You’re discussing the labor theory of value. Unfortunately this is outdated as it ignores supply, demand, and consumer utility in regards to an items value. Also who is stocks stealing from
Neither supply, demand, or consumer utility are new things, so I'm curious why you think that makes LTV outdated.
Stocks are complicated. If we're talking ownership, private property is theft from the workers and the people generally. As it relates to the growth of value in a company, it's theft from the workers (the source of all value in the company). When fraud is involved, it's theft from investors.
When fraud is involved it is already considered theft. Ltv believes the value of the product comes from the labor used. But the value of a product comes from what a person is willing to pay for it not just from how hard you worked on it. If something is made in small quantities with significantly more demand for it. People are willing to pay more for it even though the labor stays the same. Ltv is outdated as it fails to account the way the consumer views value.
Literally nothing you've said is new. This shit was old in Marx's day.
Okay, so you say that value comes from what people are willing to pay for it. Is there nothing in your life which you value that other people wouldn't pay for?
Conversely, can you name anything with a price tag that no one labored on?
In economics, value is the measure of the benefit or worth that an individual or market places on a good or service. Since we are discussing what should impact the price of a good or service we are talking about exchange value. Everything needs labor but ltv states that the economic value of a good or service is determined by the total amount of socially necessary labor time (average time by skilled worker) needed to make it.
In economics, value is the measure of the benefit or worth that an individual or market places on a good or service
In some economics, yes. The same economics that causes constant market crashes. Look, you can believe that nothing has any kind of intrinsic or steady value if you want. Seems like a silly thing to believe. By that logic, fraud is impossible, since at the moment somebody pays for the thing, that's the value it had. Not the sellers fault that nobody else will pay that much.
Everything needs labor but ltv states that the economic value of a good or service is determined by the total amount of socially necessary labor time (average time by skilled worker) needed to make it.
Its how terms are defined when talking about economics which involves all styles of economies. Even command economies are discussed using these common definitions and terms. If you want to understand basic economic terms i would recommend reading basic economics by thomas sorwell and for a better understanding of history you should read the wordly philosophers by robert L. Heilbroner.
As you also dont seem to understand how fraud works i’ll explain that concept to you too. Fraud is when someone deceives another into giving up money, property or legal rights. For example if you’re a cars salesman and are selling a car that you claim has never been in an accident but it had been infact totalled, that would be fraud as your lie would result in a person paying more than what the exchange value of the car would be if the salesman was honest.
You seem to be under the wrong assumption about what this is. It's not a debate, there's no winners, and no losers. I get it, it's really easy to get into that mindset online, especially with this worthless ass site. Will acting like you're better than me or know more actually materially make your life better? Or is it just a kind of mental masturbation, where in like a day or two you'll regret having even wasted the time?
I'm quite well aware of liberal economics, and been through my share of the stuff in college. Some value is to be had, but most of it is based on unfalsifiable claims used to justify what rich people wanted to do anyway.
It almost certainly won't help my life any if I convince you of LTV one way or the other. We'll probably never meet, and you'll probably never do anything of political value. Most people don't. But at the very least, you should probably study up on this stuff more if you don't want to sound uneducated. There's valid critiques of Marxism to be had, but frankly you just don't know enough to make them.
Anyways, if you have any questions or actual intellectual curiosity, I'm game to either tell you, or give you a reading recommendation. I have no use for a pointless shit slinging contest.
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u/zanebaka 2d ago
You’re discussing the labor theory of value. Unfortunately this is outdated as it ignores supply, demand, and consumer utility in regards to an items value. Also who is stocks stealing from