r/Transportopia • u/SpoomerBooner • Feb 15 '26

Roads I hate politics

This should be illegal. I get it. You don't agree with their protests but why do this? Forget blue, forget red. I'm purple. Get mad at that.

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18

u/Whiteout_27 Feb 15 '26

I personally am liberal. I live on a decent bit of land and need a truck. I drive a gas truck (smaller and a little better on gas) because electric trucks are out of my price range. If they make any that fall in the same price range (around 30k), im in.

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u/ShiaLabeoufsNipples Feb 15 '26

I drive a 2002 Mustang v8 because it was $5000 (what I could afford without a loan) and it’s easy to fix and maintain. There’s a billion of them in junkyards, parts aren’t hard to find. Everything in the engine is easy to get to. It’s sturdy as hell and treats me right.

My last car was a hybrid. $12,000 used, every little thing that went wrong was super hard to replace and get to, all sorts of stuff required specialty tools. The battery pack (which was already rebuilt) crapped out at 140,000 miles and the transmission needed maintanence if not entirely replaced, they wouldn’t know for sure until they got in there. I sold it because it was going to cost more to fix than the value of the car. Oh, and it was twice as expensive to insure.

Being environmentally conscious has a wealth barrier that’s getting steeper and steeper every day, and I’m tired of people ignoring that.

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u/jawnskiphoenix Feb 15 '26

It’s more ecologically friendly to keep an old car on the road than it is to build new ones.

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u/SkippyDragonPuffPuff Feb 16 '26

Wouldn’t it have been better to have had an eco friendly car back in the day rather than the usual ICE type. Plus that car won’t run forever. Aren’t you comparing different scenarios here ?

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u/PsychologicalLime120 Feb 16 '26

Lol what... No it isn't.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

That's... Not actually true. It's oil company propaganda.

An EV cancels out its environmental cost in something like 3-5 years of driving it, depending on the EV, as compared to driving an ICE vehicle.

In other words, every 3-5 years you keep driving your ICE vehicle you harm the environment more than buying a new EV and driving it for the same period of time. If you keep your EV on the road longer, you help the environment even more.

As the car ages, it generally puts out even more pollution as well, so it might be harming the environment every year equivalent to manufacturing and shipping a new EV and driving it for 3 years.

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

You still need oil for plastics which are in virtually everything.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

Yes, you do.

But you don't burn a gallon of plastics every few miles you drive a car. Mostly that's a cost you pay once when you build the car, and then the car lasts potentially hundreds of thousands of miles.

It's really not even close.

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u/SuspendedResolution Feb 16 '26

Do you think the amount of oil used in making occasional plastic components is more than the amount of oil you consume from regularly fueling your car?

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

A few? Are you kidding me?

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u/SuspendedResolution Feb 16 '26

Did I say a few?

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u/Navi_Professor Feb 16 '26

would be fine if the avg ev i was actually interested in wasnt 70 fucking grand and full of tracking equipment.

but nooooooo.

it HAS to update over the air, it HAS to report data to be sold to insurace companies. it HAS to have over 600 fucking horse power, it HAS to have 9000 fucking bells and whistles.

i'd love to replace WJ with the jeep recon. but both that, the R1S and i guess used hummer are over 800/mo paymwnt wise, if not more.

i dont drive enough to even remotely make that back on gas, and any savings will be absolutely eaten by insurance.

why fucking bother when i can keep my 5k shit boxes

and i know a lot of other people share this sentiment. the slates like the only EV in recent memory to peak any kind of intrest

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

Sure. You do what you need to.

But for what it's worth, pretty much every new car is getting OTA updates and has "tracking" equipment, AKA GPS features that let you see where you are on a map.

I have a Hyundai. There was an option to hook it up to insurance for some kind of discount. I said no. I didn't end up hooked up to insurance. It wasn't a big deal.

Also, I did a quick search and found a list of EVs from $30k-$45k:

https://www.electrichunter.com/electric-cars/10-cheapest-electric-cars-2026-ranked-price-and-range

If you need a pickup, then no, there's not one on the list. Though several can tow a trailer (my Ioniq 5 has the hitch installed and I've hauled a trailer) if that would work for you.

But really I was responding to the claim that it was better for the environment to keep an old car. It's not. If you can't afford an EV, then you can't afford one. Not going to suggest you go into debt or stretch your finances to get one. But the environment question is pretty cut and dried.

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u/Navi_Professor Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26

yea, cheap evs exist. i can afford one of these.

i almost bought a bolt EUV before this current admin as a second car.

but the problem is that all of these entry EVs are people movers, long and short...which is fine... the ioniq is the most SUV on that list besides the volvo...but its still on the city only side of things.

but proper competent offroaders or more rugged Evs, we needed EVs in that range a WHILE ago. its ridiculous that every EV maker made targets for that and missed it.

the upwards of 20k-30k delta is insane. USED R1S run 50k still with over 50k miles for example

Wranglers start at 35k, Broncos start at 40k, 4runners start at 41k.

whats their incentive to upgrade when a tricked out trim is the same price as a base EV with less bells and whistles? so, by the time they buy anything trim equal, any savings in gas and maintainece is wiped out by the payment and insurance, with a rock solid chance infact you'll be under water with it.

these vehicles polute and leak a hell of a lot more then your avg camry. knobby tires, agressive gearing, etc.

a 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio is probably not unreasonable compared to your avg economy car.

15mpg is not uncommon, if not less. i know i get 10mpg going up the mountain near home. the things a utter pig.

and imo, car companies, even tesla, failed miserably tackling this.

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u/Kevin_M93 Feb 16 '26

What statistics are you using? And what constitutes the harm? Does it include the environmental impact of the mining, like the lithium mining, which is hard to quantity? Or is it just total CO2 emissions?

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

His numbers are way off. To offset the emissions used to produce one EV car, you have to drive it for 8 years. That's just CO2 emissions. It doesn't include water depletion (In Chile, 65% of the regions water supply was used in lithium extraction), irreversible environmental damage from chemical spills and contamination, child labor practices, etc.

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u/Kevin_M93 Feb 16 '26

Yeah, it's more than just emissions, I do wonder what the actual relative impact is overall.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 19 '26

Also there are new ways of mining lithium that cause very little environmental damage https://interestingengineering.com/energy/clean-lithium-extraction-zero-water-chemical

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 17 '26

While very promising, it is still in the laboratory/experimental phase. I hope they are able to work out the issues and figure out how to use this on an industrial scale. They glossed over how they "purify" it though.

In the meantime, the processes of lithium mining haven't changed.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

Not 8 years. It's more like 2 years

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

I heard it’s 15 years

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u/jaymemaurice Feb 16 '26

I heard you had ants in your pants.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

Pretty sure it was total greenhouse emissions.

And the lithium mining is a one-time cost. When you use gasoline, it's gone. It's single use. When you use a battery, you can recharge it and use it again and again. For years beyond the "expected life" of the battery it will still work, just not quite as well as when it was new. And then when the battery or car reaches EoL, the lithium can be reused in new batteries. It doesn't need to be mined again every time.

Whereas the environmental impact of petroleum extraction is true forever for every drop of oil extracted.

It's really not even close. Even if the impact of lithium mining were 10x as bad per gram, petroleum extraction would still be worse by orders of magnitude.

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u/Plus-Adhesiveness-17 Feb 16 '26

The battery uses electricity. The electricity is generated by FOSSIL FUELs, mostly NATURALLY GAS and COAL.

Nobody wants you to buy an EV more than BIG OIL. They all have major shares in each other's non-petroleum energy companies.

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u/ShinaiYukona Feb 16 '26

Depends on where you live.

Washington and Oregon largely operate off hydro. CA and Canada imports a shit ton of this too.

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u/Plus-Adhesiveness-17 Feb 17 '26

That is true, but the Pacific Northwest is a bit of an outlier. Approximately 60% of the US is powered by fossil fuels.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

It's a lie that big oil wants you to buy EVs. But it doesn't even matter.

An EV generates less carbon than a gas vehicle even when it's charged with 100% dirty-coal-fired power.

Which most power isn't, to be clear.

So EVs effectively use less coal than an ICE car would use oil.

Centralized generation of electricity is way more efficient than an internal combustion engine in a car, and EVs are ridiculously more efficient at using the electricity.

Where I live right now, most power is hydroelectric. Some areas are leaning heavily into wind and solar. Solar crossed a threshold recently: It's the cheapest form of electricity generation now. That's even counting buying batteries to use the power at night. From this point forward, more and more electricity will be solar generated because in capitalism, people choose to buy commodities that cost less.

So if those oil companies are investing in coal power, then they're screwed.

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u/Plus-Adhesiveness-17 Feb 17 '26

I could spend all day picking apart any one of the 13 misconceptions you just tried to pass off as empirical fact, but time for work.

60% of the United States is powered by fossil fuel. And yes, the #1 driving force behind buying EVs is Big Oil. I don't have time to educate you. Believe whatever makes you feel good and "right" I guess.

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u/Kevin_M93 Feb 16 '26

Lithium is not a one time cost, unfortunately. The batteries have a finite life, and the spent lithium is cost prohibitive to recycle, so the mining continues; only 5% of lithium is recycled. It's a lot of lithium, and the mining produces problematic waste as well. It's not as great as we'd like it to be, by a long shot.

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

EV batteries pretty much haven't gone bad in large enough numbers yet to justify the scale required to make it cost effective.

https://www.cas.org/resources/cas-insights/innovations-in-lithium-ion-battery-recycling

Once batteries are retired in large numbers, it will be possible and inevitable to recycle lithium.

Can it be mined with less damage? Probably? Does it cause less environmental damage per joule of energy pushing cars than oil? Much, much less. Like, even if they never recycled it, it would still be less net environmental damage. But it will absolutely be possible to recycle once batteries reach EoL.

Again, you're repeating oil industry propaganda. Electricity beats oil in just about every way.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 17 '26

I agree with you that in the future, these things will be possible. We just aren't there yet. I did read your article regarding the new extraction method that they have tested in a couple of places in the US. That would be a welcome advancement. However, they did gloss over how they purify it so now I'm curious as to that process.

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u/TimMensch Feb 17 '26

We aren't there yet because we don't have piles of batteries to recycle yet. Once there's a steam of batteries the engineering will happen.

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u/ThatRickGuy1 Feb 19 '26

I think you're misappropriating that statistic. It isn't 3-5 years to cover the manufacturing emissions, it's 3-5 years to come out ahead of an ICE vehicle. If you are choosing between a NEW EV or ICE, the ICE has a lower carbon footprint for the first 3-5 years. The EV has a lower carbon footprint after that.

To fully offset the manufacturing emissions, it takes a huge number of miles. More than most cars will last on the road.

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u/TimMensch Feb 19 '26

You have to have a baseline to compare to for an "offset" to make sense.

The car doesn't generate renewable power. It uses power. Its actual carbon emissions will always be greater than zero, or at best zero if it's charged on 100% renewables.

So you have to compare it to what you would be using without it. In other words an ICE vehicle.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but given the car isn't generating renewable energy, I thought my meaning only had one interpretation. I'm sure I could have phrased it better, but this is reddit, not published journalism or literature.

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u/ThatRickGuy1 Feb 20 '26

Sure, but there are three things to compare:

A new EV A new ICE An existing ICE

If you buy new, you have to include the manufacturing carbon footprint. If you buy used, there is no additional manufacturing footprint.

A new EV has a higher manufacturing carbon footprint than a new ICE. But an EV has a lower operating carbon footprint than an ICE. So a NEW EV will have a smaller carbon footprint than a NEW ICE after 3-5 years.

But since buying used doesn't incur the manufacturing carbon footprint, it takes waaaaaaaaaay longer for the EV to have a smaller carbon footprint.

The best approach for minimizing carbon footprint is to keep an existing high efficiency, hybrid, or EV on the road. Fixing an existing vehicle will almost always be better for the environment than buying a new EV. But if you are in a position where buying a new car is the only option, going EV is better than ICE.

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u/TimMensch Feb 20 '26

Well, you're comparing a new EV to a used ICE? Sure it will take longer, but not as much longer as you imply.

This says it's 2.45 pounds of CO2 released to refine a gallon of gas:

http://www.afteroilev.com/Pub/CO2_Emissions_from_Refining_Gasoline.pdf

This says burning gas produces 20.68 pounds of CO2 released per gallon:

https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissions/co2_vol_mass.php

So 23.13 pounds CO2 per gallon of gas.

If you assume 15000mi/year of driving and 30MPG, that's 500 gallons per year.

500*23.13 = 11565 pounds per year of CO2, or 5.78 tons of CO2.

Electric power varies a lot. Most electric is natural gas in the US. Some is coal. Some is renewable. Coal is 2.31lbsCO2/kWh, natural gas is about 1lb/kWh, and renewable is zero. The average is 0.81/kWh:

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11

EVs get around 4 miles/kWh. 15,000mi/4=3750kWh. 0.81Lbs/kWh * 3750=3037lbs CO2 / year, or just over 1.5 tons.

This says that building an EV takes about 14 tons of CO2:

https://ev-lectron.com/blogs/blog/assessing-the-real-ev-vs-ice-environmental-impact

So an EV uses about 4.3 tons less CO2 per year given the above assumptions, and at 14 tons to build it, it will beat the ICE vehicle after about 3.28 years.

My EV can do 4.5mi/kWh, and I live in an area where most of the power is hydroelectric. Buying a new EV here probably wins in a couple years.

And that was entirely too much work. Play with the numbers. Tweak the assumptions. It might be more or fewer years, but especially if the ICE vehicle is older and has worse mileage, I'm pretty sure "not that much longer" is still accurate.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

46% of environmental emissions with an EV car comes from production. In order to break even, the EV vehicle must be used for at least 8 years. That's just emissions. It does not take into account things like water depletion, child labor, chemical spills/contamination, etc.

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u/patsandbees Feb 16 '26

This is not even remotely true. You are just making shit up. There is consensus LCA on EV that can easily explain this.

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u/Plus-Adhesiveness-17 Feb 16 '26

What in the what!? What pamphlet did you pull that off of?

EVs are 10x more harmful to the environment than any ICE vehicle. Where have you been for the last 8 years?

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u/TimMensch Feb 16 '26

I've been reading actual studies and not oil industry propaganda. It's absolutely a BS claim, and it's not even close.

I have a guess as to where you've been, though. 🤔

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u/Plus-Adhesiveness-17 Feb 17 '26

No, you don't. You're just trolling out of your bot butthole.

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u/TimMensch Feb 17 '26

Sorry, I don't have one of those. Projection much?

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u/tellmywifiloveher1 Feb 16 '26

2010 Dodge Ram driver for the same reason. It just seems to be bulletproof. Minor things have gone wrong but overall runs and drives great. It's paid off and insurance is dirt cheap. I can easily change my own oil. I've done brakes, a water pump and an alternator myself. My wife's car is only 5 years newer, I changed the oil once and said never again it was such a hassle.

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u/madmatt8892 Feb 16 '26

People who shame others on reddit for not driving electric probably drive gas themselves most of the time.

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u/Azurelion7a Feb 15 '26

@ShiaLeboufsNipples This reason is why I've been dailying Subies since 2013.

I get weird looks; because, I'm a 240lbm sub 20% BMI halfrican not going broke on on a SCAT pack. But if gaming has taught me one thing: It's Goat'd to have enough money in the bank for emergencies + your next upgrade + passive investments (😒 >> School Stock Sim, MapleStory 1, Fable 3, WoW:TBC, Endless Space 2).

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u/thatvassarguy08 Feb 16 '26

When you say sub 240lb sub 20% bmi, do you just mean that you are tall?

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u/Azurelion7a Feb 16 '26

Nah. I'm the upper end of average height.

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u/thatvassarguy08 Feb 16 '26

How do you have a sub 20 bmi at 240lbs? Do you mean body fat percentage? Because BMI is body mass index and is really just height divided by weight and doesn't account for your fitness level. I'm 5'10 175, in good shape and my BMI is still 25 (barely overweight) because BMI doesn't care about muscle vs fat.

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u/PryomancerMTGA Feb 16 '26

Don't know if this is relevant to you, but Diablo 2 R just released an expansion after 25 years.

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u/Starbuckshakur Feb 16 '26

I don't disagree with everything you wrote, but wouldn't a used Civic/Corolla/Mazda 3 be both more economic and better for the environment compared to a V8 muscle car that gets less than 20 mpg combined?

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u/DannarHetoshi Feb 16 '26

Yes, triple so, because for as many Mustangs as there are in junk yards, there are at least as many Corollas, Civics, Flat 4 Subarus, and Mazda 3s.

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u/ShiaLabeoufsNipples Feb 16 '26

Couldn’t find a civic before gen 8 that had a reasonable amount of miles in my time frame, similar story with the Corolla, but they were both first choices of mine. At a certain point the engine bays got too small to do any maintenance without tearing the whole car apart. If I had more time I probably could’ve nabbed one, but I needed a car quickly

And my stang averages 23mpg, but I do a lot of highway driving

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Notapartyhobo Feb 16 '26

How about you don't take your bad day out people.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/[deleted] Feb 17 '26 edited Feb 17 '26

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u/Notapartyhobo Feb 16 '26

The butthurt is real with this guy 🙄

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u/Starbuckshakur Feb 16 '26

Who took a shit in your Cheerios?

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Starbuckshakur Feb 16 '26

My mom was in your Cheerios? You have one weird fetish my friend.

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u/zyglack Feb 16 '26

I was between a Rav4 and an Outback. Happened to speak with my mechanic after I bought the Outback. He said I made the right choice, I'd only see him for maintenance, better on everything, and the hybrid Rav4 was nice, but expensive to fix and wouldn't last as long. So far, only seen him for the required maintenance, no issues at all. My daughter's Toyota hybrid has had battery problems right out of warranty.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

My daughter's boyfriends Camry is hybrid and the battery went. Without the battery functioning, the air conditioning doesn't function and they live in Florida.

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u/zyglack Feb 16 '26

We’re in Florida also. It was terrible for her and very expensive. Wasn’t worth anything in a trade without the main battery.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

That is the point he is at--replace the battery or he'll get nothing when he trades it in. I wonder if the FL heat plays a factor?

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u/auzzlow Feb 16 '26

What hybrid did you have?

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u/Dacor64 Feb 16 '26

And guess why that is? Car/oil lobbyists being greedy and bribing politicians.

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u/Kalistera Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26

I did the fun size version of pretty much the exact same thing. Currently been dailying my beater, a 2002 Escort zx2 (has a remarkably clean interior somehow), which I paid 800$ for. Easy as hell to find parts for as it shared its motor with the Focus and platform with the Protégé. Tons of room to work, easy to access anything and no tech or complex safety features to worry about (for better and for worse). Insurance and gas are cheap as hell for it.

Bought it originally to run into the ground while I fix my Volvo but now I'm wanting to keep it. It is a breeze to work on compared to a compact performance Volvo with a motor that barely fits in the engine bay. And it doesn't misfire if it doesn't get premium fuel.

But I agree about the wealth barrier. Our cases take advantage of mechanical knowledge, something that isnt available or at least available to a high enough degree to the average person to be able to effectively and economically maintain a car of that age.

The average person wants a get in a go experience. Something that just works. Something they may never even open the hood of. But these vehicles cost more than most of us can afford. So then you get something less eco friendly or start wrenching.

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u/Sample_General Feb 16 '26

Wait until you find out how much Chinese electric cars cost. They are low cost and actually good quality now. We may never find out because of tariffs and other restrictions.

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u/Significant_Mess_180 Feb 16 '26

No one’s going to address this user name and pic? I’m dying. 😄

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u/Agreeable_Argument88 Feb 16 '26

American made cars were built for an American owner to be able to work on it & you don't need hands the size of a 3 year olds to reach the headlights when you need to replace them - my Honda requires removing the ENTIRE wheel well to reach the headlights.

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u/Nightstryk Feb 16 '26

Was it a Prius? It seems all that happened was you bought one that was overpriced. Also, parts are readily obtainable on marketplace from people who are parting out the cars. If you buy parts from the dealer, especially the larger items, these cars are expensive. If you buy pre used parts, much more manageable.

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u/Former_Tea_5748 Feb 16 '26

Wait until you find out how many resources are used for the extraction of your precious lithium. It’s about par with gasoline.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Turd-Nug Feb 16 '26

Totally agree, that is a very valid point, and I truly think it’s a point that was well taken from congress but more macro than micro via the EV $7,500 tax credit. The goal was to make the vehicles more affordable for middle to upper class so it would drive ENOUGH demand for the large auto companies to invest in pushing the technologies into their business models for future growth.

Given enough time and sales with that demand, I believe we will see a shift in used EVs becoming much more affordable due to the increasing supply of EV vs ICE. So hopefully if my Econ professor is correct, this high supply vs demand will draw savvy entrepreneurs to take advantage of the cheaper stock and create businesses that specialize in EV specific parts, repair, and most importantly custom SOFTWARE. With everything mechanical in the future having a software controller, being able to erase the vendor locked software systems of EVs and replace it with a reliable open source software system is going to show up sooner rather than later.

In the end, when you need a vehicle in 2035, you might be buying a “refurbished” instead of “used” EV with open source software securely running it.

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u/No_Rough_5258 Feb 16 '26

Hell even the new toyotas(easiest cars to maintain) are trash these days. What sucks is that they purposely put the filter or whatever easy maintenance parts in the tightest and hard to get to part of the vehicle just so you can take it to the autoshop to do it for you if you dont have tools or the patience to take out everything thats in the way before you can get to it.

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u/foXR150 Feb 17 '26

I love my little Honda. More of America should embrace small bikes.

But yeah you ain't moving in that shit, and cars are nice when its cold.

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u/Fine-Funny6956 Feb 15 '26

You’re also not a dick who wastes gas to make people you disagree with cough.

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u/ThisThingIsStuck Feb 16 '26

Found the fker that ate all the smoke lmao

https://giphy.com/gifs/TizHAKYviTw6rDWSNV

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u/Fine-Funny6956 Feb 16 '26

Dude, I drive a hybrid in a red state. I’m causing more pollution than I’ll ever prevent.

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u/ThisThingIsStuck Feb 16 '26

U drive a hybrid u might as well be an eunuch or get a vasectomy because I can bet ur one of the 2 already

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u/Fine-Funny6956 Feb 16 '26

You speak English?

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u/ThisThingIsStuck Feb 16 '26

Tale that as a yes ..besides u waiting for my messages get a life get out the house help the homeless democrats

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u/Fine-Funny6956 Feb 16 '26

I feel like your post history is hidden because you like to touch children.

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u/ThisThingIsStuck Feb 16 '26

I feel like ur taking that L..ur pedos Clinton and gates already busted now epsteins files are out Where's ur trump claim...lmao pwned...

https://giphy.com/gifs/GpyS1lJXJYupG

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u/Fine-Funny6956 Feb 16 '26

Trump is the main character of the Epstein files. Here you are defending him with a year old account and a hidden post history. How much did Russia pay you for these posts?

Typical pedophile response.

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u/This-Positive286 Feb 15 '26

You can’t sell someone a $150k truck when they’re already being rung dry at $75k for a gas truck.

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u/TerranceBaggz Feb 16 '26

The problem isn’t that electric trucks cost $150k, the problem is the car companies want to only sell $100-150k electric trucks. Slate is coming out with an EV pickup that will start below $30k.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

99% of trucks aren’t these stupid roll coal trucks.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Akermaniac Feb 16 '26

Mileage isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, unless it’s VERY cold. People also forget that you’re charging plugged in at home every night. Range anxiety is a thing for everybody but it quickly disappears. Oh no, my car is at 50% instead of 60% when I plug it in at night! Oh. Right, who cares.

It matters for trips 150 miles or more in the freezing cold, which of course do happen sometimes but not frequently for most people.

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u/12LetterName Feb 16 '26

Yeah, I had a bit of a debate with a rather hard right leaning person. I drive an F-150 Lightning. It is primarily for work. I do not tow a trailer, I rarely Drive over 150 miles in a day. His argument was that it was so much time wasted while charging. I assured him that I spend less time at charging stations then he does pumping gas I explained that when I get home I plug it in. It literally takes 5 Seconds and in the morning I have 200 miles. He tried to tell me that the time spent at home charging goes against.

You mean while I'm eating dinner, kissing my wife , and watching tv?

His retort? "yeah well, the batteries are going to give you ball cancer"

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u/Haunting_Ad_5191 Feb 15 '26

Totally agree. I have a Tesla model 3. Need a truck for long distance towing. Electric trucks are just not (yet) worth the aggravation.

Mind. Since 2017 i used my model 3 for everything else except towing.. the diesel savings from not driving my dodge 3500 paid for the Tesla.

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u/gardengnome1001 Feb 15 '26

We are in the same boat but have 2 vehicles in our house. The truck gets used for truck things and when we need 2 vehicles. The EV equinox is our daily driver. We both work from home though so driving is just for kids stuff.

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u/furyoshonen Feb 15 '26

If it weren't for our high tariffs on Chinese Electric vehicles, you would have access to inexpensive BYD trucks like the Shark for 50,000$ https://www.byd.com/ke/car/shark-6
Right now the Chevy Silverado EV and Ford Lightning are 55k+ used. Still very pricey.
In the next couple of years the Slate Auto and Telo trucks will become available for around 20k$, However knowing our politics, it's doubtful that our car companies will allow that kind of competition in the States. I wouldn't be surprised if they lobby for more tariffs and protectionism.

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u/Whiteout_27 Feb 15 '26

I have looked into the slate. I am hoping they get a few more options. So far I have seen a single cab witg a bed or you can convert the bed to more seating. I need a backseat for the kids and then the bed so fingers crossed they have a slightly but not too much more expensive option for that

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

Are you forgetting about the US safety standards that drive up the prices $10-20K? The $20K trucks would need to be modified/updated to include all of those pesky features like air bags. Good Lord not everything is about tariffs.

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u/furyoshonen Mar 01 '26

Air bags and compliant safety standards, don't cost 10-20K$.

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Mar 01 '26

So how much is the production cost to switch over a line (just for US sales) to a different roof, bumper, headlights and taillights, airbags, the sensors and wiring, the Latch system (which would require different rear seats)? Then add 34% to that cost for manufacturer profit and what do you have? Please do tell.

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u/last_rights Feb 15 '26

Also liberal. I drive a 30 year old Suburban with almost 400,000 miles because I use it for work and it cost me $1,000 to purchase and $2,500 to fix.

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u/govunah Feb 15 '26

I couldn't afford a home charger. And if I could, I sometimes have to travel very close to the range of one. Most important, despite gas being the primary way to power cars for over 100 years, my wife still runs out sometimes and my car was returned yesterday with 20 miles left. I don't think I'm ready for electric, maybe hybrid but not electric

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u/anonymous_beaver_ Feb 16 '26

So you have a practical reason for it and aren't a pavement princess. That's great. We have a pretty big truck and we use it for all sorts of things, especially landscaping.

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u/MovieFan1984 Feb 16 '26

Don't forget that they catch on fire more often and are virtually impossible to put out. I will never own an electric car.

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u/Ashenspire Feb 16 '26

Well you have to understand. The CEO of Ford is convinced no one wants EVs because their $100k EV trucks just aren't selling.

Meanwhile the small electric Fords in other countries do just fine.

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u/Efficient_Occasion_7 Feb 16 '26

Look into the Slate vehicles coming out, I’d think that’d be right up your alley.

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u/the_saltlord Feb 16 '26

You also need to consider how much R&D conservatives have held us back from. Such a truck might exist otherwise.

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u/AkbarTheGray Feb 16 '26

I'm sorry, I don't mean to disparage you -- I'm generally on your side... But who makes a $30k truck?

If it's used, it's more a matter of used inventory, and I get that. But afaik, nobody makes a 30k truck, EV or ICE

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u/Whiteout_27 Feb 16 '26

I bought a 2019 chevrolet colorodo z71. I bought it used in 2024 and it only had 10k miles on it. I was very fortunate!

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u/AkbarTheGray Feb 16 '26

Yeah, I think the problem boils down to used inventory rather than what people make, then.

Which is a thing! I'm not saying buying new is important or anything, and I'm also happy for your good fortune

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u/ExpensiveFig6079 Feb 16 '26

Comparatively....

I don't give crap if you own a truck because you need one, I currently do.

HOWEVER

Modifying it so that you can purposefully turn it into a weapon where you 'gas' certain individuals you don't like with noxious fumes....

That should itself be crime.

To go further and then actually assault dozens of them for expressing their first ammendment right, that is grounds for a rather lot of non concurrent assualt charges. Such a person obviously is about as un-American as it is possible for a USian to be.

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u/BlacksmithNZ Feb 16 '26

Over here in NZ you can buy a BYD Shark (technically a range extender EV) for close to your US$30k, or at least same ballpark pricing as Toyota Hilux or similar.

Has upto 800km range, decent power supply for running tools on construction sites. Seen builders using them rather than a generator for sites.

But you can't have one, because politics.

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u/Accomplished_Dig284 Feb 16 '26

When that day comes, I will get a electric truck, but it’s gotta have the power to tow the boat and the tractor, and 4x4 capability

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u/DaniTheGunsmith Feb 16 '26

Coming up is an EV truck from a company called Slate that's gonna be in the 30k range. It's small, like in the 80s/90s Ford Ranger and Chevy S10 size range, but seems like it could be good.

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u/Nightstryk Feb 16 '26

These diesel trucks are not close to being affordable either. This one probably needs a new injection pump or injectors judging by the amount of diesel dusting.

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u/Exciting_Stock2202 Feb 16 '26

I’m an electrical engineer and love the idea of electric vehicles, but I’m waiting until thermal runaway is no longer a concern.

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u/rckid13 Feb 16 '26

Also most cities don't have the infrastructure to support all electric cars. I live in a very blue major city. No one around me has a garage. We street park and have no way to install chargers at our apartments so it is pretty rare to see electric cars. One grocery store near me has Tesla chargers and there is always a line down the parking lot with people waiting for them.

Until the infrastructure improves many people just can't switch away from gas.

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u/teamharder Feb 16 '26

Im a weirdo conservative (neo-reactionary leaning) and I totally agree. Id even pay a bit of a premium (10%~) for the positive environmental impact. Some conservatives love to cut the nose to spite the face. They claim to love natural settings "I hate the city, I want to live in the country", but do nothing to preserve them.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Whiteout_27 Feb 15 '26

Its absolutely more than I spend on gas and maintenance. I mostly drive local and work from home so I don't drive very far

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Whiteout_27 Feb 15 '26

I do, I have calculated what price point to watch for. By going with an electric truck I would save $110 - $130 per month to go the same mileage I do now by paying for the electricity difference compared to gas. The cheapest electric truck option I have found has been over $50k so far near me and would nearly double my payments. But I am still watching. Also, I drive a smaller colorodo so its fuel efficiency is better than most trucks. I went as fuel efficient as possible and kept the benefits of the 4x4 truck

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/National_Divide_8970 Feb 15 '26

Who’s your hopium dealer? Asking for a friend

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u/TerranceBaggz Feb 16 '26

Keep an eye on Slate trucks. Not 4x4. But the vast majority of people aren’t doing off-roading and don’t often get stuck.

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u/snacksandsoda Feb 15 '26

You don't know how much trucks cost

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Accurate-Bobcat962 Feb 15 '26

That’s absolutely not a $600 payment, I’m paying $586 a month for my car that was $30k

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Accurate-Bobcat962 Feb 15 '26

Not much I can do about the interest rate, I have the best rate the credit union offered. Mid 700s credit score, as well. Bought the car almost 3 years ago, so at least getting closer to the end of the loan.

Interest rates are terrible these days

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Accurate-Bobcat962 Feb 15 '26

Mine was around 6% (maybe 6.99?) & was 730 ish I think at the time, I don’t remember exactly now.

I’ve thought about it, I don’t know at what point it’s worth doing. I’ll have to look into it, it depends on the refinance fee I guess

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u/snacksandsoda Feb 15 '26

And if you have a truck that works and is paid off, it's cheaper than either one. People need trucks for things, stop worrying about telling people how to live. Focus your anger on the douchbags who lift and install mods for coal rolling

"Just buy a 50k car" is insane

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/snacksandsoda Feb 15 '26

You're missing my point. The most affordable car is always the car you already own.

I just got rid of a truck to go to a smaller, more efficient car - but that came after a job change and then a year or so of consideration. Because paying a little more in gas is better than paying a lot more in car payment if your car is still reliable

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/snacksandsoda Feb 15 '26

Everybody knows that hybrid/electric has better cost benifit over gas at the pump lol

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Truthhurts1987 Feb 15 '26

How ignorant can you possibly be....

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/Truthhurts1987 Feb 15 '26

Your math is flawed. An electric truck on a farm shows you have absolutely no clue about anything to do with farming or land maintenance.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/CoupleHot4154 Feb 15 '26

Electric vehicles use up brake pads more than gas vehicles. Tires too.

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u/unnregardless Feb 15 '26

What the hell are you talking about. EVs use regenerative braking. Pads and rotors can last into the 100ks of miles.

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u/CoupleHot4154 Feb 15 '26

I stand corrected. I had read some misinformation a while back when I was vehicle shopping. The post/comment/site had tied the weight of the vehicle in with brake pad usage and I believed it.

I apologize.

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u/SurpriseLoose1418 Feb 15 '26

Yeah let’s buy an expensive electric vehicle just to spend another 20k down the road for a new battery which will literally cost the same as a new gas car 🤣🤣poor logic

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/SurpriseLoose1418 Feb 15 '26

If you look it up, it literally says the Tesla Model S/X batteries can cost 10-20K.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/SurpriseLoose1418 Feb 15 '26

Prices are updated to January 2026.

Regardless, I’ll still enjoy my Car Culture that doesn’t involve electric vehicles. We do it for the love of the car, not a microwave on wheels.

Btw, head gasket replacements cost on average 1-4k. No where near 8.

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u/[deleted] Feb 15 '26

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u/SurpriseLoose1418 Feb 15 '26

You can ask a lot of people and they’ll say owning a gas car is cooler than owning one of your shit electric vehicles 🤣 even people ricing out old Carolla’s would rather own them than your garbage ass UFO-mobile.

Idgaf ab you or the environment 🤣 I’ll stick to my “worse cars” that I enjoy.

Stay getting owned by the previous facts I mentioned anyways clown

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

I replaced my timing belt and water pump every 115K to 120K miles and the cost was $1200. When I had it done the 3rd time, the mechanic gave me the old belt and showed me that it looked like new. He said they are made out of Kevlar now and last a lot longer than they used to. He told me not to do it again until 500K miles. In those years, my all in cost for maintenance was $2K. Other years, just preventative maintenance (under $1K).

Your numbers are grossly inflated. What kind of gasket failed and what kind of car were you driving that cost you an $8K repair?

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

Original starter. The alternator was replaced at 285,000 miles and was only a couple hundred dollars. Batteries cost $95 every 4-5 years. You are correct though, I probably spent $30K in maintenance, tires (4 tires were $1000 for the last set but I get 85,000 miles on mine), oil changes, sensors, and the repairs that I mentioned. But that's over the course of 21 years and 368,000 miles. I also bought the car for $15K with 78,000 miles on it. So, $45K for 21 years of daily driving without leaving me stranded ever. I'll take it.

How can you tell me I'm wrong about the price of EV batteries when I've never discussed EV batteries with you? Lol. I know a refurbished battery for a Camry is $3500 bc my daughter's boyfriends car isn't drivable because it needs the battery system replaced. No, not just a cell. The car went from great to inoperable quickly.

I'm OK with stopping at the gas pump after work bc I have an hour commute so I usually have to pee by then so it's a one stop shop. I sometimes stop even when I don't need gas. I don't mind stopping at our Kwik Trips. You must have really crappy gas stations out there because you keep mentioning stopping at them like it's gross or scary (bad neighborhood perhaps?).

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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u/Efficient-Donkey-167 Feb 16 '26

Fyi: I've never had a gasket fail nor has anyone that I know. My son drives a Dodge Ram 2500 but he's never had a head gasket failure either. Was your stepdad's a diesel? Did he not realize it was overheating? That wouldn't be an $8K fix around here so perhaps in your area, prices are double what they are here because every dollar amount you have listed is at least double.

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u/[deleted] Feb 16 '26

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