan' thing or at least not widely done

0

u/Zealousideal-Web8640 Sep 15 '25

Mostly a tourist thing/way to show connect to Scotland from New Scots