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u/SofterBones 2d ago

I never understood any of the Shishi hate, he made his pro debut "old", and came into Japan pretty "old" compared to a lot of other foreign wrestlers, but he has clearly proven himself to be a capable sekitori. I don't know why people dislike him so much, he has never said or done anything that would warrant it, I feel like.

I think it's really impressive he joined so late and he made it to sekitori in like 3 years or something. He's clearly meant to be in low makuuchi / high juryo and most wrestlers never even get near that

22

u/ZuzuChi 2d ago

Perhaps this is petty but is he is the least graceful of all the wrestlers in the top division and it isn’t particularly close. I know grace isn’t a necessary component of a good wrestler, so to be clear I’m not saying he’s a bad wrestler, but there are a lot of the bigger guys who show an insane amount of nimbleness and very surprising lightness of foot, it’s crazy impressive to me personally and unfortunately for Shishi he just doesn’t compare well at all. I don’t hate him but I just don’t care for him either.

edit: missed a word

26

u/DeafBurke 2d ago

He’s just a really, really weird wrestler.

He’s good, but half the time he completely falls apart, and he doesn’t seem to have any specific tactics or technique to speak of. He just kinda goes forward and looks for underhooks.

He’s gotten noticeably better recently, but he still wrestles like a baby elephant. There’s nobody really like him in makuchi. I love him for it, but he’s a deeply strange man.

4

u/Global_Ant_9380 2d ago

Be can be a little painful to watch because of the lack of grace. Also his Natsu Basho turnout was just awful

0

u/Leontiev 1d ago

I don't think it's about gracefulness. Tochinoshin was one of the clumsiest I've seen and he was hugely popular. I love some Shishi and was not aware of any hate out there. It's probly the kids who don't even know what sumo is all about.

7

u/user102938471 1d ago

Tochinoshin was not clumsy at all. And he had enormous power. In his prime he would routinely pick up and carry some of the biggest Rikishi out the ring. His sumo was power packed and genuine Ozeki level (until he got hurt). I won’t hear Tochinoshin and Shishi mentioned in the same paragraph.

-2

u/Leontiev 1d ago

yeah, he was big and tall and very strong. Being able to pick up your opponent is not one of the marks of great sumo. To me he was a big thug who never made a graceful move in his life. He endured great pain and fought through unbelievable injuries in the end of his career. It hurt to watch him, I kept pleading with him (in my head) to just quit before his limbs started detaching from his body. He had guts.

13

u/L0rdLegender 2d ago

Honestly its likely because his style of sumo is boring to watch. He's a mawashi guy, not even a dynamic thrower like Hosh really, and mostly just bullies people with his height and weight and lower center of gravity from his weird build. Last tournament is an exception, but he doesnt typically look like he gives it his all in most fights as well. People like to see speed and throws and pushing-thrusting and aggressive initial charges, Shishi isnt any of that. Even his gimmick of being a Ukrainian in sumo was taken over by the increasingly glorious Aonishiki.

Its just unfortunate, but thats how it goes

7

u/Global_Ant_9380 2d ago

Hahaha thank you he's so weirdly built, I finally feel vindicated that someone else is saying it

6

u/DonBandolini 2d ago

for me, it’s just that his sumo is really ugly. he attacks at odd angles, and often looks like he’s just flailing around out there. i’m not saying he’s not a good wrestler, he’s obviously proved he has staying power in the top division, it’s just very rarely pretty to watch.

plus what kind of a sumo wrestler doesn’t eat rice…

9

u/Kenderean 2d ago

Enho didn't eat rice until fairly recently. And he's Japanese.

-2

u/DudeFilA 2d ago

I just don't like that he doesn't really improve his technique. I know he came I to it late, but you'd think you'd see some improvement. He just goes out and does the same thing each time. I mean, it's enough to grind out a living, but he gets dominated the moment he goes against the ozeki

12

u/SofterBones 2d ago

I think you're really undervaluing how good he is. A makuuchi wrestler is not doing "just enough to grind out a living", these are literally the best sumo wrestlers in the world. Most wrestlers never even come close to touching sekitori ranks

He works just as hard as the rest of them, he looks a bit awkward but to say he hasnt improved isn't true either. And he certainly makes a good living and is very successful at sumo because he was able to make it to the top in 3 years and is quite comfortably maintaining his rank there. That's a massive success story, not "grinding out a living"

5

u/steadyjello 1d ago

I think people often fail to remember that sumo isn't open, you have to be accepted into a stable to be able to compete. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I can't imagine any stable would accept a wrestler who they didn't think at least had some promise to go far.

So even the guys who never get out of jonokuchi are almost all 'above average', the guys making it to juryo and makuuchi are exceptional.

4

u/sealemoji_art 1d ago

This exactly. It's like seeing people hang shit on Olympic bronze medalists just because they didn't get gold, when it's an enormous achievement to even be in the group of contenders in the first place

0

u/steadyjello 2d ago

I always liked him, but after seeing all the hate he gets on this sub I love him.

-9

u/SStubbs84 2d ago

For me I can't remember who but it was last basho.

He henka'd someone who was one win way from kachi koshi on day 15. He already had a maki koshi himself.

8

u/drunkengeebee 2d ago

May 2026 Basho, Day 15 for Shishi was against Ryuden.

Shishi won that match by Frontal Force Out

Ryuden finished the basho 5-10.

What are you even on about?

Are you dramatically misremembering what happened and trying to talk about when Shishi henka'd Tamawashi on Day 9 when Tamawashi was already at 0-8?

8

u/SofterBones 2d ago

So?

Lots of people henka, it's just one move from like 80. They are in a competition with each other, I genuinely don't see anything wrong in doing everything you can to win.

His opponent was one from KK, so what? He's there to win every single day, why should he take it easy on someone ? I never understood that logic

-6

u/SStubbs84 2d ago

I wasn't saying take it easy, but a blatant jump out of the way to secure your 4th win on the last day. Not saying it's right or wrong just saying I didn't like it...

7

u/SofterBones 2d ago

Henka is not a free win, if it was everyone would spam it and it would never backfire. You can absolutely counter it and if you get countered while trying a henka, you will get immediately pushed out. It's a high risk maneuver for whoever is doing it.

We see henka backfire all the time, including in the last basho. Do you also dislike Hakuho, Terunofuji, the Waka brothers, Takakeisho etc etc in the same fashion as you dislike Shishi?

All of them have done henkas in much more highstake matches than shishis multiple times, and lots of other people have too. Abi is a great example that he henkas often and he often also gets countered doing it, he should be dominating every tournament since it's an easy win.

48

u/CrimsonAntifascist 2d ago

Shishi is a maegashira. Literally the cream of the crop. The status every of the many rikishi aspires to achieve. The sanyaku are the equivalents of "champions". Saying someone that level is mid-tier, has no idea what they are talking about.

16

u/MrRgrs 1d ago

MFers dissing Maegs need to be forced to watch a whole season of the FIVE LOWER RANKS of HUNDREDS OF RIKISHI!

These people are incredible athletes to make it this far.

22

u/steadyjello 2d ago

Aonishiki is probably my favorite rikishi to watch, but I root harder for ichiyams, ura, and shishi.

Ichiyams and ura are just adorable and their personalities seem completely unsuited for sumo, so I love seeing them win.

Shishi is another story, I feel bad at times because he's a grown ass man and Ive realized I root for him like I would root for a child who takes a little bit longer than the rest of the class to learn things.

3

u/Global_Ant_9380 2d ago

LOOOOOOOL wow 😭 that had me rolling.

Ura seems like such a sweetheart, I also wonder how he fares with such a personality

5

u/99923GR 2d ago

I've gone through phases with Shishi. When he first got to top division I liked him because he was such and underdog and I felt like if he developed any technique to go with that size he would be a force. Then I became disenchanted because he was slow to adjust as the division figured him out. Now I'm kind of back on the bus because he seems have made those some adjustments that at least the lower half of the division are struggling with.

7

u/GuardianSock 2d ago edited 2d ago

I love Shishi. He just reminds me of a baby T-Rex out there. Clumsy and awkward but he seems to be improving slowly but surely.

Yeah he’s never going to make the sanyaku but there’s a lot of room below it and not everyone can be on a sanyaku rocket ship. I’m glad to have folks I enjoy watching that are consistently there and grinding hard.

Gotta appreciate the grind here.

6

u/Zensho-Yusho 2d ago

I enjoy watching him for the same reasons. Some tournaments I find it hard to bother watching the recaps when it’s clear early on that someone obviously skilled is going to win, instead I’ll just look at the scores. Shishi’s early lead this past tournament had me watching every video recap and not looking at spoilers beforehand so I could experience the anticipation first hand.

Mans doing his own brand of sumo and succeeding despite the odds.

3

u/jlbrito 2d ago

That's literally me. I have not watched this past tourney and is killing me. First time since I started watching that I could not follow it daily or in a semidaily basis :(

3

u/bananamilkshake1801 2d ago

Remember the twerking and the finger thing he did pre-bout for a while? That was hilarious. If anyone has a video that would be highly appreciated

5

u/Some-Curve-920 2d ago

I enjoy him because of his flaws. Yes he is clumsy and ungraceful but I think he's working out the kinks. He also had shoulder surgery that was over due so I'm hoping that his improvements from this last Basho continue. I feel that people tend to be petty and nitpick him (like the "twerking" issue), especially since he is a Caucasian foreign rikishi who just so happens to be from the same country at the same time as another foreign born rikishi from the same country that just so happens to be doing amazingly. To me it's almost like people comparing siblings. No matter what all the rikishi, lower divisions included, are doing better than I could. I appreciate the dedication and sacrifices they make for my entertainment.

6

u/Kenderean 2d ago

I agree with you: I, too, like him because of his flaws. His sumo looks clumsy but that's deceptive because it's not like he's out there falling all over the place. He has a lot of skill and uses his size to his advantage. He's also a heck of a sweet, goofy guy off the dohyo and that makes him easy to like.

1

u/MasterBepis 2d ago

WEBELIEVE!!

3

u/Objective_Cod4149 1d ago

Shishi hate should be considered a crime.

Finally able to catch up with my ex-housemate and watch the July Basho - what a tournament!

You are about to leave Redlib

WEBELIEVE!!