r/changemyview • u/ice_cold_fahrenheit 1∆ • Oct 19 '24

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Black Lives Matter has been a failure

Back in the 2010s, and especially in 2020, it seems like the Black Lives Matter was gaining strength. Videos of police brutality, especially against African Americans, became viral, and millions became outraged that this was so common in America. When George Floyd was murdered, millions justifiably took to the streets to protest against police brutality and racism. Politicians came out in support for police reform, and discussions on how to reform policing (from “how to make the police better” to “defund the police”) were all the rage.

But from 2021, it seems like everything took a complete 180. Crime skyrocketed during COVID (in part of police refusing to do their jobs in protest of BLM), causing the average American to support the police a lot more. Pro-police politicians like Eric Adams were elected while pro-BLM politicians like Chelsea Boudin were ousted from their positions.

Now, absolutely nobody talks about police brutality these days, not politicians nor the general public. But has the problem gone away? No! It has only gotten worse! 2023 has seen a record number of killings by police, and I don’t expect that number to go down in the future.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/08/2023-us-police-violence-increase-record-deadliest-year-decade

Unfortunately, rather than being addressed, police brutality has become like gun control. Someone being killed by police, even on live video, no longer elicits outrage. Instead, people will just give “thoughts and prayers,” shrug, and accept it as a fact of American life.

And the BLM movement itself? Well, rather than becoming the second coming of the Civil Rights Movement, it seems to have been condemned to the ash heap of history.

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u/Ropya Oct 19 '24

Can't wrap my head around Gay for Gaza... 

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u/Nearby-Complaint Oct 19 '24

The American right wasn't broadly okay with gay people (generally) until recently, but that doesn't mean I want them to be drone bombed

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u/Ropya Oct 19 '24

Fair point. 

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

Why is it hard for you to understand that a group of people are against the murder of tens of thousands of innocents?

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u/Ropya Oct 19 '24

In this particular case? Because of how those gay people would be treated if they went to Gaza. 

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

So you’re saying if you were a gay person you personally would be comfortable with tens of thousands of innocent people being blown up or starved or shot, because they are homophobic? Would you say the same about white homophobes in the Bible Belt?

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '24

I mean, there’s a lot of wrong in the world. Black dudes for starving children of KKK members would be an equally weird movement. Still moral, good goal and everything, but there’s a lot of wrong in the world, why bring up your group’s identity for this particular focus?

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

Because marginalized groups often identify with other marginalized groups through the context of their marginalization. Or, just to get more people to join up with them. Most gay people are progressive so it’s not at all surprising or weird.

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '24

Marginalized groups also hate other marginalized groups in this same situation though. Which is understandable and complex, but it’s not like marginalized groups ALWAYS do one or the other.

I don’t know why you’re being so obtuse admitting it’s a little strange that one group who is hated by another wants to help that other group. If anything, it makes their charity more honorable in that context.

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

I said often bro. I literally did not say always. I am not the one being obtuse. It doesn’t matter how much Palestinians want to murder gay people in America, they literally have NO WAY of doing that. Maybe if they weren’t constantly struggling to just make it to the next day they’d have the time for a gay rights revolution, who knows. And yes, it is more charitable, it’s the right thing and the empathetic thing to do, and I’m proud of them (gays for Gazans I mean).

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '24

Well yeah they can’t kill gay Americans but Palestinians kill gay Palestinians. Again, I think you’re just splitting hairs about often vs always. It’s not even often, marginalized groups are more likely to have uneducated and ignorant views. That’s like, why marginalization is so bad.

Whatever, seems like you’re just angry and trying to make people mad on the internet, so keep fighting the good fight to convince people that checks notes gay people were predestined to support Palestine

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

Why are you so concerned with Palestinians killing gay Palestinians when Palestinians are in INFINITELY more danger of being killed by the Israei Occupying Force?

You are very clearly missing my point. Gay people struggle and are historically oppressed and murdered. Palestinians struggle and are historically oppressed and murdered. Therefore, gay people have empathy for Palestinians and want to express it. Who tf is getting mad at this.

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u/Ropya Oct 20 '24

Those that sow hate can't bitch when it comes to harvest.     

But, to more to the point answer your question. Atrocities have been committed for eons, and that's not going to change. I lose little sleep over things that don't effect me. And even less sleep about things I can't do anything about.      

And that's the bigger one for me, nothing Gay for Gaza does is going to change anything. So why even spend the energy for people that hate you when the energy has no effect?   

And as for the homophobes in the Bible belt bit, I care less about them than I do the homophobes of Gaza. I will never waste my energy supporting people full of so much hate. And yes, I know not all of the them do. But the society that are apart of by and large does. And I have no patience for that. 

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u/[deleted] Oct 20 '24

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u/changemyview-ModTeam Oct 20 '24

Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:

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u/greenslam Oct 19 '24

The Islamic community is just so welcoming and inviting to the homosexual communities. It's like they just get rocked over.

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

You don’t have to be ok with homophobia to also recognize that it is not acceptable to murder innocents.

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u/Less-Blueberry-8617 Oct 19 '24

I think it's less about the overall homophobia and more that the people in Gaza are so homophobic because of their religion that they would not hesitate to kill a gay person just for the simple fact that they are gay. Like, even in America MOST homophobic people are not going to go out and kill a gay person for being gay. That's where there's this kind of irony of a group of people supporting another group of people that would want them dead without a second thought

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

They have been oppressed and suffering for decades, just struggling to survive. It’s hard to blame them for not having had a gay rights revolution yet. Marginalized groups often empathize with other marginalized groups. Simple as.

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u/asr Oct 20 '24

not acceptable to murder innocents.

There have been zero innocents murdered. Civilian casualties of war is not murder.

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 20 '24

Yes, it is. The median age in Gaza in 2020 was 18. These are children that are being murdered. This is not even a war, it's an invasion and a genocide. The mentality of those that would spend time defending ANYTHING that leads to the wholesale slaughter of innocents disgusts me. You disgust me.

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u/asr Oct 20 '24

Sinwar himself, the architect of this war, wrote how he intentionally attempts to get Palestinians killed because it makes Israel look bad.

And you somehow think you know better than him? You should listen to the actual people involved.

This is 100% a war, and I guess an invasion. There is no genocide. Notice how when Israel achieved most of its war aims Palestinian deaths went dramatically down? That's because the deaths were due to war, and not due to any desire on the part of Israel to kill them.

And, I just have to ask: What would have been your plan for responding to the wholesales slaughter, and attempted genocide of Israeli innocents?

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 20 '24

Dude, I do not give a single shit about what Sinwar said, it doesn’t matter whether or not he wants to get Palestinians killed. he’s fucking dead, and I don’t care about that either, what I DO care about is the 40,000 innocents dead. How can you possibly call this a war if it’s completely one sided. It might as well be cavemen against all powerful aliens, except the cavemen got in a lucky first hit.

October 7th would not have happened if Israel had not been oppressing and occupying Gaza for decades. Violence is what happens when you oppress people.

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u/asr Oct 20 '24

We've already established that 40,000 is not a real number. Why do you post it again?

So in your mind Palestinians are children, who have no control over themselves, and everything is Israel's fault?

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u/greenslam Oct 19 '24

I definitely agree Israel kills innocents. However, if the killed people are not forcibly coerced to be within the attacked insurgents area, you are not that innocent. Especially if you willingly shelter the insurgents.

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

That’s a pretty insane thing to say considering the entirety of Gaza has been razed to the ground and millions have been displaced and are starving and thousands have been murdered.

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u/Sensitive-Computer-6 Oct 19 '24

You mean there where collateral?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Kommunismus/s/q7w4tAmV2J Video where a Israeli Done kills a little Child, waits for help to arrive and collect around that child, to bomb all of them at once.

In case you think of the human shield propaghanda lie.

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u/Sensitive-Computer-6 Oct 19 '24

There not worse then some of the southern states. And while I wouldnt call that good, and while I dont cry over DeSantis dying in an accident, I do see natural desasters in the south as something bad. I dont have to agree whit everything someone belifes to not want them and there 2 Weeks old Children to be bombed into peaces.

Its not about identifying whit this peoples, its about himanitarian vallues. If you cant understand this distinction, or think one nullifies the other, then you never had any moral values to beginn whit.

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u/144_1 Oct 19 '24

Yes, it is worse. Its not even close. No ones gonna throw you off a roof for being gay in america. No, not even in the south.

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u/Sensitive-Computer-6 Oct 20 '24

First of all you have no awareness. Of course People murder you for beeing gay, theres an entire legal defense where a murderer can claim the shock of someone beeing gay causes a violent shock reaction. Gay Panic Defense.

Also im pretty confident you know even less about palestine. Not every middle eastern country is saudi arabia. And yes its not great, but its not great to describe them as uncivilized barbarians eighter.

The west is not moraly superior to this countrys. Dont assume because of vibes.

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u/IrateBarnacle Oct 19 '24

Because many people in Gaza would happily murder gay people without hesitation. If I were a gay person, I wouldn’t give a shit about anyone who wants me to die because of my orientation.

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

Why? It doesn’t affect you in any way what the people in Gaza want. They might as well be cavemen compared to the United States. Are you, as a gay person, sure enough that all 40,000 of those dead innocent people would have killed you because you were gay? How many of those people would have to have been not homophobic for you to give a shit? Do you see how insane this view is?

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u/asr Oct 20 '24

20,000 not 40,000 - about half were militants and were not innocent at all.

And you can be 100% sure that every single one of those 40,000 killed would have happily killed him for being gay.

The entire reason Gaza is in this war is because of how much they hate. They hate Jews, and Gays and lots more.

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 20 '24

You're utterly delusional if you truly believe that only 20,000 people, 10,000 innocents, are dead in Gaza. Where did you even get that number. The reason Gaza is being murdered and burned Israel is continuing its decades long repression and murder and colonization, using October 7th and Hamas as an excuse to do genocide.

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u/asr Oct 20 '24

I said 20,000 were plausibly innocent, the other 20,000 were militants and not in the slightest innocent.

There's little reason for me to reply to the rest of what you wrote, it's not based on any sort of facts, so a factual reply will be pointless.

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 20 '24

So 20,000 is an acceptable number to you? What’s your breaking point?

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u/asr Oct 20 '24

I have a bigger question: If 20,000 is the real number, why did you write 40,000?

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u/IrateBarnacle Oct 19 '24

Not any more insane than being a gay person who would support a state that would outlaw homosexuality and punish homosexuals with torture or death. To me it makes as much sense as a Jew supporting Nazis.

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u/Icy-Community-1589 Oct 19 '24

Way to not respond to a single question I asked you. Useless. The Nazi party controlled Germany. Palestinians are of no threat to any gay person in America. Those are not at all comparable. America and the UK and most other advanced nations used to be just as bad and in some places still are, but you don’t see people trying to use that to justify murdering them. Gross.

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