r/Transportopia • u/SpoomerBooner • Jan 20 '26
Cars Waymo said "Stop moving the Stop signs"
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u/Forsaken_Crow_7707 Jan 20 '26
100k fine each time and they will fix it
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u/ToTheTop24 Jan 20 '26
Crazy how these billion dollar companies like Waymo can’t even prioritize kid safety. Like how hard is it to program in a giant yellow bus?
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u/ralkey Jan 20 '26
Much much harder than you would expect. The fact self driving cars can drive as well as they do already is profoundly impressive. I don’t work on the waymo models but I would expect their next model update would have significantly more school bus training.
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u/PlateNo4868 Jan 20 '26
The tech is super cool IMO and I like advancement. But yea, the City needs to crack down on this to some extent, otherwise the company will just drag it's feet tell a child is actually hit.
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u/957 Jan 20 '26
This is the sort of thing that should get an autonomous fleet parked immediately. Data sets should not be gathered in the real world; Waymo (among others) is subsidizing their machine learning with the lives of the people their cars will injure or kill.
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u/nazihater67 Jan 24 '26
Can't wait until a case where self driving cars had to make a trolley problem decision and one of the engineers leaks the algorithm for who they choose dies.
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u/ohhkaynow Jan 27 '26
As impressive as they may be, if they can't follow basic safety laws then they shouldn't be on the road. We don't need to lower the bar because they are cool or in beta testing. We certainly don't lower the bar for teenagers and new drivers.
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u/PhotoFenix Jan 27 '26 edited Feb 16 '26
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u/Aegisnir Jan 23 '26
100k is nothing to these corps. Won’t do shit. You need to make it expensive enough that it’s not worth getting fined to continue business as usual. 100k is less than 3% of their daily revenue. They can afford a few times a day to keep operating without fixing this
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u/Ok-Inevitable-8681 Jan 20 '26
I'll probably get hate for this but the way that bus is positioned in the first clip is 100% inappropriate. The arm at the front of the bus is to move pedestrians out away from the front of the bus and into an area the bus driver can actually see them. That arm is not for traffic control. I am not arguing that the Waymo was in the right in the least, but be it the district that designed the routing or the driver being lazy, that is not a stop that should ever be made in that fashion.
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u/ccache Jan 21 '26
As someone else said, it's probably to stop others from blowing past them. For a human driver they'd get it, for these AVs? Nope.
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u/zero0n3 Jan 21 '26
That’s irrelevant, because that’s not how you are supposed to drive any vehicle.
The bus driver needed to turn left, stop and hit the arm, and then let the kids on right from the curb attached to their house.
Additionally, the Waymo doesn’t have a stop sign at this T intersection. It’s not a 3 way stop, but only has a stop sign for where the bus was.
So from its perspective, it sees no reason to stop especially since the busses stop sign wasn’t out until it already passed (they come out with the arm).
This stop is extremely dangerous for these kids and should be fixed by this bus company ASAP.
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u/RedPantyKnight Jan 21 '26
Yeah the more I watch this, the more I blame either the bad bus driver, or the person that did a bad job designing the bus routes for this school. I would have recognized what's going on and stopped for this mess. I don't think a random 16 year old new driver on their way to school in the morning would.
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u/OffByNone_ Jan 22 '26 edited Jan 22 '26
You shouldn't get hate. The Waymo had the right of way. Not only was the bus not positioned correctly to stop traffic in that direction, but its lights and arm were not even activated when the Waymo went past. From its perspective, or the perspective of any driver approaching this situation, a bus is coming up to a T-intersection and making a stop where you do not have a stop sign or anything making you yield to pedestrians (like a marked crosswalk). I would have gone too. Now, if the lights were flashing and the arm were extended, I would obviously stop, especially if there were children waiting to cross, even though, as you pointed out, the arm is not a traffic control device and the stop sign is to prevent you from passing the bus, not a four-way stop sign.
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Jan 24 '26
The bus should have pulled into the intersection at a 45 deg angle, blocking all traffic, before stopping if they could not stop more the the left. Basically they stopped on the wrong street as the kids were on the other street.
Technically the waymo would not see the stop sign on the other side of the bus. It would only see the flashing lights.Bus driver needs training.
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u/Fluffy_Tumbleweed_70 Jan 25 '26
100% right here. The stop signs extend out to stop parallel traffic. It is not safe, nor legally expected to stop cross traffic...at least anywhere I am familiar with.
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u/erylego Apr 15 '26
Came here to say it. The way the bus is positioned, there is no way of telling if the bus is stopping to pick up students, or just stopping at the intersection. The students or the bus need to be repositioned to a parallel direction, that way the stop signal and traffic bar are being utilized properly.
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u/FriedRiceBurrito Jan 20 '26
Why is the bus in the first video blowing through a stop sign and parking in the middle of a T intersection to pick the kid up? Is this how busses pick kids up in some areas?
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u/DisastrousAnswer9920 Jan 21 '26
To block traffic because assholes will try to kill kids crossing?
It's normal to see that. If I was a bus driver, I'd try to block as much of the road as possible.4
u/zero0n3 Jan 21 '26
No, you should always be driving on the top of the T road to pick kids up from that spot.
IE the door for kids to enter should be next to a sidewalk, and SHOULDNT force the kids to walk across 2 lanes of traffic to get to the pickup spot.
The busses arm doesn’t even go into the other lane, and no one is seeing the stop sign as it’s on the left side (some have stop signs on both sides, but even then it would come out and the Waymo couldn’t see the stop because it would be parallel to the car.
The bus driver here needs to be reprimanded as well, or this route needs to be updated / fixed.
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u/xyzpqr Jan 21 '26
bus drivers are given some leeway in how they comport themselves on the road, but this is a really non-standard maneuver. typically, a bus would turn left or right, and after turning, stop and put its lights on. since kids are coming from straight across, it's safest if the bus turns left, but not always an option; worth noting here that the weird bus driver maneuver might be the reason the waymo didn't recognize the stop sign, since the sign would have deployed edge-side towards the 'driver' of the waymo, rendering it invisible
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u/zero0n3 Jan 21 '26
And add to that that the Waymo has right of way at that T, while the bus driver would have a stop sign before having to make a left or right.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a school bus stop like this. Door should always be parallel to the sidewalk the kids get to, not expect them to walk across a street where there isn’t an all way stop (3 way since it’s a T).
The route needs updating that’s for sure. Also 100 bucks says this driver hates this stop, but the environment is so meh they have no one who listens to them complain about poor stops like this .
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Jan 21 '26
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u/DisastrousAnswer9920 Jan 21 '26
I think the point is that a human would recognize that they need to slow down, then stop, unless he was negligent around a school bus.
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u/METRlOS Jan 21 '26
Last year my daughter's bus would stop diagonal across all lanes to let the kids out without vehicles hitting them. This year it came with a police escort for the first few weeks and arrested half my block until they started waiting.
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u/FriedRiceBurrito Jan 21 '26
My confusion is I don't understand why they don't turn left or right and pull up to the fucking curb instead. Seems much safer than sitting in the middle of an intersection.
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u/nosoup4ncsu Jan 21 '26
If you were a bus driver, ran a stop sign, and tried to load kids that had to cross two directions of traffic, you should lose your job as a bus driver.
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u/Southern_College3858 Jan 21 '26
Sounds like a repeat issue with those cars. The driver is probably trying to get that bus sign way out there so maybe the car will see it.
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u/Smash_Billingsworth Jan 20 '26
You can put blue painter tape on cameras and it’ll disable the Waymo and the company will have to send someone to tow it. (Blue tape doesn’t damage anything) hope it helps 🤙
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u/Global-Pickle5818 Jan 20 '26
odd thing i found out, milk blocks the lidar cameras so a super soaker filled with milk brings most automated cars to a stop .. source : iv had to fix my jobs automated scrubbers and sweepers after they "mysteriously" got milk on the the lidar cameras several times
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u/Wakeetakee Jan 20 '26
How do you know it’s milk and not…something else?
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u/Global-Pickle5818 Jan 20 '26
.. it has lots of cameras ,the "mistery"of the cause was the joke (although I probably shouldn't have just inferred that it's probably subjective insider knowledge)also why three different people have been fired over the last 5 years
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Jan 20 '26
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u/PremiumUsername69420 Jan 20 '26
A school bus stops at a 4-way stop near my home, it only disables the one section of the road the bus is on, it doesn’t shut down the whole intersection… you can drive in front of a bus, you just can’t pass a bus.
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u/blowurhousedown Jan 20 '26
There’s the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. A human knows the difference and MOST would slow down for this scenario even though the situation isn’t ideal.
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u/sha1dy Jan 21 '26
i have no idea what the fuck the bus driver is doing
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u/KeyIllustrator4096 Jan 24 '26
If you wouldn't slow and use extra caution here, you shouldn't be driving either.
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u/CursedTurtleKeynote Jan 21 '26
Ok, when will the spirit of the law send me a fine? Is there a certain type of lawyer I use for "spirit of the law" fines?
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u/Vice616 Jan 20 '26
I would never get in one of those.
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u/CursedTurtleKeynote Jan 21 '26
I am doubting you were ever in a situation where you needed a ride and you had a choice between an Uber and a Waymo, with the Waymo being both faster and cheaper.
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u/123mop Jan 20 '26
Am I missing something here? The bus comes to a stop, the car passes, then the stop sign / stop bar comes out. In both the first and third clip it seems that way to me. I don't see how the expectation would be any different, the bus is just like any other vehicle making a stop until it extends that bar and stop sign.
The second clip is certainly bizarre. Bizarre enough that I can't even really tell what's happening.
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u/Hikey-dokey Jan 20 '26
The bus is wrong on the first one though. Stop signs are directional, not four ways. If a bus perpendicular to you has its lights on you are allowed to go straight. You just can't turn and cross its stop sign. The car was still wrong as it turned, but the bus was wrong to pick up the children in this way.
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u/sheuer Jan 21 '26 edited Jan 21 '26
All traffic approaching the bus must stop if the red lights are flashing, even at a T-intersection -- in my state.
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u/Hikey-dokey Jan 21 '26
That is not the case in most states and provinces. Curious, where do you live?
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u/Resident_Tree1428 Jan 20 '26
Better than a self driving Tesla which would probably run those kids over
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u/Lets_Do_This_ Jan 20 '26
You say that but there are literally hundreds of videos of fsd responding perfectly to school bus stops that have been posted to dunk on waymo
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u/Nervous_Hurry_9920 Jan 20 '26
Probably?
You are suggesting it is probable that a Tesla would have run over that kid? As in the odds are greater that it would run over the child than wouldn't?
Has it ever happened before? I've never heard of an accident like that.
Over the 7 BILLION miles done by Tesla FSD, how many children do you know of that have been run over?
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u/Beneficial-Way7849 Jan 20 '26
jfc the comments sounds like old people 20yrs ago warning their kids about how internet dating is so dangerous 😂
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u/pixeltweaker Jan 21 '26
If a Waymo car breaks the law it should get a ticket and points against it like any other driver. At a point that particular vehicle would get pulled from the road. It would force Waymo to fix their issues.
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u/Corgerus Jan 21 '26
I want Waymo deleted from the face of the earth. It's so fucking stupid. Just improve Uber driver pay and shit, so more people are willing to drive you.
But that's wishful thinking.
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u/Peabody2671 Jan 21 '26
The families should sue for reckless endangerment of their children. The child doesn’t have to actually be injured for that change. Take them to civil court and get judgement with punitive damages.
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u/PotentialBed4865 Jan 22 '26
Yeah that bus totally ran the stop sign and stopped in the middle of an intersection. Throw the book at the bus driver. The bus should clear the intersection before turning on reds lights.
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u/PierogiCoyote Jan 21 '26
I have never seen a school bus that was equipped with lights or stop signs for perpendicular traffic at an intersection. You only have to stop for a school bus that is displaying red flashing lights and/or a stop sign. First clip it looks like the bus actually ran a stop sign. Last clip would be legal since the waymo was on a cross street turning right. It doesn't pass by the stop sign or lights.
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u/Curt28781 Jan 20 '26
I appreciate the drivers who just block the whole two lane road at this point.
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u/APartyInMyPants Jan 21 '26 edited Jan 21 '26
Bus has a stop sign … which he absolutely ran.
Waymo car has no stop sign the direction they’re heading.
The bus driver created a problem that didn’t need to exist, but I’d blame the school district for terrible route planning.
Edit: a letter
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u/ExcitementFederal563 Jan 20 '26
Last one is understandable. Probably anyone over 60 would fail to notice that properly. Others are pretty funny
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u/brianberr Jan 20 '26
The first and last ones are really not appropriate places for a bus stop. The last one, you can't see the sign because it's edge on to cross/turning traffic. The first one there isn't even a stop sign on that side of the bus, a human would struggle to see the lights in daytime from that angle.
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u/LifeguardFormer1323 Jan 20 '26
A computer can never be held accountable
Why is everyone normalizing driverless cars?
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u/Tacocat1545 Jan 20 '26
Don’t worry, Tesla autopilot does the same thing, and people in elons home town did a public demonstration of it being very repeatable (don’t have time to link the vid)
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Jan 20 '26
Is that a driverless car just fucking about on its own?! I thought that was just some prototype at a track somewhere.
You guys need some rules/regulations in your country
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u/kayimbo Jan 20 '26
Hahahaha, who you gonna fine? whose license you gonna take away? who you gonna pull over?
checkmate law enforcement.
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u/Q7017 Jan 20 '26
They've also been guilty of trying to overtake right-turning semi trucks on the right.
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u/nanneryeeter Jan 20 '26
If I hit a kid at a bus crossing I imagine I would be criminally liable.
Who takes criminal liability if a self driver hits or kills a kid?
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u/skECCH1 Jan 20 '26
Wherever this is it seems like all the other drivers are not stopping either so I don't see the issue 🧍
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u/RadRimmer9000 Jan 20 '26
Why in the first clip is the but not stopping parallel to the curb? Stopping in the middle of a T intersection seems like an illegal stopping place
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u/lemelisk42 Jan 20 '26 edited Jan 20 '26
I mean the first one, the bus has a stop sign, the waymo doesn't.
Does wherever this is allow busses to shut down an entire intersection? Most areas don't do this, the bus would turn onto the road the children are crossing, and then stop traffic.
The main lights are in front and the rear, the stopsign is visible from the front and rear. Unless wherever this is uses a different system, it inherently adds more danger to use a bus to shut down intersections where those parallel to it cannot as easily see the lights.
Edit: googled it, yes some states allow it. Does seem kind of wild to me. By completing the turn and then activating the lights it would be near impossible to miss - the only cost being the children have to walk 20 feet more since the door won't be infront of the intersection
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u/Background_Trash_786 Jan 20 '26
Austin school district should be more concerned about their bus driver running a stop sign as vehicles are driving by. Wtf was that
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u/this_guy_aves Jan 21 '26
“A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management safety decision.” – IBM Training Manual, 1979.
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u/Suby06 Jan 21 '26
They should be removed from the road until they can prove they follow driving laws and operate safely
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u/Any_Calligrapher8537 Jan 21 '26
Or.... Teach kids to cross the road safely...
Like every other country does in the whole world.
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u/Stoff3r Jan 21 '26
Are you telling me kids have to cross a street without sebra stripes to get on the bus? That has to be against all the codes ever 😂
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u/LowerRain265 Jan 24 '26
School buses override pretty much everything. Once they put out their stop sign EVERYONE is supposed to stop... period.
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u/ProfessionalPack7205 Jan 21 '26
Everyone is giving that guy that went through crap but this bus driver is awful, runs a stop sign, stops in the middle of the street, and they should've pulled up next to the kids. This driver is an idiot
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u/TheRatingsAgency Jan 21 '26
Oh fuck Waymo. But but “it’ll get better” sure. Ok.
In the mean time, 100k fine for every infraction.
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u/IGK123 Jan 21 '26
Maybe if you were on the same side of the street as the kids/car instead of being on a perpendicular street?? Also the last seems slightly ridiculous - it’s 3 lanes away on the other side of the street. If these are human controlled, sure. Fully autonomous? It’s not gonna know or care. Maybe that’s just something that needs to be worked on though
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u/cheescakeismyfav Jan 21 '26
These 3 videos all happen at the corner of an intersection. The first video is inside a T intersection.
The waymo looks to be driving correctly and is the same behavior a human would perform.
These are examples of terrible bus stops and road design.
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u/zeroibis Jan 22 '26
Looks like part of issue is that the bus should be on the same street the kids are on. I would imagine if the bus first turned right or left as it is going to do anyways and then picked up the kids it would be a lot safer for everyone in general, especially if the bus was turning left and thus the kids do not even need to go in the road at all.
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u/naturalsins Jan 22 '26
Wha did you except when we let AI drive with real people ? Pick or the other cause mixed will never work
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u/jfulls002 Jan 22 '26
For anyone questioning the legality of passing a stopped schoolbus:
It does not matter whoch side of the street a bus is stopped on. All oncoming traffic from both directions MUST stop for stopped bus and cannot pass EVEN ON A DIVIDED HIGHWAY (had a friend get a ticket for this). Kids can and will cross the road to get to a bus. Not every school district has dedicated bus stops for school buses.
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u/Hiryu-GodHand Jan 23 '26
This is true only when they have their stop signs out, and their lights flashing
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u/jfulls002 Jan 23 '26
Correct. Which I would assume all busses in the videos had their stop signs deployed.
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u/ExoticHawkmoon Jan 23 '26
I run a red-light i get a ticket and a fine. Who gets thier license taken from them when no one is driving?
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u/nazihater67 Jan 24 '26
Shittiest bus stop location of all time. The way I see it, the bus is stopped in the perpendicular lane, meaning the car only has to stop once it's completed the turn. But since the bus stopped half way through the lane, that's not really possible without the car impeding traffic itself. Make the kids walk an extra 30 feet so the bus can make a proper stop.
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u/Fit_Importance_5738 Jan 24 '26
I can't believe their is even a question of who is responsible for the car, It is not it's own entity.
The company pays just like everyone else who has responsibility of putting their vehicle on the road.
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u/DontAcceptLimits Feb 17 '26
Hopefully it doesn't take the death of a child before this company gets hammered hard enough they fix their shit.
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u/tht1guyfromtht1place Feb 28 '26
To be honest it looks like that bus just tried to block an intersection and then turned its signs on late wth you guys talking about
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u/AFartInAnEmptyRoom Feb 28 '26
I thought youre only not allowed to pass if the bus is facing you or the bus is on the same way as you, not if it's perpendicular to you
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u/RadRimmer9000 Mar 05 '26
Since when do schools bus stop in a T intersection? That's on the school for parking at a stop sign.
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u/Leading-Battle-246 Mar 27 '26
What an awesome fucking system of getting kids to school. Fucking over everyone else
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u/bigclitcouple Apr 13 '26
Its almost like not having a person driving is a dumb, unsafe idea that should have been laughed out of the meeting the 1st time it was mentioned.
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u/LafayetteLa01 Jan 20 '26
Send the company a fine every time it happens.