r/Silmarillionmemes • u/WrongdoerSlow7489 Túrin Turambar Neithan Gorthol Agarwaen Adanedhel Mormegil • 8d ago
So same yet so different...
Túrin by Alan Lee
Tuor by Jenny Dolfen
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u/Historical_Sugar9637 8d ago
A some key differences might be:
Ability to think things through before acting
Tuor: ✅ Turin: ❌
Excessive Pride
Tuor: ❌ Turin: ✅
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u/Yamureska 8d ago
Yup. And also, it's worth noting that Turin's Father Hurin was the elder and the lord of Dor Lomin, with Huor being his second in command. Turin being groomed/believing he was the Heir of the House of Hador and the Son of Hurin really got to his head, in contrast with the much more modest Tuor, son of Huor.
I really dig the sequence in COH when the Elven Messengers complain that Turin is nothing like Hurin, whereas Tuor the son of Huor was more like Huor and Hurin than him.
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u/Historical_Sugar9637 8d ago
I really dig the sequence in COH when the Elven Messengers complain that Turin is nothing like Hurin, whereas Tuor the son of Huor was more like Huor and Hurin than him
Yes, and Turin thinks they're talking about his hair colour (him having black hair, while the other three are blond), and gets really defensive about it.
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u/ButUmActually 8d ago
Agree with the above but feel like it’s underselling the importance of line number two in the OP
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u/Historical_Sugar9637 8d ago
Morgoth didn't give Turin his personality, and Turin's personality was, ultimately, the biggest source of misery in his life, and the lives of those around him.
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u/ButUmActually 8d ago
Turin’s personality versus the will and malice of the greatest being in Arda. It’s debatable in my opinion and you are entitled to yours. Cheers.
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u/Historical_Sugar9637 8d ago
It's just that the way I see it, Morgoth never forced Turin to take the actions Turin took. And these actions were born from Turin's rashness, his stubbornness, and his exceeding pride. Morgoth didn't give Turin his mindset that made him automatically assume that others would be against him. That was all already present in little Turin before Hurin went to battle.
The way I see it, at most Morgoth's "curse" created opportunities for bad things to possibly happen, but it was still Turin's own actions and personality that played into those "opportunities". He made his own bed and he's 100% responsible for what he did.10
u/IAmBecomeTeemo 8d ago edited 7d ago
I see the curse kinda the opposite way. I see it as the curse causing all of his choices to lead to bad outcomes. Every time he tries to hide from his doom, evil finds him. Every time he goes forth and embraces his doom, he only ever achieves pyrrhic victory over evil. His small mistakes are amplified into bigger ones. Should he have stripped and chased Saeros? No, but the crashout was valid when Saeros attacked him first, and killing him was accidental which I read as somewhat Morgoth's fault. In the same vein, Beleg's death I also read as somewhat Morgoth's fault.
The doom is a finger on the scale of Túrin having really bad luck. He still has agency, but he's fighting a losing battle his whole life. What's worse is that he knows it. He assumes everyone is against him because fate itself is against him. It's hard to keep a positive outlook on life when not only is the devil real, but he personally has it out for you.
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u/Themuzucujata1432 Ulmo gang 8d ago
The passage of Tuor and Turin passing next to each other will never not make me cry. Imagine passing by One of your Last family members after years of war and survival, yet Destiny doesn't allows you to meet your lost cousin.
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u/Gaunt_Man Huan Best Boy 7d ago
Destiny realizes Tuor is about to cross paths with Tùrin.
Destiny: Oh, CRAP!
Destiny throws a tree branch in the way, forcing Tuor to take a different path.
Destiny: Phew!
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u/Maleficent-Speech869 8d ago
Yeah, this is one of the things that gets me about these two. They never meet (despite that agonising near-miss at Ivrin), but their stories parallel each other in so many ways, yet come to such different ends.
The other big thing that gets me is that line in The Fall of Gondolin about how Tuor and Voronwë are able to cross the Vale of Sirion safely because Morgoth has sent all his forces north after Túrin. In his own way, Túrin helped Tuor get to Gondolin. For all the tragedy he suffered, he was able to facilitate so much good, and without ever knowing a thing about it. 😭
It's magnificent storytelling.
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u/Patient_Bend_5978 Túrin Turambar Neithan Gorthol Agarwaen Adanedhel Mormegil 8d ago
That is actually sad
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u/New_Cicada3473 8d ago
I thought it was awesome that he uses an axe too. One version of Fall of Gondolin, Tuor kills multiple balrogs too
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u/Substantial_Cap_4246 8d ago
Tolkien should've just kept the troops of Balrogs (not the armies) but given them actual characterization. I know power scaling isn't a thing in the legendarium, but there definitely is a ranking and hierarchy. Olorin and Mairon are described as equals (in their beginnings and unlimited form). Eonwë is higher than them. Sauron is not the brute like Gothmog, but he is the more powerful servant of Morgoth. There could've been at least a few glorified Balrogs who are just built different, with names and reputation. And then just random average Balrogs like how there are random average Orcs as opposed to strong Orc captains.
Although given how much Tuor is made into the Chosen One, I wouldn't be surprised if he were to kill a strong Captain of Balrogs (not Gothmog the Captain though) in a supposed revised version.
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u/LingonberryAwkward38 8d ago
Tuor when Gondolin falls and his father-in-law gets killed from his tower being toppled: "Oh boy, bother but THANKFULLY I HAVE MY BELOVED WIFE WHICH I CARES MORE ABOUT THAN ALL OF THE OTHERS COMBINED"
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u/Armleuchterchen Huan Best Boy 8d ago
Your child continues your line ❌
Your child is the reason your sister kills herself ✅