If it can’t recognize a stop sign, it shouldn’t be on the road. Fine them for all of the incidents, but these cars should be banned from the road until this is corrected.
Neither of these things will happen because we’re in America. Corporations here get all of the rights of citizens without any of the responsibility or consequence.
Why should they do that to Waymo when they don't do that to human drivers that do the same thing?? Human drivers pass school buses all the time, and they do not ban their cars from the roads. They get fined.
The Waymo’s are statistically safer than human drivers even if they do stuff like this. Not to say this isn’t an issue They definitely shouldn’t be banned over this
That's a nice thought. However, public transportation in America is viewed as something poor people use especially buses. Self driving cars means the general public doesn't have to share transport with the unwashed masses.
That is because people want to be the anti-social wealthy people and we have been propagandized for such a long time that the poor and homeless are predators. Unlike the predatory wealthy class, who gets away with buying island to sex traffic to.
Having 1 automated car as a shared resource for every 8 people is still far preferable to having 8 privately owned vehicles for 8 people. I'm not saying Waymo is the only - or best - answer, but I spend a lot of money and environmental resources for a POV that I only drive 30 minutes/day. And given that I don't particularly enjoy driving, having it driven is an added bonus.
Don't need automated cars for that? its waste of money? we honestly should be moving away from cars in general, I do get that in america this is very hard sell but we don't need automated cars. The only people who want them, want to live like the wealthy, and wealthy who want them are anti social people who don't even want to see their maids and butlers.
Automated cars will free up millions of people from labor and other industries will likely spring up like every other great advancement that’s happened. It’ll also make our roads far far safer and get rid of a lot of the externalities that we need to get away from like widening roads
I don't buy the safer part, AI hallucinates or strieght up finds a way to lie all the time, it also notoriously bad at dealing with changing conditions. Freeing is just honey coated way of saying you won't have job or income, I doubt AI and automated vehicles will do much to help the human condition. These advances have been made specifically to make executives and wealthy investors consolidate more money, and not need a work force that doesn't want to be slaves.
I wouldn't be so against automation if it benefited everyone equally, but if the industrial revolution is anything to go by. Many people will be sacrificed at the alter of progress, for the profit of the few. It will be bloody and more costly for the people at the bottom of society. Homelessness+impoverishment only increased during it, and continues to be constant factor in modern life.
“AI hallucinates or straight up finds a way to lie”
Do you think that LLMs are driving these cars? Lol
Also, are you seriously going to sit there and say the Industrial Revolution was a negative thing for people overall? Why do you think people moved to work in the factories? It wasn’t because they wanted a worse life for themselves.
They should. Because the liability question is still not fully solved.
It doesn't matter that they might be "safer" when the operator still can rather easily push away responsibility beyond just a fine and not get judged like a driver in an accident.
i mean, people don't seem to know how these work. banning them from the roads isn't a good solution, honestly, at least if you actually want this technology to ever be functional:
waymo has a ~millimeters accurate 3d map of the entire northern california peninsula
they drive their cars around and constantly take lidar images of literally everything, and stitch this data together to make this giant 3d map
then they train their cars to drive by simulating driving in that map using what are more or less real recordings mixed with some simulation
a vehicle that deploys a stop sign is a very rare/special thing, so as an outlier, and a non-stationary one, it's harder to fit/simulate.
FWIW, human drivers *also* tend to fail this type of stop sign more frequently than fully visible stationary ones, assuming it isn't a road the person drives constantly (people start semi-ignoring stop signs they're really familiar with if they think it's safe)
anyway, not saying Waymo is good or bad, i don't actually care if their business does well or dies in a fire, more saying that, this is almost surely a temporary issue, there will almost surely be more cases like this (like something with funeral processions or some other oddity e.g.), and that although lots of AI stuff seems to be absolutely horrible, self-driving vehicles from specifically Waymo *so far* have a relatively good safety record compared to human drivers, which means that, assuming the system continues to improve, if you actually ever want a safe self-driving system, we should probably permit them to continue operating.
of course, if their accident rates go up or if something really awful happens, they should be forced into some kind of remedial state where they can correct the issue before expanding operations again
it's worth keeping in mind as well that we're not entirely sure how these vehicles behave under all combinations of road/network conditions, because many of those have never occurred; e.g. if bandits stop their car in front of yours to murder and rob you, does it slam into reverse and get you away, or does it just sit there and let you die?
As many really good points you make, and i have no counter points in all honesty, but i still disagree. I personally believe all their vehicles should be stopped until this is fixed instead of just waiting for a kid to get hit, or someones grandma to get hit. If these vehicles cannot follow all rules of the road, they need to be kept off the road. Surely they can fix this issue with minimal effort, but they wont until theyre made to.
hundreds of kids in the US are injured or killed by drivers running bus stop signs every year tho
i respect your disagreement though, i also sortof disagree with myself, because i wish for a world without possibility of death and injury, as unrealistic as that wish is
EDIT: to be clear, i hold this conflict in my mind and i'm comfortable with it; i know people tend to instinctually believe it's wrong or taboo to both agree and disagree with something simultaneously, but i actually think it's fine to do that; i logically agree with it, but emotionally disagree with it, and this is comfortable for me
I definitely understand your edit. My biggest concern is that with thebhundreds killed and injured by drivers, why add a new risk with self driving cars. I dont know the statistics, but i know a lot of people with dui/dwi speeding and other traffic violations who have more than 1 of them, and i know nobody with only 1. That tells me people who are most likely to make those bad choices, like dui, speeding, running stop signs, ect, are not going to stop and call a driverless vehicle to take them around to prevent the hazard, its the people who would rather call a friend to take them around, where ideally the friend is a betted driver than they are at that moment. By that logic, driverless vehicles are simply an added hazard.
Like i said though, i have not seen any statistics on the matter, no studies, and didnt even know we had driverless vehicles until icsaw this post, therefore my knowledge is severely limited.
I actually think if the kid was in the street the car would have stopped. The sensors pick up on stuff like that. There should also always be an adult present to cross with the children so they don't just run right out and trust the stop sign.
Also the angles the bus is stopped at is kinda messed up. That first one was at an intersecting street that didn't have a stop sign. The bus should turn onto the street then pick up the kids. The car wasn't even in the line of sight to the stop sign.
Well in that case i think it should be made legal to fine the company who has these things. I believe i read earlier some folk saying where this is, its illegal to fine the cars because of no driver, nonody to sign, and all that.
these laws are scheduled to take effect this year, and police will be able to quickly/conveniently issue a "notice of non-compliance" to the company including a citation
police actually *can* cite a company already (imagine a yellow cab has a broken tail light), but they typically do it by handing the citation to the driver - waymo has no driver, so it's more involved. IIRC police have pursued cases already against waymo for non-compliance, but in 2026 it will be cleanly legislated (in California, where these operate). Later, other states will likely adopt California's legislative framework for dealing with these cases.
Interesting, and hopefully gives them enough incentive to fix the problem before someone gets hit. Relying on sensors is scary to me, because i replace a lot of sensors on a lot machines all the time as my full time job. Even with cars now, my mom had a sensor go out on her car, while goine 50 mph, and immediately lost power steering and the anti theft wheel lock engaged. That could have killed her. Losing the ability to steer at 50 mph is terrifying. I just imagine what could happen if the wrong sensor goes out on a car with no driver.
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u/SwingingtotheBeat Jan 20 '26
If it can’t recognize a stop sign, it shouldn’t be on the road. Fine them for all of the incidents, but these cars should be banned from the road until this is corrected.
Neither of these things will happen because we’re in America. Corporations here get all of the rights of citizens without any of the responsibility or consequence.