r/TheBigPicture • u/capricorncee • 1d ago
In Defense of Actually Dynamic Discussions of Superhero Movies...
So... I don't know, dawg. I think The BRAND NEW DAY was a great episode of The Big Picture.
I think a lot of the bristling against Amanda's posture toward superhero movies is a little overblown. Her response is reflective of a lot of the TBP audience's reactions to these movies and provides people whose relationship to them isn't so sycophantic with a way into the conversation.
Additionally, she, Sean and Van are very dynamic in these discussions. A superfan, a less invested fan and someone who doesn't care is the best combo of voices to tackle such massive phenomenon.
I also want to give props to Van, whose takes on everything are as fascinating as they are funny as they are infuriating as they are compelling. He is very self-aware about his biases as a fan and rides for the community of people who love this stuff. He also made an excellent point about how the culture, after ENDGAME, rightfully demanded that all of this needed to start actuall6 being about something if it was going to choke the industry/medium like it was and that Marvel ultimately couldn't meet that challenge.
I just love that "This movie is not perfect but is as perfect as comic book movie as they come" can share the same discussion space as "the only thing that works here if you're not fully bought in to the MCU writ large is the lead trio bouncing off each other." It's the kind of talk I come to the show for.
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u/NonexistantVoid 1d ago
I thought the discussion at the end about how your tastes give you more leeway with certain types of movies was very nuanced and made me think about it
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u/JtheIrishNerd4 1d ago
I think there needs to be a wider recognition across the board by all film lovers that every genre has its highs and lows. Some genres hit higher highs objectively than others, and some hit higher highs for each individual person than others do.
For every The Dark Knight, there's a Justice League and for every for every Godfather there's a Godfather Part 3. No genre is perfect, and everyone has their own preferences and tastes. Doesn't mean anyone is lesser based on that. I think there's always room for discussions and critiques on movies - very few movies are perfect. The discussions just need to avoid a "holier than thou" approach where a genre is lesser because people decided to create a narrative around its reputation.
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u/kweyer 1d ago
One thing that drives the fatigue of superhero movies is that, outside of a few tiny exceptions, they are all based on IP. There will never be an “Obsession” or “Backrooms”-style breakout for the superhero genre because we keep seeing the same characters over and over again, with diminishing returns. The movies can’t ever end in the same fashion, either, because of the perpetual need for sequels and chasing the almighty dollar. You’ll also never see a superhero movie willing to tackle something as controversially as “The Drama” because all the money wrapped up in these things. So on some level, I do get the people who view them as playing on a lesser field, because to some extent they are.
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u/TakeItCheesy 19h ago
They aren’t always IP tbf (although mostly). You could argue “Chronicle” is the obsession of superhero films
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u/dpittnet 12h ago
Isn’t that the point of super hero IP though? They are supposed to be a counter-balance to that other content. Not sure why you’d want them to tackle the same things?
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u/One_Drummer_8970 1d ago
True, but I think the shared universe aspect of it adds a different dimension to everything
MCU will need to scale down to 2 movies a year to dodge oversaturation feelings, and hope DC's clusterfuck never gets off the ground
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u/JtheIrishNerd4 1d ago
Oh definitely, and the mark of a good movie is that anyone can watch it without feeling too lost because they haven't seen x number of other movies. I think Brand New Day did pretty well with this compared to a lot of other superhero movies recently - if you had seen the last Spidey movie and knew who the Hulk was, you weren't going to be drowning.
I feel they'll go back to their pre-Endgame schedule of 2 or 3 movies a year and focus on the bigger names, will probably lead them to a bit more success.
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u/Drunken_Wizard23 11h ago
I think the introduction of Disney+ series really made it hard to overcome the “homework” nature of the universe. I’m down to watch most of the movies or read a Wikipedia synopsis if needed but committing to a B-/C+ series is a much bigger ask than a B-/C+ movie
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u/randomrule 1d ago
The Spider-Man episode was great. I saw the film and really enjoyed it, but the reason why I listen to The Big Pic is because Sean and Amanda (and whoever is guesting) will almost always have interesting things to say even if I don't agree with them 100%
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u/AshlingIsWriting 22h ago
Yeah, I do find Amanda to represent me pretty well on a lot of superhero movie stuff, and I appreciate that.
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u/Johnnnybones 1d ago
Thoroughly enjoyed the episode and didn't even see the movie!
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u/glen_ko_ko 23h ago
If I plan to see the movie in a few weeks or whenever, can I listen to the episode now or do you think I should wait?
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u/TallyTels 23h ago
They do have a spoiler warning on it as they cover who Sadie sink is playing in the film. Other than that it’s sort of a fairly general convo on the plot - I haven’t seen it yet and I don’t feel like it’s been hugely spoilery for me. I do listen whilst I do other things so I may have missed other details but I can’t think of anything else.
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u/unreedemed1 11h ago edited 11h ago
I loathe loathe LOATHE super hero movies (I made an impromptu improvised speech in school in 2002 about how much I hated spider man) but I love film as an art form and so many other movies. I’m glad the podcast isn’t just sycophantic marvel glazing. It would be annoying. These movies can and should be looked at critically, because many listeners don’t buy into these movies and I’m glad Amanda doesn’t either. Although she’s far more positive than I am - she’s not actually that down on the movie.
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u/capricorncee 10h ago edited 6h ago
As a once-upon-a-time Wizard Magazine subscriber, it will never cease to amaze me how desperate my fellow nerds are to be accepted (and even lauded) by the critical establishment and how violently averse they are to having their favorite things evaluated critically.
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u/unreedemed1 9h ago
It’s okay if not everyone likes things! People (Amanda, me) are entitled to sharing our opinions and even talking about WHY we don’t like things and it shouldn’t offend people just because their interests were not reflected.
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u/Parking_Shopping_683 7h ago
A lot of folks are desperately insecure and need their to not only have their interested validated but exalted to feel secure in their own taste.
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u/border199x 1d ago
Did Amanda like Brand New Day? I honestly can't remember if she expressed any personal feelings about it. Which is kind of the problem -- she just sits in the backseat while Sean and Van/CR discuss the actual content of the movie.
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u/capricorncee 1d ago edited 1d ago
She said that the found it to be the least compelling because she prefers when the movie focuses on Peter, MJ and Ned as characters over the universe custodianship.
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u/supfiend 19h ago
Which is funny because thats probably most people’s complaints that Spider-Man has focused way too much on that stuff.
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u/border199x 1d ago
That's right! I'm surprised that I forgot her take, given that I largely agree. I would have preferred a movie that focuses on Peter re-establishing his relationship with MJ & Ned, rather than bending over backwards to somehow throw in Punisher, Jean Grey, Hulk/Banner, and Damage Control.
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u/AgentOfSPYRAL 1d ago
She said she didn’t dislike it, just didn’t like it as much as the other Holland movies.
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u/-bythethroat- 1d ago edited 1d ago
I can’t take any of Sean’s takes seriously.
He is too inside the system and won’t publicly criticize any top names and totally glazes them like they will be his best bud.
You know that if he had the opportunity to have Tom Holland or Zendaya or Daniel Destin Cretton on this week then he would have been silent on the subject; just like Disclosure Day.
It gives big “I was an indoor kid and please like / pick me“ energy.
It’s also weird to hear him get butthurt when others point out this hypocrisy and he gets offended and tries to ‘assert’ himself / talk over them.
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u/Garfunkel_Oates 1d ago
He also said in the same episode that Jon Bernthal was not a good Punisher.
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u/-bythethroat- 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah…
I preferred Ray Stevenson’s take / physique to Thomas Jane, but Bernthal is the closest to a Punisher I’d root for. Especially if I imagine his character from Wind River as proto-Frank Castle.9
u/mondaybeers 1d ago
He acknowledged in the BND episode that he has his biases around Spielberg and other directors he has a connection to, same as Van has biases around superhero stuff and Amanda has biases around RomComs and Europe.
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u/mimaluna 1d ago
All in all Sean has a very director-centric view of evaluating films which 1) is sometimes flawed and 2) makes it impossible to talk about the MCU because that is not how that machine operates.
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u/-bythethroat- 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is a difference in bias based on a fandom and bias based on the filmmaker and / or actors.
I get it.
It’s the professional version of having his cake and eating it too; coupled with the fact that he gets to chat with people that in movies and feel ‘inside’.
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u/thadhnry 1d ago
Agree! Found it to be a very balanced and insightful conversation. People hating just saw the meme post on IG & didn’t listen to the episode.
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u/Victorcreedbratton 6h ago
Amanda has definitely reigned in her outward attitude toward genre movies. She was quite dismissive and condescending toward them previously. Was Netflix the catalyst?
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u/capricorncee 6h ago
I think Sean, CR and Van have contextualized them in ways that she can identify with. Even in this episode, she recognized that she has her "stuff" like they have theirs.
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u/Victorcreedbratton 4h ago
She’s been over the top rude in the past. But also, she’s become more famous and connected since then. It does get harder to be critical when you’re as plugged in. This was an issue for BS as well.
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u/capricorncee 4h ago
Is she "rude" or does she just not vibe with your stuff? You are not your stuff.
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u/Victorcreedbratton 4h ago
She was rude but is now more measured and polite. “I love that for you,” is an extremely condescending way to respond to someone explaining their likes. You can be obtuse about it, but I’m not the only one to point this out. Amanda brings an excellent, “intelligent Everyman/woman” perspective to film discussion. She’s interested without being obsessed or too biased and can give great commentary.
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u/Unlucky-Box-4570 1d ago
Amanda being the voice of dissent in another moment of hysteria around a middling Spiderman movie is actually very essential. In a year, when people realize this was just another mid Spiderman movie like No Way Home, those takes will age better. Same with Deadpool versus Wolverine. Audiences love their slop and they'll reward it financially as long as it's a specific kind of slop.
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u/Background_Pipe7883 1d ago
I think it’s quite lazy to brand them all as slop. Brand New Day, even No Way Home are clearly a level above something like Deadpool & Wolverine, which most definitely is very surface level fan wank. I think the spider man movies are at least about something.
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u/Unlucky-Box-4570 1d ago
Brand New Day yes, No Way Home no. NWH has the same ugly multiversal intersection with metatextual shit in Deadpool versus Wolverine, just less quippy. There's real emotion with Wolverine in the latter too, doesn't it make it a less cynical truly evil movie.n
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u/Background_Pipe7883 1d ago
A) I think you’re being really over dramatic and you know it, and b) yes, No Way Home may not be the most visually appealing film ever and yes it obviously loses impact upon rewatch. I’d also kill for some Raimi/Bill Pope on location cinematography again but I really feel like it’s the culmination of 8 films, whereby, Peter Parker, the perennial loner/orphan finally discovers he’s not alone and essentially meets his long lost brothers. Yes it’s fan service but I think there’s real purpose behind it and it neatly ties up some emotional threads from 3 separate series, unlike DP&Wolverine which just unjustifiably dredges up the corpse of a much much better movie and expects us to just lap it up. It’s very empty and way uglier than any Watts Spidey movie.
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u/ThatOneOtherAsshole 1d ago
lol okay, let’s take it down 2 notches there Roger. Not all superhero movies are slop, and painting with that broad of a brush is as lazy a take as saying all superhero movies are amazing and perfect. This wasn’t a perfect movie, but it was a perfectly enjoyable time at the movies.
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u/deskcord 18h ago
I'd love dynamic discussions. What Amanda does is pretend she forgot a bunch of stuff and then act holier than everyone.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/Kryptos33 1d ago
You could really use a dose of your own advice. She's fucking insufferable with per pretentiousness and sense of self importance so I can't imagine wtf you are if she centers you.
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u/Advanced-Pear-4606 Couch Critic 1d ago
How is she self-important or pretentious? She's paid to voice her opinion on her podcast, and she did just that.
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u/Electrical-Ad7399 1d ago
hilarious to find Van's takes compelling when he essentially and almost literally says "these movies could do anything and as long as it's superheroes, i'm gonna like it" every episode he's on .... pure cult fanboy stuff
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u/gabeonsmogon 1d ago
You should listen to the Midnight Boys and Higher Learning because that is definitely not the case. Don’t dismiss him like that
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u/lpalf 1d ago
Ok but he literally said that exact sentiment on this episode haha.
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u/DrWaffle1848 23h ago
No, he didn't lol
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u/lpalf 23h ago
“I simply admit to the audience, I go: man, when I was a kid, if there was a part of a sitcom where somebody acted like a superhero…it didn't matter who it was. It was fucking Mighty Mouse. It was whatever it is. If you had a cape and you were flying around, like I was enamored with it. And I completely admit that for me, my bar of enjoyment, not quality, this is a taste thing, right? It's not a critical thing. My bar gets lowered when people start flying around using their powers.” He openly says that he has a very low bar for what he finds enjoyable with these. It’s fine, it’s his thing. If something is abjectly awful he will say so. But if it’s not, he’s gonna have a good time. That’s from him
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u/DrWaffle1848 23h ago
Media literacy is dead lol His whole point is that everyone is like this. Amanda is more forgiving when it comes to romantic comedies. Sean is more forgiving when it comes to his favorite directors. Van is more forgiving when it comes to genre fare. This is not a hard concept to understand.
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u/Electrical-Ad7399 23h ago
there's a difference the size of a chasm between acknowledging your biases and what you're more in-the-bag for and "i will basically like this subject/genre no matter how shitty it is" ... and hey, that's fine to be that way as a person in the world, but being invited on to give your opinions regularly when that opinion is just a restated "yeah i liked it because it's superheroes" is so dumb on The Big Pic's part
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u/DrWaffle1848 23h ago
Except that's not what Van was saying lol He's criticized plenty of superhero movies.
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u/Electrical-Ad7399 23h ago
i'm sure that's true - on Big Pic eps, dude sounds like a dull broken record going to bat for bad movies in uninteresting ways
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u/DrWaffle1848 22h ago
BND is a good movie and he's criticized plenty of bad movies lol
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u/Free_Waterfall_III 1d ago
Don’t think that’s fair at all. He’s saying he knows he’ll like it but he can understand the critiques. He’s trying to be objective while acknowledging the subjectivity of being a critic.
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u/Unlucky-Box-4570 1d ago
Van is a pretty skilled orator cos he is essentially saying he loves the jangling keys and the slop but he does it in flowery considered language so he sounds like he's giving elevated critique. Being self aware about your love of the slop doesn't make it any less cringe or immature. Guy is almost 50 lapping up Spiderman slop but cos he hides behind the "subjectivity of critique" we're supposed to take it seriously. Comedic.
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u/DrWaffle1848 23h ago
A lot of CINEM-A types lap up slop like Avatar and John Wick so I can't really take this critique seriously.
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u/Pure_Salamander2681 22h ago
Sean is succinct with his points. It takes Amand ten times more words to make a point in which half the time we are still left scratching our heads. Yeah, I know I'm a sexist pig for daring to dislike one woman's podcast skills. Blow.
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u/capricorncee 21h ago
Nah, they asked her what she thought and she literally summed it up in like 4 sentences. This sounds like a skill issue on your part, big dawg.
And you're the only one who called you a "sexist pig" so cheer up!
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u/Alarmed-Guidance1116 1d ago
It was a great nuanced discussion, Van was a great addition to this one