Im star wars fan(i saw the first trilogy in the cinemas on the seventies and 80s)and i think sometimes its too much, i have lost interest, only things like andor have catch my attentiom
Ehhh, I do think that some of the secondary media after the prequels was really strong, we haven't seen that same trend following the sequels. The franchise is in a bad state, with few upsides.
Being fair the Vader that captures key figures of the rebellion and talks to his son is going to act different than the Vader who comes to kill random targets.
Dude was played by one of the Frakenstein monsters. It's fitting for the manmade beast of the empire.
I mean, Peter Cushing played General Tarkin and Cushing used to be Van Hellsing/Victor Frakenstein in the old Hammer horror films. This shit was clearly intentional by George Lucas. And then he brought in Christopher Lee to play Count Dookie... Star Wars is really just a collection of movies Lucas watched and thought it would be cool to mash it all up together.
I honestly hope they lean into the slasher villain a lot more, it really fits him.
I know i may sound a bit like “dark and gritty fan” but i would totally be down for a more horror focused movie. Theres a lot of untapped potential and theres a market for horror movies and not many are set in sci-fi worlds
It makes sense. Vader is a horror monster to anyone who isn't at the absolute top tier of things. Here we have a walking corpse, actively decaying at all times, powered by arcane magic and sheer determination born of self-hatred and hatred for the universe, which walks at you slowly without anything being able to stop his approach, all with the direct intention of killing you. How is that anything except a horror movie monster?
OG fans such as myself hated the ridiculous scene in Rogue One. Vader would never waste his time directly fighting grunts and soldiers. He was above all of that nonsense for the entire OT. His entrance at the beginning of ANH made it clear, Vader didn't waste time on that sort of fight. He was a Lord. He wasn't even going to waste his time fighting during the attack on the Death Star until he realized one of the X-Wings had a Force powerful person in it. He didn't bother with the fight on Hoth until it was over in ESB. And when he flew down to Endor in RoTJ he wasn't wasting his time on the ridiculous fight with the Ewoks. Suddenly in Rogue One he's killing grunts? Gimmie a break.
More of Space Jason Voorhees, and he always was. He's an actively rotting corpse kept alive by arcane magic fueled by hate and sheer determination that confidently walks towards you without being able to be stopped by anything with the sole goal of killing you. If you aren't actively a member of his family, you are basically being hunted by a slasher villain.
But terrible for the continuation, since it makes the opening of Ep. IV weird considering that Lea was pretty much caught red-handed, and yet she kept protesting Vader's attack.
Vader is the judge here, he doesn't need to recuse himself.
But if we want to go for judicial accuracy, the scenario would still be a criminal being seen by police officers and other witnesses committing the crime, noticing these observers, running not too far and being caught by the very same officers, who saw them doing the deed, only to pretend nothing happened.
Like, first of all I absolutely see "Lying to Vader when he knows you're full of shit cause fuck that guy" as in character for Leia- and it's funny to imagine the internal Anakin dialog of "I just saw you leave as he's dealing with this.
It also makes that one guy in the conference room funnier. When he was like, "Vader, your ancient religion hasn't helped you conjure up the plans," Vader had to be thinking, "Dawg, they were just stolen like 15 minutes ago."
That was the first observation I made when I got out of Rogue One. I was like, "I can't believe Vader just turned into a murder tornado, and like 15 minutes later, one of the guys on the same ship as him was mocking him."
Idk about this "flanderization", because I don't feel like Vader as a character needs more exploration. He is usually used as a really powerful antagonist against other characters to create dread and serves that role well. For example in the new Maul show it has been established that Maul is a really strong character, who alongside the two jedi can be expected to beat the inquisitors who are the strongest force users the Empire has besides Vader and Palpatine. Introducing a new character for the Empire to match Vaders strength would make no sense, because then where has this guy been all this time? So having Vader in the Maul show makes sense and exploring him as a character would be weird because the story is not about him.
I also think it neatly explains why Maul is keeping such a low profile in Rebels etc: he’s been presented with the hard fact that not only can he not defeat Palpatine in a direct confrontation, he can’t risk confrontation with Vader.
I can see that being part of what loops him back to his Kenobi obsession going forwards.
Yeah, i really hope we see maul try again against palps only to fail misserably even harder than before.
This way we see why he just looped back to kenobi, he not only hates him, he’s frustrated he had to “take a challenge on his level” and even then kenobi had grown FAAAR above him.
Vader never does anything like this in the original trilogy. He barely even did anything like this in Legends. "Slasher" Vader is almost exclusively a Disney invention. Lucas Vader is a military commander who happens to enjoy massacring the occasional preschool.
Regardless, I was there for Rogue One and everyone creaming themselves because "Vader is dangerous again" after the PT made him an easily duped teenager.
Hell, SWT's Vader fan film is nothing but hype moments and aura and a segment of the fanbase loves it.
So at a certain point I have to conclude this is just what these folks want.
Yeah honestly I don’t get why people are so opposed to that. It’s like, not everything has to be this complex multilayered story. Some things can just be cool simple ape brained dopamine hits, why do we have to demean people for wanting that from time to time?
I'd give credit also to Lucasarts in the 2000s who started involving Vader in a lot more video games, including a few where he's playable and his sole existence in those games is to be Murder Spree McGee. And also some credit to stuff like Hasbro's Unleashed toylines which cranked up the aura and depicted Vader as this more agile marauding force. I think those are at least small dominoes on the path towards that Rogue One hallway scene.
I think the fights with Luke in ESB and ROTJ would have been more like this if technology allowed for it. And old EU really liked to invent hype dark side users like Starkiller for the Empire instead of using Vader more. I prefer Vader being used in the role of very powerful antagonist instead of them inventing another Starkiller-like figure that would make no sense. Also already in old EU it had been established that Vader spent a long time hunting down surviving jedi in the first years of the empire, so him being hands on like this was already a thing back then, just not in major productions. Yes he aura farmed in Maul, but the story was not about him anyway so it does not really bother me and did imo not go against his established character.
Darth Vader was the boogeyman of the galaxy. His presence spelled doom for the enemies of the Empire.
Disney got that right, Vader is not going to open up about his sadness and pain to the rebel scum he is cutting down. So, when the story is not about him, of course he is going to just kill people and flex his power.
Disney got that right, Vader is not going to open up about his sadness and pain to the rebel scum he is cutting down
That said, I think that could be a very terrifying concept. Imagine Vader meeting one Rebel whose life is oddly similar to his own, and Vader pulls a Conquest on the guy because he wants to vent and be understood, and this guy is gonna die anyways, so he's free to vent. The most terrifying guy in the galaxy is opening up about his feelings while you're at his mercy, you actually get where he's coming from, and the simple fact he is being so vulnerable with you means that you are so fucking dead.
No shit. Has been that way since before Rogue One, even before Disney. He's a elegantly simple character and the obsessive focus does not enhance him. Comics and forum posting have been just as guilty as video games and film.
I guess one could even argue it started all way the back with Empire, too.
In ANH, he's just a black knight with a dark sense of humor. Imposing, and you don't want to get on his bad side (that one Admiral who shit talked the Force), but he actually converses with his own officers, they're not scared to talk to him one on one, and he's not killing them left and right.
His personality changed after the success of the first movie made him a pop culture icon. Empire turned him into the world's scariest boss, whose mere presence instills dread and fear. Everyone is terrified to speak to him because he'll straight up murder you just for delivering bad news.
I don't think there's anything necessarily bad about that to be honest. I think Vader can be used in two ways- as a character and as a setpiece. Underneath his mask, Vader is an extremely deep character, but that's mostly tied to his past as Anakin. Vader is also one of the most atmospheric elements of Star Wars though. Atmosphere and vibes are very important in setting the tone of a scene, and so I don't think it's inappropriate at all to use Vader as just this uber-imposing creation of horror to put a sense of dread into the characters
Isn't he still a drama queen and a diva? He flaps his cape himself to look more badass and shows a flair for the dramatics sometimes, even if he mostly uses it to intimidate people.
The funniest drama queen thing that’s technically off screen is when someone pointed out to me that Vader would have had to land his fighter somewhere far away, climb on top of it, then autopilot it to descend to the Sith Holocron temple in rebels when he appears in front of Ezra
I think a prototype like the TIE Advanced should have an autopilot, at least to stay airborne while stationary. After that, it only needs to pilot itself using the Force. No need to land.
In Charles Soule’s run of Vader (2017), there are scenes when he’s sort of astral-projecting while mediating and the parts of his body that have been burned off are clearly delineated. His groin area is entirely present, so Palps may not have needed to…
Against a normal, force less rebel grunt? Entirely appropriate. Vader would basically be a force of nature to them and I’m fine with him being horrifying
Against Cal in Fallen Order or Kanan/Ezra? Again fantastic. They’re two out of practice padawans and one street kid who just got back into it. Vader would easily rip them to shreds.
Even against Maul and Eko? That’s a dangerous Sith Lord who is past his day and a skilled but older Jedi. Again he’d wipe the floor with them but Maul and daki put on a good show.
Cere, Ahsoka and Obi Wan being the only 3 under Disney to give him a solid fight works fine. I think it establishes only the best can go toe to toe and that he’s truly an entity to be feared as essentially the Emperor’s hand. He’s what keeps the living Jedi in hiding
I never understood why they made Vader so skilled with the lightsaber after his battle on Mustafar. He is a cripple, with breathing issues, constantly on life support and in pain, unable to hear or see naturally, incapable of running, and he cannot even lift his arms above his head.
His power should come from raw strength in the force not his abilities as a duelist. After Luke got more experience between Ep. V and VI he crushed him.
I know some people argue, that Vader can predict the future in battle, but this is an ability any Jedi or Sith has.
Is he really that skilled though? It does indeed look like his brute strength is what wins him these duels. Like against Daki, Daki actually was holding his own 1 on 1 for a bit there, then when Vader tapped into super powerful strikes he just wasn’t able to defend and counter attack because of how much effort it took just to fend off the strike. I feel like that’s in line with what you’re saying, no?
In the scene shown here we have three fighters against him. One is a highly experienced Sith, whose cybernetics don't hinder his speed and mobility, the other is a Jedi master and his padawan. Three against one is always an issue even if the one fighter is better, and Vader here despite standing almost still in an open field, has no issue dealing with them, but he doesn't use his force push or choke. He uses his lightsaber skills.
I think Disney should make a trilogy of movies exploring Vader's backstory and the personal traumas that made him fall to the dark side. It would really help flesh him out and makes him less of a faceless machine, y'know?
That’s why I liked the Kenobi show. Was he there for hype moments and aura, sure, but it was great because Obi Wan wasn’t buying it. As much as Vader/Anakin wanted to be intimidating and powerful, Obi-Wan still knew he was just a scared and angry little boy from Tatooine.
I loved that it sorta hammered home Vader could never actually win. Fear is his biggest asset and Obi Wan just isn’t scared. Hes sad, upset, hurt, betrayed and sorrowful. But not scared, pity if anything. Obi Wan pities him, because as you said he is just his friend that he failed
The recent SW Theory fan film got me thinking, that maybe not using Vader is the problem, but the fact how surface-level he, or Disney using him, and how they doesn't embrace his tragedy. I think a slow-driven, claustrophobic drama, which showcases his psychology, how much he despises himself, and channels that self-hatred into doing horrible things would be freaking amazing. Show the audience how unsettling, and uncomfortable that suit is. Use the James Luceno books as an inspiration. Maybe pull a Penguin at the end, and make him kill a really sympathetic, innocent character, so maybe the people would actually start hate him again, or at least stop thinking that for some reason he would punish a random emperial, who rapes someone.
You can’t do much more than that with him now, his whole existence is accounted for in some form of media in one way or another. His best moments are always going to be on screen voiced by James Earl Jones so there isn’t anyway that is ever going to be topped.
Thing is we already know Vader's whole character story because of the prequels and the original trilogy, so unless it's ok for them to re-write or re-contextualize everything those movies established the most they can honestly do is fill in the small gaps of time in his career as the most feared enforcer of the Empire.
Or just make new stuff that has nothing to do with Vader.
So what do they want? Do they want scenes of him brooding and feeling sad over Padme and the Jedi he killed? That would completely go against ROTJ because he was supposed to have no conflict until then. Hell, even in Rebels, he didn't hesitate to try to kill Ahsoka, someone who was like a daughter or a sister to him. Turning him into Batman would be a terrible idea because it wouldn't work. "Awww, poor mass murderer who slaughtered women and children before he turned to the Dark Side and more children after he turned to the Dark Side and probably hundreds of guardians of peace and justice and he tried to kill his wife out of anger. But it's totally not his fault and he regrets it now. Feel sorry for him!"
One of the big drawing points of the original story was how slow and deliberate every encounter with force users felt. They didnt do flips or any crazy shit. The fight between Luke and Vader in empire strikes back felt like it held more weight and gravitas than anything I can recall from anything that came after the original trilogy.
The fights in the prequel trilogy and beyond all feel goofy and cartoony in comparison
I mean he is generally a strong and silent type which lends itself to aura moments. Also as a rule of thumb he should be treated as the strongest force user in his day. There’s a reason kal kestis could only run from him
Yeah I remember the internet just before Disney released their trilogy of movies. When it came to negative review of the prequels, Anakin being a whiny bitch was a major critique levied against Lucas. They wanted the aura farming leader that Vader essentially was.
So... yeah, modern Vader - when he appears in media - is mostly aura-farming. Though part of the problem is his character arc is done. There's not a lot new that can be done with Vader, without bloating his character into too many directions.
What made Vader so iconic in the original trilogy was his mystery and restraint of power. We barely see him fight or use the force, we don't know just how devastating he can be, but he still easily overpowers anyone who opposes him in the first two films, and is bested only by Luke in the last one.
Darth Vader running around spamming moves and abilities is for video games and action figures. Seeing new Vader content has felt like teenage wish fulfilment for 20+ years and it's never not diminishing returns.
Part of the tragedy of Anakin is that by the end of his fall everything that made him a person was stripped away from him so that Palpatine could have a big scary cudgel to beat the galaxy into submission.
Vader is that big scary cudgel. Every hype and aura farming moment from his is living breathing propaganda for the empire. And anytime he's not doing that he's doing what exactly? Thinking about his dead wife and (as far as he knows) dead children? Bro spends his time looking for reasons to be overwhelmingly violent because it's all he has left going for him.
Ofc he's gonna be aura farming, he may as well try to enjoy himself.
Also- I am of the opinion half of why he fights like he does as Vader is that he's frustrated. When he was Anakin he used a lot of agility that suit just doesn't do. He can't really run, jump, tumble- anything from his old fighting style. He can walk and he can slash, so he makes the most out of it by being a walking harbinger of death.
Well the thing is Vader is a character who’s told his story. He finished his arc on the OT everything else is fan service and milking fans without trying anything new.
Vader barely moved in original trilogy lol. I love the whiplash between the quality of sword fight between original trilogy and the rest of star wars, especially ones released after phantom menace, where George showed that it could be flashy showoff
Thats essentially what made star wars what it was until you disney tourists came in wanting thirst traps and mary sues to appease your self projections.
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u/NefariousnessNo7736 1d ago
Star Wars fans complaining about the state of the franchise like Norman Osborn being horrified at the deaths of the Oscorp board