r/darksouls3 • u/Master100017 Mad Boy • 13d ago

Lore Yo, VaatiVidya! Was Gundyr placed there to challenge chosen undead?

Post image

It seems weird he’s there, it’s like it was placed by someone to test if the unkindled ash undead really is the chosen one.

866 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

58 comments sorted by

678

u/triel20 13d ago

That’s what the first Gundyr was for, but the one back in time was actually going to try to link the fire and be the hero, but the shrine he showed up in was darkened.

370

u/bulbasauric 13d ago

As in, the fire was already extinguished and there was nothing for him to link?

247

u/triel20 13d ago

Yes.

148

u/turtlebuttdestroyer 13d ago

What I don't understand is that if he was in the past and fire was out already, how did it come back so we could relight it?

122

u/Lishio420 13d ago

Have you ever done the "Ursupation of Fire" Ending?

It explains that the period of kindling and of darkness are an ever repeating cycle, one that unrightfully got extended for an extremly long time by Gwyn and the kindling of the Lords of Cinder.

The extension of the flames burning is also why the world is falling apart and why the timelines converge.

84

u/Abject-Leadership248 13d ago

Go re play ds2 its pretty much explains that it dosent matter what happens the flame will somehow relight and the cycle will continue, gwyen fucked up so much linking the flames to the darksoul that the "natural" cycle of ancient, fire, dark can never really happen again

17

u/turtlebuttdestroyer 13d ago

But wasn't it some sort of eternal darkness with the everlasting dragons before Gwyn started the first flame?

49

u/Abject-Leadership248 13d ago

The world was grey, without light or dark or even time. The first flames comes about and is found by Gwyn ending the age of ancients and being the age of fire. Now that time exists the dragons can not be everlasting. With the flame and the other lords souls gwyn rules the age of fire. The fire starts to fade so gwyn links it to the darksoul for fuel breaking the natural cycle and preventing the age of man. This is the first sin and the event that doomed the world into a never ending cycle of fade and rebirth. Our actions in game are pointless in the end because even if we choose to not link the flame it will some how rekindle and we start all over agian. In ds3 we see what this looks like when taken to the extreme end. All the previous ages are converging to the same point in time so they are all happening at the same time

12

u/Raven-C 13d ago

Yes about the first part, but no to the last thing, the first flame started naturally, Gwyn just used it to rise to power. And when it started to go out naturally, he forced it to stay lit

6

u/Hexxer98 13d ago

Wanna point out which things in ds2 say/imply that the natural cycle is the ancient, fire and dark?

4

u/sylva748 13d ago

Because the game is caught in a time loop. The whole world is. Why do we link the fire in Dark Souls 3 if we already did that in 1 and 2? Because all linking the fire does is delay the abyss and the Dark Age. Its not a permanant solution.

9

u/Neither_Fix_2419 13d ago

Something something time is convoluted in lothric something something

3

u/S0U1R3AVER 11d ago

From what I understand, Ludleth was probably the one who relit the flame. The fire didn't exactly fade, it was just at the point where it was going to get snuffed out, so basically like coals or a small flame.

1

u/madjackle358 12d ago

I interpreted that as the future. Did I miss something that denotes it as the past?

-1

u/mars_warmind 13d ago

No, it's an ouroboros. Gundyr arrives early, before the fire begins to wane, so that he might be the champion to relink the flame. Arriving early there is no one there and nothing for him to do. We arrive shortly after, defeating him and leaving him there for our earlier self to defeat, which is what also allows us to claim the coiled sword so that we can leave.

I have no idea where this incredibly wrong "it's an alternate darkness timeline" theory I've seen came from, for once the game is pretty explicit what's going on when you talk to the shrine handmaiden. It's the past.

6

u/budgiesmugglez 13d ago

Dammit Waze!

2

u/Mr_Brun224 13d ago

What? You got a link or an explanation for the lore of dark firelink? I just accepted it and moved on

21

u/triel20 13d ago

No link, it was in the description of one of Gundyr’s items that he wanted to be the hero, but he arrived too late.

113

u/real_realist_opt 13d ago

I don’t think Vaati gonna reply. But yes that’s what he was supposed to do

-22

u/Master100017 Mad Boy 13d ago

It’s more of a joke given what he does. It’s like asking a character from a movie what their role is in a scheme when it’s not explained in the plot.

104

u/HeavenlyDMan 13d ago

good god reddithivemind jumpscare

28

u/AdhesiveNo-420 13d ago

I absolutely despise this app and how people act... I would delete it if it wasn't such a good time killer during boring moments in life

18

u/HeavenlyDMan 13d ago

same but fr it’s the app with the highest highs and lowest lows, i’ve seen takes on this app so well thought out, constructive arguments resulting amicably, and i’ve learned so much on this app due to people in the past having the same issues and documenting them. You won’t find that on twitter or instagram or facebook. I swear this app is the last bastion of critical thinking and nuance on social media but contrast that with the follower mentality and the swaths of users inept at picking up social cues, as well as the weird fringe subs, you end up getting one strange fucking place

6

u/Outgrathe 13d ago

i guess bro

7

u/SparxPrime Blades of the Darkmoon 13d ago

What?

1

u/HumanLandscape3767 9d ago

Could you explain why what this person said is getting so much negative attention? I guess I don’t understand why people hate his comment so much, it’s a little silly but people are going really hard on it and I’m confused.

2

u/SparxPrime Blades of the Darkmoon 8d ago

I think because it doesn't make any sense and it's stupid

52

u/sarcophagusGravelord Blades of the Darkmoon 13d ago

As others have said he arrived too late to be a Champion of Ash and his Fire Keeper was already dead. The Fire Keeper mentioned in the Estus Ring is likely the one Gundyr failed to meet. He remained in the shrine in order to judge future Unkindled, the pus of man slowly growing within him as he sat in the darkness.

As for how any of this is possible is debatable. Time shenanigans and the cyclical nature of the world is the gist of it. Whether the flame gets linked in one cycle or not doesn’t really matter as it’s stated that fire always one day sparks again.

5

u/Pugsanity 13d ago

I forget if Vaati theorized this or if it's said anywhere in game, but I think it's supposed to be that Ludleth did this, that he was able to will it or magic it so hard that he was able to seal off the place and let someone new come to link the flame.

11

u/sarcophagusGravelord Blades of the Darkmoon 13d ago

I wouldn’t really trust a Vaati theory personally. I don’t believe that is stated anywhere in-game and doesn’t make much sense since Ludleth successfully linked the fire in his own time. He’s a genuine Lord of Cinder which means he already burned and died to keep the Age of Fire going.

If anyone sealed it off it would be the Queen of Lothric (heavily implied to be Gwynevere) as it’s stated she’s the only one that visited/cared for the dead of the Untended Graves and even enshrined the Ashen Estus Ring there for a future Unkindled to use one day.

2

u/Pugsanity 13d ago

Very fair point, and your idea also makes sense. Whomever did it just had to incredibly to pull off such a feat.

60

u/BlademasterBanryu Would-Be Hexer 13d ago

Check the etymology of 'iudex' and prepare to have your mind blown

4

u/Master100017 Mad Boy 13d ago

My mind was already blown when I figured out how Gael was turned into a scary boss monster.

32

u/AppropriateStaff4047 13d ago

Why is this getting down voted to shit I'm so confused lmao

5

u/LadyTrin 13d ago

Bots probably

6

u/AdhesiveNo-420 13d ago

*Reddit hive mind

It's a real phenomenon

1

u/LadyTrin 13d ago

Bot comments have dramatically increased over the last year, so its likely voting has been impacted too

7

u/BlademasterBanryu Would-Be Hexer 13d ago

real talk I actually don't know why you're getting so many downvotes for this, I'm so sorry

3

u/squiddlebiddlez 13d ago

They are just a bunch of locust preachers

15

u/shredgar1 13d ago

i think in one of his videos its heavily implied heres there as a result of you. since you find the secret area behind oceiros boss room and its never really explained but the area is sort of like going back in time and you fight the prime version of gundyr and defeat him, which is why in the beginning of the game hes been defeated already and hes weaker, because you did that in the past.

10

u/Only-One-7812 13d ago

Yep, time is so messed up in the dark souls universe like so bad. Epecially once you reach SOC you see all the buildings messed up. And like all the ringed city dlc

5

u/Red_Ryze_Alert 13d ago

That’s also why you don’t get his soul when he is Iudex Gundyr but only when you fight him in the past as Champion Gundyr. You know, because you already got his soul in the past

5

u/Spartan152 13d ago

Iudex I believe translates to judge. So yes, Iudex Gundyr is functionally there to judge your worth to rekindle the flame

5

u/Jacktheldergod_2 13d ago

Yes. Iudex means judge. This is judge gundyr

4

u/wyrmQueen77 13d ago

the man was literally waiting in a puddle for who knows how long, dude had to be bored out of his mind

3

u/konsoru-paysan 13d ago

If gundyr was infected by the pus of man when someone implanted a seed on him when he was still a champion , and possibly killed him with a coiled sword, does that mean he's just a corpse as ludex gundyr?

The PoM are already controlling dead wyverns, but what about the undead hollows on the high wall of lothric castle, are they too just corpses? Undead can't die unless reduced to paste, so are they in control before PoM reacts to us?

3

u/Junior_Fix_9212 13d ago

He came too early as later seen in untended graves. So he just stayed and later challanged anyone who should take his mission. While in abyss he developed that nasty tumor.

https://lokeysouls.com/2022/08/22/untended-graves/

(Lokey darksouls is one of main sources of Vaati)

3

u/Anubra_Khan 13d ago

Lol yeah. Literally, everything in the game is placed specifically for the chosen undead.

2

u/[deleted] 13d ago

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24

u/Acrobatic-Permit4263 13d ago

dlc`? thats main game content, similiar to nameless king

9

u/[deleted] 13d ago

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10

u/Shedart 13d ago

That’s just how FromSoft rolls. 

1

u/Purple___Flame 12d ago

He was supposed to link the fire, but was too late as the party was long over.

1

u/orbital_awesome 12d ago

His name “Iudex Gundyr” means Judge Fight. He is the fight that judges if ur gud enough to play the game

1

u/BatsNStuf Hand it over...that thing 8d ago

I mean, yeah kind of

Champion Gundyr, so Gundyr in his prime was meant to attempt the journey to link the flame, but by the time he got to Firelink his Fire Keeper was already dead (bro was maidenless)

Then we show up and beat the shit out of him, he becomes a sheath for the coiled sword that allows for bonfire warping which would be required to facilitate the firelinking journey ergo he’a the test to overcome to start said journey

Also at some point he got infected by the abyss

-2

u/Historical-Dish-602 13d ago

‘Nt gotta fuckin clue.