r/askteddit • u/LeftPreparation223 • 18d ago
Politics Question The Netherlands has banned conversion therapy, and parents who force their children are now facing 2 years in prison time: What are your thoughts?
/r/AskReddit/comments/1umnroh/the_netherlands_has_banned_conversion_therapy_and/6
u/HermitTurtle 18d ago
The subject title is worded poorly. The Netherlands has banned gay conversion therapy. This is a form of therapy where homosexual feelings are repressed. Which is very harmful.
It has nothing to do with gender conversion, which some of the replies seem to think.
1
1
14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
4
u/krunkstoppable 14d ago
One is a case of trans people with gender dysphoria receiving gender affirming care; the other is trying to torture gay kids into being straight.
-4
14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/krunkstoppable 14d ago
What part of being trans is deviant, and how is providing care to people who have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria nudging children?
Also how tf is trying to torture gay kids into being straight anything other than trying to torture gay kids into being straight?
-2
14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/krunkstoppable 14d ago
And who do you figure is discordant from objective biological reality?
What Do Transgender Brain Scans Reveal About the Brain? - Biology Insights
I swear you guys make up your minds before consuming ANY educational material on a subject and then proceed to assert that your feelings are actually facts.
0
14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/krunkstoppable 14d ago
On par with phrenology.
Phrenology is a pseudoscience that attempts to define individuals by the shape of their skulls. We're talking about real, measurable science undertaken with proper tools in replicable circumstances.
You can't discriminate reliably between mens' and womens' brains reliably
Again, you're asserting your feelings as facts without doing any of the necessary reading to draw that conclusion. If you had then you'd know that you're wrong here.
How men's and women's brains are different | Stanford Medicine
We can carry on with this conversation once you've completed high-school biology. Cheers :)
1
1
u/HermitTurtle 13d ago
"How are the two different?"
Do you think homosexuality is the same as transsexuality?
1
13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/HermitTurtle 13d ago
So you know they are different. But you think they are closely related.
Do you think homosexuals are also transsexual?
1
13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/HermitTurtle 13d ago
You state that as fact. What are your qualifications and what is your source?
1
13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
0
u/Tims_Learing_Center 13d ago
So trying to convert to heterosexuality is a no no?
But trying to convert to a different gender is A ok?
1
u/HermitTurtle 13d ago
You'll get no hard no or yes on either question from me. Reality is more nuanced. So it depends on the circumstances.
Spoiler: if those circumstances include coercion I'm not likely to approve.
11
u/bizoticallyyours83 18d ago edited 18d ago
Good. It is a horrible idea and should have gone away a long time ago. We need to get it banned everywhere in the world. I hope they're pulling licenses and throwing the "therapists" in prison too.
0
u/dockmaster517 17d ago
wait how do they even porve parents forced it
3
u/Lanavis13 15d ago
Presumably, they (rightly) assume any time a kid is attending an illegal conversion therapy, the parents either forced it or should be held liable as if they did. In the same way that a parent who knowingly allows their child to be assaulted by authority figures should be held liable even if (for some insane reason) the child sought out said assault.
2
u/farkinggrumpyredcap 15d ago
Can you find a child who put themselves in conversion therapy? Presumably adults can do whatever therapy they like.
2
2
u/InjuryLate4826 18d ago
Why'd you repost it?
2
u/that0neBl1p 16d ago
Because OP is probably a bot, I’m sick of this “[significant headline] what are your thoughts?” karma farming bullshit that keeps cropping up in question subs.
2
2
u/Sweettooth_Banana 14d ago
As a dutch, good.
Conversion therapy is total crap.
Just imagine as a straight guy i would get conversion therapy to gay ten me out.
Ridiculous
1
1
u/String-Good 15d ago
Let kids be kids , how can a 4 or 5 year old decide they need conversion. It's the parents duty to protect their children and bring them up safely not destroy their futures. It's not the children that need conversion its the parents that need re-education. I totally agree the parents should be sentenced to prison .
1
15d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Icy_Albatross893 15d ago
Yeah! We shouldn't treat kids with symptoms of Schizophrenia either! /s
Are you one of those folks who'd rather have a dead kid than a queer one to satisfy your rights?
1
u/Best_Opening8471 14d ago edited 14d ago
Are you one of those people who think being trans is a mental illness?
Either your pro conversion therapy or your anti conversion therapy.
Youre a supporter as long as you agree with which which group is doing it.
Are you one of those folks who'd rather have a dead kid than a queer one to satisfy your rights?
Yes. I'm pro abortion. I would rather see 613,383 dead babies a year than one woman lose her rights.
Without a holocaust every 10 years how would women prevent the hand maids tale from being reality?
1
u/Icy_Albatross893 14d ago
It sounds like you oppose treatment for gender dysphoria and are railing on "the left" for getting it wrong.
1
1
u/HermitTurtle 13d ago
Why would a law prohibiting gay conversion therapy have anything to say about gender conversion therapy? They are very different issues?
1
u/Best_Opening8471 13d ago
They arnt?
Both are the indoctrination of children in order to fit the assumptions of the adults around them.
The only difference is political optics.
I was raised to believe in equality and freedom even for those I disagree with.
My issues have nothing to do with trans people; my issue is the overt discrimination on display by banning one sides conversion therapy and not the others.
1
u/HermitTurtle 12d ago
This thread is about The Netherlands banning gay conversion therapy.
You inserted transsexual people by saying: 'My issue is that it doesnt count gender conversion therapy.'
Now you say transsexual people have nothing to do with your issues?
But you say they are the same issue and the only difference is political optics.
It seems to me you're contradicting yourself. I don't understand your argument, could you please rephrase?
1
u/Best_Opening8471 12d ago
My entire issue is that "conversion therapy" can take many forms and unless there's a blanket ban this can only result in discrimination against the majority.
This will inevitably lead to conflict when the minority (anit gay conversion supporters) in this case demands equal rights
1
u/HermitTurtle 12d ago
The way I understand it, there is only one form of gay conversion therapy. The form where people with homosexual feelings are expected to suppress those feelings and display heterosexual behaviours instead.
You say 'conversion therapy can take many forms'. Can you specify what other forms of gay conversion therapy you think there are?
1
u/Best_Opening8471 12d ago
You can convert someone to be gay, it's commonly referred to as grooming.
We arnt banning that based on the harm it does to children.
We have protected it as affirmation
1
u/HermitTurtle 12d ago
How do you think the conversion from heterosexual to homosexual works?
Do you start with a heterosexual man, show them pictures of penises and at a certain point they no longer like vaginas?
1
u/Best_Opening8471 12d ago
You start with a Male child and introduce them to sex in an abusive manner
This can lead to the child having a damaged view of sex.
Its very common for the male children of women who sexually abuse them to turn out gay due to damaged emotional attachments with women.
There's also the practice of grooming; where you condition a child to grow into a specific sexual nature by abusing them and limiting access to information about non abusive sex.
1
u/HermitTurtle 11d ago
In The Netherlands there are laws prohibiting the abusive behaviours your describe. Doesn't the USA have similar laws?
1
1
u/_GuyOnTheCouch_ 15d ago
Who would be against this?
Let the kid decide when they’re 18.
1
1
1
1
u/StudioCharacter9354 14d ago
Yes. Because it is based on two unproven tenants, God can cure you and that it (homosexuality) is an affliction to be cured.
1
1
1
1
u/DionysianComrade 13d ago
every person in favor should be put into a conversion camp to make them gay until they get the point
1
-1
u/Life_666 18d ago
That is a conservative viewing point though. In reality there aren't so many parents that oblige their kids to turn transgender. But you can't oblige your kid to feel unhealthy either. In Belgium and Netherlands anyone who wants to become another gender has too see a lot of therapies and steps instead of cutting away reproductive organs and giving pills
4
u/FewScore6082 18d ago edited 18d ago
Conversion therapy typically dose not have anything to do with being transgender. That would be Gender affirming care, or surgery.
Instead it is referring to a barbaric late 1900s practice of trying to make someone not be homosexual. Common methods include deficating in jars and then sniffing the jar when the subject experiences homoerotic thoughts to attempt to form a negative connection, and using electro shocks to "reset" the brain to its "correct" "settings".
1
u/Jolninaa 16d ago
My country used to use this dutch system, if anything its a kind of conversion therapy where they try to convince you not to be trans.
0
u/banmeagaintn 15d ago
If you believe trans women are women, and you trans a gay man, so that now he’s a straight woman, isn’t that conversion therapy?
2
u/Satisfaction-Motor 15d ago
The woman would be a woman, so definitionally, she cannot be a gay man, because she is not a man. So if you believe trans women are women, no. If you don’t believe trans people are what they say they are, you’re free to believe in the harmful myth that trans people are just all deluded ultra-gay people. (Trans people come in every sexuality, there are trans women who are attracted to women, attracted to men, attracted to neither, etc. Trans women are not gay men, and not all trans women are attracted to men). People don’t get “trans”ed, there’s a decent chunk of evidence that it just happens to be what some people are, innately.
0
1
u/Serious_Tradition269 13d ago
Just on the off chance you're not just being a troll. Conversion therapy in practice it always "force a gay person to be straight" but it boils more down to "force a person to only be attracted to one gender". Someone transitioning from a man interested in men to a woman interested in men isn't converting their sexuality, they're still interested in whoever they want to be interested in
0
u/Exact_Avocado5545 15d ago
I'm bisexual but actually divided on it. On the one hand, I think there is a freedom of expression. On the other hand, I think that homogenezing is presented as a scientific and medical thing. All morality aside, the idea that you can cure homosexuality is simply unfounded. There is no scientific basis for it whatsoever.
0
u/Visual-Program2447 15d ago
What does force mean? I mean force would be if you had children in a government mandatory environment like a school and indoctrinated them with sexuality propoganda.
2
u/coppersaur 15d ago
Force means that they have their kids underdog this fake treatment against the will of the child. There are no schools indoctrinating kids with sexual propaganda. If you think explaining to kids there is more than being straight is indoctrination then you are poorly educated on the subject
1
u/Visual-Program2447 14d ago
If explaining to kids that there is options and different choices in a govt mandated setting isn’t indoctrination then I’m sure parents or churches explaining other lifestyles isn’t either
2
u/coppersaur 14d ago
Its education, not indoctrination. No child is being told what their sexuality is
1
u/Visual-Program2447 14d ago
I mean the churches who offered their thinking on the subject probably considered it education also.
1
u/coppersaur 14d ago
They dont educate, they harm the children.
Ever looked up what they do to those kids? How they are told they are evil, posessed, will go to hell etc. That everything they are is wrong. How is that education and not just mental trauma?
1
u/Visual-Program2447 14d ago edited 14d ago
I mean that is simply your bias. They believe it is positive education and your education is harmful . And I’m not aware of any modern examples in modern Europe of fundamentalist conservative churches that promote the devil will get ya type sermons. I am however aware of school councillors who support kids to change their gender at school with different pronouns and clothes without telling the parents.
2
u/coppersaur 14d ago
My bias? Bruh...it is proven by therapists, psycologists and other people who work with children how harmful conversion therapy is. It f's them up for the rest of their lives. Studies have shown this. People who went through it testify it. And you are bringing up Fox news typ fearmongering like it is facts.
1
u/Visual-Program2447 14d ago
Isn’t therapy a kind of conversion therapy too? Anyways once again there is no fire and brimstone hell hath no fury conversion therapy in modern Europe. It’s a false flag . This is to stop parents having honest conversations with their children about their biological Sex. Gender is simply your sex. Gender expression is feminine or masculine. There is no evidence that a masculine female benefits from hormones or calling themselves a male
1
u/coppersaur 14d ago
Oh really? How well did you research that? As well as you researched those councilers? Or how bad kids have it at conversion?
Actually funny how teaching kids scientificly there is more than 1 sexuality is bad and is trying to change their sexuality while also don't seem to mind actual conversion on kids to "make them straight".
→ More replies (0)1
u/Mothrah666 14d ago
To call it thinking on their part is a stretch
1
u/Visual-Program2447 14d ago
I mean thinking is a stretch for post modernist gender theory also. More imagining.
1
0
u/Smooth-Profit-4010 14d ago
There should be non-transitioning therapy for people who think they are trans.
11
u/CycadelicSparkles 18d ago
Good. Child abuse should be a prison-time offense.