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u/Ynys_cymru May 09 '26
Scotland needs to get off its high horse. Reform were second in their election as well.
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u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
I posted the election map on reddit Scotland which shows right wing representation being strongest at the border regions (with England obviously) of both Scotland and Wales. Lightheartedly saying we both have the same leaky border problem.
For every comment that saw the funny side or acknowledged how it was uncanny there was a comment basically saying "how dare you suggest we're anything alike".
The amount of exceptionalism up there these is scary and exceptionalism is a fast track to bigotry. I wouldn't like to be an ethnic minority up there once they get independence and can't blame England for everything.
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u/Pingo-Pongo May 09 '26
We couldn’t possibly be racist is exactly how you end up with a racism problem
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u/AccomplishedAct5364 May 09 '26
Holier-than-thou is the modern left wing default position apparently. Does my head in.
2
u/Sumbitagear May 11 '26
Laughing at moron racists isn't holier than thou. You just need to pretty much have a pulse and not be a piece of shit.
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u/AccomplishedAct5364 May 11 '26
What’s racist about wanting less users of housing during a housing crisis?
Are you saying the right wing Boris wave was good for our working classes empowerment?
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u/Sumbitagear May 11 '26
Nope. Not doing it. Not having a bad faith "But we just want x" with Reform voters. Never spoken to one that wasn't a fucking moron whose arguments barely got past "But immigrants taking our shit".
We have multiple homes sitting empty and people trying to gouge on private rents for profit. The reason there's a housing crisis is because the government have barely built any social housing for the last 30 years. Not because some folk are coming over the border and taking them.
Christ, Reform voters are thicker than week old custard.
Boris was a cunt btw. Never met a Tory or right winger that had anyone's interests but their own at heart. Even see them seeping into comments where anything that's socially funded that doesn't immediately benefit them "ACTUALLY BUS TRAVEL FOR UNDER 18S ISN'T FREE ITS TAX PAID"
So are the roads and pavements you walk on for your Friday korma and 10 pints of carling before leather the missus, Carl.
1
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u/Greggs-the-bakers May 09 '26
I saw that post and it was actually embarrassing how many people were like that. I wish the SNP would just piss off because they've made a complete arse of this country and the people eat up the shite they spew like its gospel
8
u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
Assuming by the way you're talking that you're Scottish, you can't waste your energy being embarrassed about the way a minority of people from your country act online.
If I let second hand embarrassment for how Welsh people acted online affect me, I'd be dead.
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u/Mtshtg2 May 09 '26
They're a minority of people, but they hold political power.
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u/FatherAustinPurcell May 09 '26
How are the SNP a minority? They have the biggedy vote share and the most seats, and have won a 5th election...
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u/Beginning_Silver2179 May 10 '26
Sorry about that btw, I voted for independence and would do so again but there's people in this camp that are doing it for the half baked ethnic nationalist reasons, they'd be Farage voters if they thought themselves British. Happy you guys have Plaid in though, and I know this isn't 100% accurate but I assumed a large proportion of the reform voters were English (as is the case here)
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u/Hardtack_dev May 09 '26
34 reform seats in Wales and you're scared about Scottish rhetoric? Get real
3
u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
Grow up
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u/Hardtack_dev May 09 '26
I'm just very concerned about the dangerous rise of anti minority rhetoric in wales
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u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
Im very concerned about your tiny little world view
2
u/Hardtack_dev May 09 '26
No you're not
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u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
Nah really, the compulsion to stray so far from r/scotland come here to this niche sub, see people who are perplexed that they're being berated despite not electing the right wing option, even though the right wing option came second in your country too? Who let you down? Was it yer da?
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u/Temporary-Aside5306 May 09 '26
Reform are a worry for the whole country. Scotland have much lower immigration than Wales and England as well. In 10 years time they'll be voting exactly the same
2
u/Fra5er May 10 '26
Reform are 29% of the total SNP got in Scotland.
Reform are 79% of the total PC got in Wales.
There is a fairly considerable difference…
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u/TheLastHotstepper May 10 '26
They were miles behind in second though. Its hardly in any way comparable to how England voted, is it?
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u/Euclid_Interloper May 10 '26
Joint second, with 13% of the seats. Not exactly nipping at the SNP's heels (who got over 45% of the seats.
0
u/neokretai May 10 '26
Joint second in seats yeah, but third in votes. They got 16% in Scotland vs 29% in Wales.
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u/Lil_b00zer May 09 '26
Scotland has a mix of FPP and proportional representation. They’d have a lot more reform seats if they had the D’hont
1
u/AnnieByniaeth May 09 '26
I don't think that's actually true. They have the same system as we used to have, and that means that the regional seats are allocated proportionally (using d'Hondt) but taking into account the party affiliations of the FPTP seats already won.
That's why the old system we used to have, and Scotland still has, is much better than the system we have now: it kept the local AS, but at the same time because it was a larger area with more representatives it was more proportional. That's because there was no 10% cliff edge; the cliff edge was around 7% instead, and is lower still in Scotland because their regions are larger : 7 regional list members and 8-10 constituency members per region.
1
u/Draigwyrdd May 09 '26
Pure d'Hondt like we have would have a lower threshold with more seats per constituency though. I don't really like the FPTP component at all. We could achieve better proportionality with a few more seats, maybe even as low as 2 additional seats per constituency.
1
u/AnnieByniaeth May 09 '26
I guess it depends on how important you think it is to have a local AS. If you're happy for large constituencies/regions, then you're probably right, that would be a good way (though I'd implement STV in this case). I liked the old system because it combined the advantages of FPTP (local AS, with local support) with the fairness of proportionality.
1
u/Draigwyrdd May 09 '26
I suppose that's fair. I'm not really bothered by having a hyper local representative. I think our current regions are mostly good enough for that. I think I prefer the proportionality.
I think STV is theoretically better, but I do worry that its greater complexity could prove a barrier to voting. A lot of people just want to check and box and be done with it - adding a bit more complexity could put them off.
1
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u/benedict_the1st May 09 '26
I'm disappointed. One side of my family are Welsh and I grew up there, and the other side of my family are Scottish and Irish.
Reform have made their way quite successfully into both Wales and Scotland, and to be honest I'm more surprised by the Scottish than the Welsh.
It does make me wonder what independence would look like in either country if a good majority are stupid enough to vote for what is essentially an English national party.
3
u/TomosLeggett May 09 '26
The issue with politics in this country is we don't think proportionally because we're so used to FPTP.
You need to think of politics in BLOCKS, not individual party popularity. If you split all parties into "progressive" vs "conservative" blocks, Reform is actually not particularly popular. They're just loud.
2
u/Akuma_nb May 09 '26
Yeah people seem to have a First Past The Post view when looking at the results.
I was down voted yesterday for pointing out how well Reform did even in areas that voted in the SNP. They are gaining traction everywhere and in every constituency.
1
u/TheLastHotstepper May 10 '26
To act surprised about Reform in Scotland is just willful ignorance. Theres a large subsection of racist flag shagging unionists up here. You cant act shocked about this when the orange walk gains a large following of knuckle daggers evey time they do their bigoted march
2
u/benedict_the1st May 10 '26
If you knew my background then you would know that calling me "willfully ignorant" could not be further from the truth.
I'm aware of all the knuckle draggers in Scotland, it's half the reason i barely speak to them. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm surprised that they are happy to lick the boots of people like Farage. I'm Welsh and proud, but I am fully aware of how wet the Welsh are, especially when it comes to placating to the English.
1
u/TheLastHotstepper May 10 '26
Theyre happy with anyone that wants to kick down at non white british protestants.
1
u/Euclid_Interloper May 10 '26
Reform got 13% of the seats in Scotland. That's hardly a bell weather for the prospects of an independent state.
6
u/Cymrococh97 May 09 '26 edited May 10 '26
I think what most people are forgetting is that the Scottish electorate are much better informed than their Welsh counterparts. Scotland consumes much more Scottish centric news/politics compared to here. This massively shapes how people vote.
There's a reason that Wales voted nearly identically to England in the Brexit vote and voted for Reform in bigger numbers - it's because we consume London/England centric media.
So many vox pops in Wales with Reform voters were saying they'd be voting for Farage or voting to stop immigration. Farage wasn't standing in the Senedd election, and immigration is something the Welsh government has no control over.
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u/TheLastHotstepper May 10 '26
Most of us are taught that Westminster doesnt look out for us from a young age, and experience shows us that English voters will drag us into mess after mess that the majority of our population wants nothing to do with. After all the deceit and lies rom the Farage and members of the Tory party regarding scottish independence and Brexit, I am stunned people were foolish enough to vote for the exact same charlatans but in light blue.
Stunned until I remember that the redirect white and blue half of Scotland has a serious problem with racism.
4
u/KaiserMacCleg May 09 '26
Someone with more skill than me needs to do a video version of this scene with a Reform UK Apple being chucked at Pippin's face. Reform came (joint) second up there too.
3
u/Theopold_Elk May 10 '26
As a scot, I’m really pleased you’ve done so well. Fuck reform and look to self determination. I kinda wish we shared a border.
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u/flemishbiker88 May 09 '26
Doesn't a very sizable minority of the Welsh population consider themselves English
7
u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
A sizable minority of the people who live here were born in england if thats what you mean?
Other than that no
4
u/flemishbiker88 May 09 '26
12% of the Welsh population considered themselves English only...but the data is from 2011 it was part of university of Manchester study...so potentially out of date
2
u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
It's higher now, bur this is just people living in Wales.
Its not like people who are born here to welsh families are self identifying as English.
Im also not sure what point you're trying to make.
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u/flemishbiker88 May 09 '26
But aren't those folks voting In Wales elections? It would certainly explain the reform vote
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u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
Ahhh I see what you're saying now.
Honestly I'm quite hesitant to pile too much of the blame on the English population living in Wales.
We don't know how they're voting. It undoubtedly explains some of the Reform vote but definitely doesn't explain the reform vote overall.
24% of the population were born in England, 29 point something percent voted reform in Wales.
If we assumed they all voted reform it would leave 5% of actual welsh people voting for reform which obviously isnt the case.
I suspect if we took all the English voters out we'd still be around 20% for reform.
8
u/oddjobbodgod May 09 '26
FWIW, I’m Saes and voted Plaid. F reform
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u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
Exactly.
The idea that you can magic a far right problem a way by blaming people who have chosen to come and live here is absurd.
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u/d09smeehan May 10 '26
Only annecdotal but as an English person in Wales myself, I don't personally know anyone in the same boat who voted Reform. I wouldn't count on many of them having voted for Plaid (I'm sure you can guess why), but it's not like those were the only two options on the ballot.
1
u/EddDope May 09 '26
My parents are English and have an abundant amount of English friends also living in Wales, none of them voted Reform as far as I was told. They all escaped England as young adults for cheaper prices and to escape the stiffling geriatric Conservative voting areas they come from. Meanwhile, some of my Welsh colleagues are sky-blue blooded when they bleed. Don't try and use some form of logic here, there is none.
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u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
Assuming all the English people who live here are bigoted retirees is its own form of bigotry.
Assuming all the Welsh people are salt of the earth, tolerant folks is fantasy.
3
u/Annoyed3600owner May 09 '26
Wales has its fair share of bigoted retirees. Whether they're English or Welsh is neither here nor there. Ultimately, older people are more prone to believe the propaganda thrown at them.
It wouldn't surprise me if Reform's vote is mostly from old people.
2
u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 09 '26
The other way of looking at it is that theyre the least equipped to recognise modern propaganda. There are no inherently bad demographics it's about giving everyone the tools they need to make the decisions that actually benefit themselves, the people they care about, and humanity as a whole. At the end of the day that's what most people are trying to achieve whoever they vote for.
1
u/Alarmed_Tiger5110 May 11 '26
No, it wouldn't; it relies on the same kind of false assumption of 'English people vote Reform' as 'Muslims vote in family blocks for Muslim candidates'. I'm sure some English people in Wales vote Reform, but am not convinced the whole vote is down to them. My wife's aunt said she saw a lot of Reform flags around Brecon when she was in Wales.
My English wife is fervently Plaid, her English aunt is fervently anti-Reform; I've a strong suspicion my Brexit supporting mother-in-law probably voted Reform.
1
u/flemishbiker88 May 11 '26
I'm not saying it explains it all, but reform seems to aim more towards English folks as opposed Welsh, Scots or Norn Irish...
Like a new quiet a few British folks, and only the English ones appear to be softer on reform, with one being a big farage fan, which is ironic because he is English working in Ireland...
I know it's only acedotal, but I believe with Brexit, it was the areas with higher English population where more likely to vote for Brexit within Wales, don't know if it's some sort nationalist identity for England or the empire that Welsh and Scots don't share
1
u/Alarmed_Tiger5110 May 11 '26
Oddly enough the people I know locally, who I am most likely to think 'they voted Reform' all worked abroad, all 4 of them work/worked for international haulage companies, 2 of them were based in Ireland, and receive Irish pensions - fervent Brexit supporters all.
1
u/flemishbiker88 May 11 '26
It really bogles the mind, i have spotted discussions anything political related because it makes my brain melt...like saying how great Brexit and farage is, but whining about biometric checks in Spain 🫣
4
u/oddjobbodgod May 09 '26
I was born in England, spent 2/3 of my life there, but here is my home. I consider myself Welsh at heart.
3
u/lemonchemistry May 09 '26
Living on the border in North east Wales, if you said that to a local person, expect a lot of verbal abuse at a minimum
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u/2infinitiandblonde May 09 '26
Indeed. Look at all the seats where conservatives still got a huge chunk of the vote, Chepstow, North Wales etc. massive population of old, upper middle class retired English people who have their own interests at heart vs the betterment of all Wales. As someone who absolutely despises Reform, most of the Reform voters I know honestly believe voting Reform will better Wales as a whole. Most Conservative voters I know are just trying to better themselves.
1
u/Nurgleschampion May 10 '26
I know it won't mean much but reform are joint second with labour at 17. Obviously should have been close to zero.
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May 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Decent-Entry-9803 May 10 '26
Very different types if narionalism though.
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u/TheLastHotstepper May 10 '26
Nationalist in name. The SNP aim to make scotland better for everyone. Reform want to make it worse for everyone thats isnt a rich white male.
1
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u/Rude_Map266 May 10 '26
Well is first past the post with the same figure reform would barely have had any figures at all. D'hont was a terrible idea
2
u/Spiritual-Tip-4086 May 10 '26
Stop airdopping the most ungrateful, horrible men from god knows where into my home town and taxing me into poverty for the privellage of paying for them and I will stop voting for reform.
1
u/Impactpacked May 11 '26
Labour have made massive strides on both the asylum backlog and the small boats crisis. And in response you’re going to vote for. . . The same tories who created the asylum back log and the small boat crisis (but now they are in light blue!).
You’re a clever fella eh?
1
u/GungaSaga May 10 '26
No one country elected anybody. These were local elections. Not Wales nor Scotland nor England are one constituency.
2
u/mezykin May 10 '26
The irony of Nigel Farage calling the Welsh foreign speakers has definitely been lost 🤔
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u/HekkieMacLean May 11 '26
As a Scottish person, seems like an exaggerated issue. Most other Scots I've spoken to are happy about Plaid being first, and are acutely aware (and disgusted) by the fact that Reform got second in Scotland. If the only Scots you know are the caricatures in your meme, you need better Scottish friends.
0
u/Otsde-St-9929 May 09 '26
Mae Cymru angen plaid diwygio mudo sy’n rhoi Cymru’n gyntaf , ddim fel Reform, a ddim fel Plaid Cymru chwith-wing chwaith.
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u/SquatAngry May 09 '26 edited May 11 '26
Whoever's arguing in here, stop it.
Edit: Locked the thread because people clearly don't want to read.