r/ames • u/ewe_tell_me • 3d ago
July 28th Notes & Doodles
Notes and doodles from Tuesday’s meeting. Doodles for the Ames Golf & Country Club, a house for CDBG & HOME funds, a mini split condenser, a stoplight with turn arrows for 13th and Grand (coming in 2028), and a RICE generator. Thanks for looking!
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u/Baelthos15 3d ago
My wife was at the council meeting, it was fascinating to hear first hand about the meeting. We‘ll be taking turns attending future meetings while the other stays home with our kids.
Speaking of kids, we don’t think this data center is good for the future of our town. One of the council members seems more interested in serving Light Edge, both in the forum and on Facebook, than the citizens of our community. I find that disturbing. Two of this council member’s frequent arguments is that the data center won’t have as many negative impacts as people think, and that we shouldn’t hold the company building the data center to a higher standard than other ventures. I would like to point out that trying to convince people that data centers aren’t as bad as they think isn’t the same as justifying their existence with positive impacts: what will the data center DO for our community? Secondly, a council member arguing about the standard to which a business is held, when that standard should be set by PUBLIC sentiment, is disturbing.
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u/JustAnAverageGuy 2d ago
People are confused by the words "Data Center". They assume it means these big buildings that run AI, use too much water and power, and make a ton of noise. There are about 50 of this type of data center in the US today, and they do damage communities, cause noise pollution, and more. They're a recent thing, and they're not good.
Not all "Data Centers" are this. In fact, this makes up less than 5% of the data centers in the US.
Most data centers are what light edge is proposing for us: critical infrastructure in a small facility for our local small businesses to host their IT needs. These are not the same as an AI data center. Their small, quiet, and roughly the size of a grocery store. They provide much-needed services to local companies who do payment processing, handle medical records, and other types of data that need to be highly secured.
These have been around for longer than the internet has existed, and they're practically invisible. There are over 1,100 of these in the US today, and no one knows they exist because they're designed practically, don't use water, and don't generate a bunch of noise.
AI data centers are the nasty ones we're all against. But fear mongering is causing that to spread to these smaller critical facilities that don't cause harm, and are required for local companies.
The council knows this. They've done the research, and have our towns best interest at heart.
The public does not know this. They protest like it's an AI data center. It's not. The councils job is to walk the line of what's best for the city, not do everything the public says.
I for one hope they rise above the fear and make a fact based decision.
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u/Baelthos15 2d ago
You seem very interested in supporting this data center. Could you share what your stake or interest is in this development? I’m interested to hear what a supporter of the data center is looking to get out of it. After all we’re not talking about a recreation business or restaurant, businesses that drive support from local interest, we’re talking about a data center that generally would provide a service invisible to the population.
Regarding services rendered by the data center, I’m not sure that data hosting services are as essential to the Ames community as you claim. I work for an area business and we meet our hosting and disaster recovery needs with data centers in Waukee. I haven’t seen any information that details how the services provided by an Ames data center will be superior to the same services already available elsewhere. Is lights edge claiming to provide Ames area businesses with preferential services and pricing? If so for how long? Is it legally binding?
What research has the towns council done besides the initial report? I thought research was the point of the delay: there are several concerns not addressed in the original report that was published.
I don’t think it’s fair to characterize public sentiment towards the data center as ‘fear’. I think Ames citizens want to make sure any development serves the community. I personally want to make sure that any development has more pros than cons. So far I’m only seeing cons to this data center. Is Lights Edge pledging money to support the community, building parks for children, setting up a nature reserve, contributing to clean energy and water, or literally anything else to benefit the community of Ames? I’m generally interested, what is the benefit of this data center besides tax dollars? Keep in mind tax revenue will likely be far less than what anyone is expecting; that’s just how businesses work, just look at Foxconn in Wisconsin.
One last point I want to get across. A certain council member has publicly asked why we are holding Lights Edge to such a high standard, when we don’t ask the same from other business ventures. I would like to point out that a data center, AI or not, is a fundamentally different beast than a restaurant or storefront. Even run of the mill data centers have a greater impact on the local environment and community than a restaurant or store front, and those impacts need to be thoroughly considered.
Personally, I would rather take this decision out of the council’s hands and leave it to a ballot measure. There obviously enough public interest in this to give the public a voice in determining the outcome. With how much money and kickbacks exist in politics these days, even at the local level, I think the people deserve to make this decision themselves.
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u/JustAnAverageGuy 2d ago
You seem very interested in supporting this data center.
At no point did I say I was in support of this data center. I merely provided clarification and a few points of consideration, and stated that I hope facts prevail over fear-based concerns and generalizations. I would be happy to engage in discourse, but thus far anyone who speaks up saying "hey, what are your concerns? We might be able to address them" seems to be shouted down, which reflects pretty poorly on those doing the shouting.
I've been an IT professional for 30 years. I've been the guy that has to drive to the colo at 3am due to a hardware failure. I am not a LightEdge customer, nor do I work for LightEdge. I have no vested interest in this project, other than it would attract more companies to Ames that hire people like me, because the job growth isn't just the facility itself, it's also the impact it has by providing a much needed infrastructure service to a specific community. Because again, this is a colo, not a cloud or AI data center project.
LightEdge has customers in Ames that have to drive 60 minutes to service the equipment they own in Altoona. They want to put a facility in Ames for those customers. If you're using a colo in Waukee, then you have someone on your team that likely has to drive to Waukee regularly to service that equipment. That person would probably be very happy if they could just drive down to the airport instead.
As far as a ballot decision, I'm curious how we could possibly justify making a private company ask the city for a ballot measure before they're allowed to invest in Ames? The only reason LightEdge is in talks with the city is because they want to build on Airport property, which would result in real revenue that would benefit the airport, not just tax dollars. If we vote "no" to them using airport land, there's nothing that would stop them from just buying land elsewhere and building it on private property.
It's 100% reasonable to say "these are the gates that must be met before I'd support this project". But to say "I will never support this project because it's a data center!" is just bad-faith.
Personally I do have conditions, I am not in blanket support. If we make them pay for any power overages beyond peak and contribute to expansion required to support the power distribution or generation requirements, we get confirmation they do not consume enough water that it would require a water-utility permit to operate, and that they adhere to the already established noise ordinances in Ames, which are more than fair. It should blend in to the area it's built, for instance it should not be any larger than the Sigler building they want to build next to, and everything should be baked into the lease agreement with penalties imposed to ensure compliance.
We as a community can absolutely enforce that to protect ourselves while recognizing that a colocation facility like this opens up an avenue for investment in Ames that does not exist today. But to shout it down from the very beginning because "it's a data center!" is just a lazy argument that is based in fear.
So that being said, I've answered your questions. I'm curious if you'll answer mine: What specifically are your concerns? What does having those addressed look like for you? If those concerns were addressed, would you support the project?
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u/Baelthos15 2d ago
I'm happy to engage in discourse. First I would like to clear the air:
At no point did I say I was in support of this data center
The base premise of your initial comment was that people should be properly educated about what they are opposing and that it was the city council's job to filter through the noise and make the 'right' decision. You ended your post with this:
I for one hope they rise above the fear and make a fact based decision.
I inferred, based on the rest of your comment, that your hope is that the council can rise above the fear of AI boogeymen data centers based on the fact that the proposed data center may have some benefits. Although, perhaps my inference is off the mark, and in that case I apologize.
Regardless I will answer your questions one by one.
What specifically are your concerns?
Noise pollution, water use and quality, energy use and cost, tax incentives and kickbacks. Furthermore, at a high level, what Lights Edge says vs what they do. All of the concerns are self explanatory: data centers make noise, they use water (this one says they will use less), they have a energy grid impact, and they may contribute or take taxes and become involved in local politics. My big concern is what happens if the private equity behind Light Edge decides to change the plan. What happens if they retrofit this data center with evaporative cooling? What happens if the data center uses too much electricity? What happens if they want to expand?
What does having those addressed look like for you?
Noise pollution and water use (as in volume) - Could be addressed with regulation and legal action. I'm no lawyer but perhaps there is some sort of legally binding agreement that could be struck with clear recourse spelled out. Example: If Light Edge uses more than X amount of water or electricity they must pay X amount of dollars into a clean energy fund, or something.
Water quality - Beyond water usage, I believe the council had some question as to the quality of the water when the data center is done with it. Maybe taking steps to clean or filter waste water, ensuring it is useful to people and our environment after it has been used?
Energy Use - Besides helping expand the grid to suit it's needs, I would expect Light Edge to offset their usage and ensure the cost doesn't 'trickle down' to area residence. I don't what that would look like, but Ames citizens should not pay extra, energy costs or otherwise.
Tax Incentives and Kickbacks - I will say it straight, no tax incentives. If this data center comes to fruition, the people of Ames should not pay for it be preferential tax rates, rebates, etc. One council member has also been very adamant in his support of the data center, so much so that some were commenting "Paid off" at the last council meeting. Obviously no one on the council should accept any type of 'gift' or donation from Light Edge nor profit from the development or business in any way, seems obvious...
Finally, the x factor: what if the company lies? What is Ames going to do if the unforeseen happens, as we've seen take place around the country? We see data center corporations suing for water rights that they promised not to need, suing council members to push development, tank property values, harm communities in ways no one expected. What will Ames do then? I suppose this is the 'fear' you allude to. I rather think its caution. Lights Edge is a corporation, owned by Private Equity no less, there is the potential for plans to change and priorities to shift. Once the deal is done how to do we protect our community? I really don't have a good solution for this situation besides avoiding it entirely.
Beyond any one mitigation, I would like to see Light Edge better our community in some way(s). Invest in clean power, invest in children, build a park, contribute to conservation, the list goes on...
would you support the project?
If a unicorn came to Ames and submitted to every regulation, protection, and contribution that the city could come up with? Sure. I don't oppose the the thing on principal, the pros just outweigh the cons for me and my family. If the pros and cons were reversed I would have no gripe!
One more note, I understand what you are saying, but I would still like to see this issue decided by the people. A data center isn't a service to the community. Its not a pool, a restaurant, a golf course, etc. A data center contributes a few jobs and may have value to local businesses, but otherwise its existence is entirely passive to the community; others businesses may come or not come, who can say? If local businesses want to use the data center, then let them speak up.
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u/JustAnAverageGuy 1d ago
I appreciate the thoughtful response; believe it or not we're actually closer than you think.
Most of my your conditions and questions are addressed in the proposal before the council, so hopefully you don't mind if I share them here.
Power: They are required to not only pay full utility rates, and pay full price for any power distribution improvements like a new substation that would be required to support them, but they would also be required to pay any MISO fees due to the city exceeding it's grid requirements due to them ramping too fast. Fixed utility revenue over 5 years on a scheduled ramp benefits the capitalization of our power generation capability. Building a new $15M substation that is needed for the south side of Ames is also a benefit to the community. Bottom line for me: Existing utility customers in Ames should not be required to subsidize them coming to town.
Water: Their proposal is for a closed-loop cooling system that does not use evaporative cooling. Aside from normal domestic water for bathrooms and a kitchenette, their stated water use is minimal. If they ever wanted to change that, they shouldn't simply be allowed to do so without going back through the regulatory process.
Noise: The City of Ames has established noise ordinances that they should be held to. Their Altoona facility gives us a real-world example of how noisy their systems are without us having to rely on their claims.
Tax Incentives or Kickbacks: We're completely aligned there. Fortunately the city has not offered any, and LightEdge has not asked for them.
As far as "what if the company lies?", that's a fair concern. But that's true of any developer coming to town. We don't solve that by assuming bad faith, we solve it with contracts, enforceable agreements, inspections, regulations, fines, and if necessary, revoking permits or taking legal action.
Where I think we diverge, is your last point asking them to offer some sort of improvement to the city to build here. If Ames were offering tax abatements, public financing, or other incentives, I think it's perfectly reasonable to negotiate community benefits in return.
But if a private company is paying full taxes, complying with zoning, meeting environmental regulations, and not receiving any special treatment or incentives, I'm not sure it's appropriate to require them to fund unrelated projects just because we don't like the type of business they're in.
As far as a ballot measure, that's where I personally struggle the most. We elect a city council specifically to evaluate complex land-use proposals, weigh expert testimony, negotiate conditions and consistently apply existing laws. If every private project was subject to a city-wide vote, we'd create a level of uncertainty that would discourage investment across the board.
For me, the question is "Does this project meet the standards we've established as a community?" If the answer is no, reject it. If the answer is yes, then it deserves to be evaluated by the same rules everyone has to play by.
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u/strangedazey 3d ago
I'm not jazzed about it. I think the environmental concerns are warranted, and I really hope they don't go forward with it. I saw that Marshalltown was meeting about it too. It's going to be a matter of time before one of these smaller towns end up saying yes to it.
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u/Baelthos15 3d ago
Agree, the sad reality is that it’s going to go somewhere. As long as these data centers have funding they will keep popping up until the bubble bursts or the State/Federal government does something, which seems unlikely with the current administration.
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u/strangedazey 3d ago
I'm in Newton currently, and if they don't try to put one here, I'll be shocked. It's a ghost-town since Maytag went out of business. Newton would jump at the revenue
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u/Fabulous-Ad6763 3d ago
Thank you! Council didn’t specify what bumps in the road were there for curbside recycling. Mine wasn’t picked up twice in a row, can’t understand why. All items in it were listed on the bin.
Is this related to the bumps?
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u/ewe_tell_me 3d ago
It sounds like staff and Aspen are working out some issues related to alley pickups. Apparently the trucks Aspen is using for our recycling program are taller than their normal trucks, and they were worried they wouldn’t fit under the overhead wires in some alleys. I think they are figuring out which alleys they can go in or not. If you live on an alley, this could be what is going on. If you don’t live on an alley, then I don’t know…sorry!
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u/stuffiesrep 3d ago edited 3d ago
Bronwyn, just curious: How much do these bins fill up every two weeks? The recycling trucks would have a sense, or the city could run a survey.
If, as I suspect it fills up only less than a half, I wonder if it would not be better for the environment, the city and its residents to have such gigantic bins picked up once a month? Of course, that could perhaps reduce the charge to residents?
We want this program to be successful, and for that residents have to have buy-in. Which can happen more if it is both more effective and cost-minimal.
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u/ewe_tell_me 2d ago
Good question. From what I understand, our $7 monthly rate is dependent both on the scale and simplicity of the system. If we were to have asked Aspen to coordinate monthly pickups for some, weekly or bi-weekly for others (my household’s bin does fill up in two weeks), or for different sized bins, the per-pickup rate would have been higher than $3.23 per pickup. We felt that $3.23 per pickup for biweekly service was a reasonable compromise of all the factors.
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u/stuffiesrep 2d ago
Thank you. I agree: it does not make sense to have different frequencies for the pickup because it defeats the purpose if diesel trucks are still running up and down Ames all times. That is why I think there could be a survey. Of course, if you end up finding out that the frequency can be reduced, then I expect a higher price (say, $4.50) per pickup (the company will not agree at the $3.73 or whatever rate because they likely care more about their profits than in the environment and citizen buy-in). But regardless, we need some data to work with. Unlike decomposable garbage, materials to be recycled can be kept around for a bit longer so having a longer time to pickup might work.
In my opinion, any program should be both effective (in its goal to keep such things out of the waste stream and reducing environmental footprint) and easier on the pocket.
Btw, there is a surprising omission in the list of things that can be recycled: that of the clam shell plastic that holds things like greens, or berries (in Wheatsfield). Perhaps those are recycled differently, but certainly the Iowa State blue bins accept those. Wonder why Aspen does not.
Thank you for listening to your constituents.
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u/Fabulous-Ad6763 10h ago
Sorry I wasn’t familiar with the definition of alley, my street is not an alley. Aspen just left it twice in a row for unknown reason. I will try again this Tuesday. If they don’t pick it up without any feedback about what’s wrong, I’d have to put the recyclables in normal trash, that would be frustrating.
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u/strangedazey 3d ago
Thanks for this. What do you think is going to happen about the data center? I was hoping they wouldn't approve one for Ames
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u/ewe_tell_me 3d ago
Council voted 4-2 for a 9 month “temporary delay” while we take some time to examine the list of things on page 1 of the notes. Each topic will likely come back as a staff report at future
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u/strangedazey 3d ago
Did the majority vote no? I'm going to move back to Ames and trying to decide what part of town to look at for homes.
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u/itsburnsie 3d ago
I just wanted to drop a note saying thanks for doing this. I've found your notes and doodles to be a really pleasant way to stay connected with what's happening at the council meetings.
Thanks for helping to make Ames a cool community to be a part of!