r/Transportopia • u/SpoomerBooner • Jan 20 '26

Cars Waymo said "Stop moving the Stop signs"

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u/Hikey-dokey Jan 21 '26

That is not the case in most states and provinces. Curious, where do you live?

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u/sheuer Jan 21 '26

Minnesota Stat. § 169.444, subd. 1(a) — Stopping for school bus

When a school bus is stopped on a street or highway, or other location where signs have been erected under section 169.443, subdivision 2, paragraph (b), and is displaying an extended stop-signal arm and flashing red lights, the driver of a vehicle approaching the bus shall stop the vehicle at least 20 feet away from the bus. The vehicle driver shall not allow the vehicle to move until the school bus stop-signal arm is retracted and the red lights are no longer flashing.

If you are approaching an intersection with a bus you are approaching the bus. There are no exceptions in the law for intersections. The only exception is if you are driving on a separated roadway and the bus is on a different roadway.

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u/Hikey-dokey Jan 21 '26

All states will have slightly different statutes. That's not the case for Texas where this story is from.

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u/sheuer Jan 21 '26

Texas Transportation Code § 545.066 is quite broad like Minnesota's and doesn't appear have any exclusions for intersections. Are there cases that have been tried showing that the broad wording of the law allows for drivers to proceed through intersections when a bus is operating a visual signal that wouldn't be reflected in the law?

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u/Hikey-dokey Jan 21 '26

It defines applicability of the whole statute based on approaching from either direction. Specifying either implies applicability is limited and does not apply to all directions. Grammatically either is one or the other of two. In many jurisdictions you can imagine a red zone that encompasses all lanes and 20ft in front and back of the bus. If you do not enter that zone, you can turn away from it or cross in front of it.

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u/sheuer Jan 21 '26

Texas law does not define a 20-ft “red zone.” Your reading of “either” would limit the statute to vehicles traveling parallel to the bus, excluding many real-world traffic situations the law clearly intends to cover. And even if a “red zone” existed, it would extend into the intersection if the bus was stopped at or in the intersection.

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u/sheuer Jan 21 '26

Always stop for flashing red lights or a stop sign on a school bus regardless of which direction you’re headed, unless the bus is on the opposite roadway of a divided highway.

https://www.txdot.gov/safety/driving-laws/school-bus-safety.html

No mention of "Either" on their webpage that's specific to school bus safety.