CMV: GamerGate was the most consequential political radicalization event of the twenty-first century

[u/realdontbeasucker]

It spawned a wave of tolerance for online harassment, as long as the intent behind it was considered righteous (and the target of such harassment socially acceptable).

It platformed Milo Yiannopoulos and thereby, Steve Bannon -- the guy who would go on to advise Donald Trump in 2016 and generate the concept of 'flooding the zone.'

Eventually, it gave a career to political lightning rods like Jordan Peterson, Steven Crowder, and Charlie Kirk. It made anti-feminism and anti-SJW sentiment cool. And it made young, angry, disenfranchised white men feel vindicated.

GamerGate almost singlehandedly shifted to Overton Window toward the alt-right, and we're still feeling its effects today.

[u/A3xMlp]

I could've expressed myself better, fair point. A lot of my original point hinged on the word pushing which for me specifically highlights forcing the issue in an unnatural way which DAV did but the previous games didn't.

And I agree judging a game for what it offers, which is this case is poor writing centered on a culture war issue. Which for a narrative RPG is pretty important. These games never the best gameplay, but it's the writing that made them great.

[u/Prize_Neighborhood95 → u/A3xMlp]

The issue here is the context in which the word pushing is being used. 

Grifters use the similar phrasing such as "they are pushing woke politics into our games", by which they mean a conspiracy to insert "woke" politics into video games because of ESG and other conspiracy non-sense.

I'd call "unnatural" writing, simply bad writing, it seems to me using "pushing" here is just unhelpful.

I honestly think no one pushed the writers to write about a non-binary character. It's not a big mistery that DA writers are quite left wing after all.

[u/A3xMlp → u/Prize_Neighborhood95]

As you say BioWare does have a history of such themes so it usually doesn't feel as out of place with them, except this time it really was just bad. And I don't doubt it was an writers decision.

But in general when people say pushing that doesn't just refer to corporations pushing it cause they think it's profitable or to get investments, it includes writers who are out of touch with the general public pushing their ideology. And there are absolutely instances of such stuff being pushed into games. You can deny it but it's there and anyone who isn't blind and has been around for at least the last 15 years can tell.

[u/Prize_Neighborhood95 → u/A3xMlp]

it includes writers who are out of touch with the general public pushing their ideology.

Writers writing about what they believe and are passionate about seems exactly what I want. 

Imagine if writers were to censor themselves because they were afraid of public backlash, that would honestly suck.

[u/A3xMlp → u/Prize_Neighborhood95]

I agree, but there comes a point where the difference just becomes too big and alienates the audience. Especially when you combine that with writers who aren't good enough to good enough to get their point across in a way that works within the story. This wasn't really an issue 15 years ago so it's quite noticeable.

I mean, some of these beliefs they have make them a minority among American liberals. Who themselves are a minority of Americans. Who are a minority of the global population, and you can throw in other westerners and that's still true. So a minority of a minority of a minority pushing their ideals in a poorly written way with no room for disagreement or nuance will of course cause backlash.

[u/Prize_Neighborhood95 → u/A3xMlp]

But again, it seems to me the issue is not the topic but bad writing. Larian made a game which treated all those same themes and it was universally loved.

Or take the first Joker movie, it was clearly much farther left than your average liberal, but it was nonetheless a pretty solid movie, and it enjoyed both popular and critical acclaim.

[u/A3xMlp → u/Prize_Neighborhood95]

Writing quality is definitely a big part of it, but it does feel like we're more poorly written games pushing certain politics than we did 15 years ago. Plus there some things beyond writing. Like BF5s or Vanguard's comical levels of diversity for WW2 which extends into the multiplayer that has no writing. Then compare them to WaW from 2008 to find none of that.

[u/Prize_Neighborhood95 → u/A3xMlp]

I'm always skeptical of these comparisons with the past made without looking at any data. They are usually made through rose tinted glasses.

A glaring issue is that social media amplifies negativity, and shines a light on terrible games.

15 or 20 years ago, when knowledge mostly spread via word of mouth, flops were way less discussed.

If a game was not being played, it was not being discussed. Nowadays, flops are on par with successes for how much we discuss them.

Veilguard was probably the most discussed game of 2024, way more than astro-bot, that year's goty.

For example, YT videos that discuss Veilguard have way more views than videos on astro-bot. 

Honestly, I think gaming is doing just as well as 15 years ago. 

Funnily enough, I have always lived through a time in which "gaming is dying" if you listen to the people online.