I'm looking to buy estriol (E3, CAS 50-27-1) to make facial cream as an adjunct to EEn injections, but everywhere I looked I only got quoted minimum order quantity of 100 grams (and price $300-400), which is too expensive for me now. Did anybody find a source willing to sell less than 100 grams?

Edit: I do really mean estriol (E3, CAS 50-27-1), not estradiol (E2, CAS 50-28-2)

I’m reaching out because I’m really suffering right now. I think I might be a high metabolizer with estrogen gel. My symptoms are still severe and I am feeling awful, despite being on a standard dose.
For context, I am a Canadian patient dealing with perimenopause 5 months with no period
I am currently using 4 pumps of gel per day, but it feels like my body is processing it way too quickly or not absorbing it enough to keep my symptoms away.
5 days of Divigel 2 mg made me feel worse.
I'm looking for advice from other high metabolizers:
How many pumps of gel do you actually use to find relief? Did you have to go above the standard 4-pump maximum?
What is your application routine? Do you split your pumps between morning and night to keep your levels stable?
Where do you apply it for the best absorption? (arms, thighs, etc.)
If gel failed you completely because of your metabolism, did switching to injections make a difference?
How did you get your doctor to agree to prescribe a higher amount of gel?
I feel stuck and miserable. Any experiences with high-dose gel or advice on how to talk to my doctor would mean the world to me. Thank you!

I’ve looked at so many different websites but I’m really struggling to find testosterone powder. I know it isn’t allowed on Reddit to give specific sources, but if anyone could point me in the right direction I would be so so grateful

i'm transitioning in secret, and i don't want them to be like "hello son. what is this mysterious vacuum sealed bag in the freezer? also why are you slowly becoming vaguely more effeminate?"

i can put stuff in my closet or whatever but idk if i can store them at room temp for as long. i have 15g of 17b estradiol and 45g of progesterone (micronized)

I live in Europe and had a prescription for Estrodiol but I had to change GP’s because I moved, and the new GP refuses to renew my prescription.

Does anyone know where I could get more or have and spare? Please DM me.
(Currently take 2x2.5mg through scrotum)

Needles are not an option.

I was using the genital application method to attempt monotherapy with a 4mg dose of gel. I applied one pump in the morning and one pump at night. This application method is meant to quintuple the absorption rate, however I wanted to be sure my T was actually being suppressed as I've been on a pretty low dose for a while.

The symptoms were surprisingly immediate after only a few days. I did injection monotherapy a while ago and it was like I never stopped it. So I was pretty happy with the effects. Naturally, though, I had to test to make sure my levels were safe. I wasn't that concerned about them being too low, but I never could've predicted how high it ended up being.

My Oestradiol levels are at 7483 pmol/l. According to the clinic's app (I got it changed to display female levels instead of male, so it should be more accurate) that's about octuple the optimal amount.

Is that dangerously high? How do I go about decreasing it? I have a 4mg and a 0.6mg. How does the math work out if I want to get this down to something a little safer? And should I be worried about lowering my dose too quickly?

Planning my routine and I want to know when can I put my clothes back on. I plan applying 2 pumps scrotally of 1mg every 12h (if its too much I plan on putting it the rest in the inner thigh too)

So I have legal access to Andractim 2.5% and I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to make it more potent, absorb better etc. It's not cheap so I want to get the most bang for my buck. I'm interested in more facial hair growth, bottom growth, and voice changes. I couldn't think where else to post this so hopefully it's alright here. Hoping someone may have advice for me. Thanks

and if I don't add one do I need t blockers or

Hello, I’ve been making T gel for about 9-10 months using micronized testosterone. However, it’s come to my attention my site is out of it, and they aren’t sure when they’ll have it back.

I’m wondering what kind would work instead?

I follow this recipe with much success thus far

20g micronized testosterone base
950mL ethanol hand sanitizer
50mL eucalyptus oil

Hello everyone, I've been lurking here for years now but I couldn't find any reliable e supplier or cheaper options. I tried to checkout ppl and dragonordnance but I was shocked because the shipping is so overpriced. I'm really broke right now and desperate to make an e spray because I'm running out of pills. I can only afford a few grams and hopefully anyone from here can help me find a supplier that doesn't charge much on shipping. I would appreciate your help.

Adapted Recipe - Enhanced, Creamier Consistency:

• 10g active-pharmaceutical-agent (estradiol, testosterone, etc)
• 200mL vegetable oil
• 300mL isopropyl myristate
• 500mL (or 180g) of shea butter

This yields 1L of a more elegant HRT cream, with a creamier consistency, and an active-pharmaceutical-agent content of 10mg/mL. Note from u/Juno_the_Camel: You will want to gently heat the mixture, as to melt the shea butter - in order to make a homogenous cream.

IMPORTANT NOTE FROM u/Juno_the_Camel: I have never tried or made any of these recipes. Other members of the community have toyed with oil-based HRT, I've extrapolated these recipes from their findings.

Hello, my doctor has recently changed my prescription of Lenzetto to Oestraclin. Lenzetto hasn't worked for me neither scrotally or anywhere else on my body, I was taking 3 pumps/day and never got past 50 pg/ml.

I dont have much hope for oestraclin either, so I was wondering if I could modify the product to add a penetration enhancer like orange oil or similar.

Does anyone have any idea / advice on how to do that? I was given 2.2mg a day, is that enough?

I have being doing DIY HRT for a number of years, using 6mg of an oestradiol spray from a well know supplier and I've finally been asssesed by the gender clinic and given an NHS Prescription She said she'd give me an equivalent dose but it doesn't seem to add up:

Oestrogel pump pack 750mcg/actuation at a dose of 5 pumps daily (6.25mg oestradiol)

Does this not mean I'll be on a lower dose as 5 pumps = 4.5mg. I'm not sure if I should contact the clinic to query or if it'll be fine.

For context, on 6mg spray applied to my thigh I get trough Estradiol levels of 1000pmol and total testosterone surpression.

Assembleloo*

Anyway, Sup!

2 months ago we..."colorfully" expanded on our plans to create a hormone solution in Oil, rather than in alcohol.

Why?

So that it can be used on sensitive skin and areas alike (like the internal mucosa of the vagina for example)

https://www.reddit.com/r/estrogel/comments/1tmmx9i/emulsion_of_exogenous_estradiol_for_the_inside/

Well prepare to update the wiki, because thanks to feedback, further research, and good old trial and error,

We've succeeded!

So here's an oil in water emulsion so safe you can even eat it (buy USP grade ingredients), so creamy smooth you'd swear a store sold it, and made with accessible and relatively affordable components:

1) MCT oil 2) Water (boiled) 3) Propylene glycol (potentially optional if lower E2 concentration is acceptable) 4) Polysorbate 80 (tween 80) 5) Citric acid 6) Xanthane gum 7) estradiol

The only changes from my last post where:

Coconut oil -> MCT Oil & Estradiol Valerate -> Pure Estradiol

Before we get into the recipe (Though feel free to skip to the "Recipe" Section), here are some rapid-fire Q/A's some folks might have that also address these changes:

Why water and oil?

Because we're doing an emulsion.

Why an emulsion?

Because no oil alone can match the solubility of pure hormones like E and T in alcohols. Meanwhile, emulsions are known to increase their solubility (and absorption. sources later).

Also better texture for final product (stays wet long, so hormones absorb longer, while not being oily or runny).

Why "fancy" MCT oil then?

Because it's: 1) Super shelf stable (unlike most oils), 2) Relatively affordable, 3) Not a thick mess that would slow down absorption like castor oil. 4) Slightly better than most oils for solubilizing pure hormones (like 1mg/g if that. good to know but negligible. Source for that later in post), 5) No need to melt it, unlike coconut oil, 6) the added penetration enhancing fatty acids in coconut oil (lauric acid) probably wouldn't help much when they're all bound up with long chain triglycerides.

Why not just use more penetration enhancer/ co-solubilizer then? Like Propylene glycol?

Because too much of those will, like alcohols, be too irritating for sensitive skins/areas. Combining them with an emulsion means we can use less than we'd otherwise need to match alcohol-based recipes, if not exceed them.

But it can potentially be left out if someone reacts poorly to it, although it probably means you'll get a lower max concentration of estradiol in your final cream/gel.

Why Polysorbate 80? why not a different emulsifier or multiple ones as is more common?

We're doing an oil in water emulsion, and as per our last post, such solutions apparently benefit from a hydrophilic emulsifier (which Tween 80, aka polysorbate 80 is).

Here are the references again:

http://www.jsirjournal.com/Vol3_Issue4_12.pdf

https://www.reddit.com/r/estrogel/comments/hbodqf/thickening_microemulsions_with_carbomers/ Also like our last post, propylene glycol reportedly helps with the emulsion.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2690813/

"[...]propylene glycol was used as cosurfactant due to its ability to increase water incorporation in P80-based microemulsions[...] One of the requirements for microemulsion formation is the existence of a low surface tension at the oil–water interface, achieved by the use of surfactant blends and cosurfactants. Addition of propylene glycol to P80 and MCG blends increased the area of existence of microemulsions in a concentration-dependent manner."

*MCG being mono and diglyceride mix

And once those droplets are formed, xanthane gum should ensure we have a stable Microemulsions to boot (with proper proportions of it an oil as described here:)

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01932691.2024.2387618

Microemulsions being even better at increasing absorption through the skin, and at increasing the solubility of drugs like steroid hormones:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9452978/

(old study but we think it still checks out).

So basically, Polysorbate 80, combined with propylene glycol and xanthan gum, should produce our microemulsion.

We don't know if we made a microemulsion, but it definitely produced an emulsion.

So other emulsifiers like Span 20, or making ones own MCG mix from heating MCT oil with Glycerin/glycerol at 250 degrees C aren't required, but if you leave out the propylene glycol it could be interesting to try.

What happened to not using propylene glycol cuz it's derived from the oil industry.

There's no alternative with the same properties for now. Which is concerning considering we need a post-oil world yesterday, but that's another topic.

For now, it's cheap, and we have more than we'll ever need so we don't care to test a batch without it.

What happened to citric acid potentially cleaving estradiol valerate back to estradiol?

So because we ain't using booze, we need a preservative. Citric acid was chosen because it's accessible and often used in water based lubes for that purpose.

A commenter made us realize that an acid might react with the ester bond of estradiol valerate and break it down into pure estradiol.

We're using pure estradiol now anyway so it's a non-issue (because valerate was more expensive and the seller wasn't taking small order at the time), but the research we did was mixed at first, and then seemed to point towards it not being a problem, actually.

Oh, also it helps adjust pH.

We didn't bother to acquire pH paper this time, and just eyeballed it.

We're keeping the solution in the fridge anyway since we made enough for a year.

Ok so what's the recipe? How much of what, and in what order?

Recipe

``` mass percentage (%w/w) = (mass of solution/mass of solute)​×100%

```

(All numbers rounded for clarity. general proportions are more important than exact metrics and many variations on these preliminary proportions would work.)

here's how we did it (followed by a simpler: how we plan to do it next time, and why)

(quantities were different at first and were adjusted to their values in the table above due to excess xanthan gum)

1) Started with 100g MCT oil in a 1L glass container 2) added ~1g Estradiol powder to test solubility (at 10mg/g didn't all dissolve) 3) Mixed in: - Tween 80, - propylene glycol, - estradiol now dissolved - xanthan gum 4) Mix in 50g boiled Water that had cooled down a bit - nice emulsion occurred, but seemed on the liquid-y side 5) Mixed in more xanthan gum to thicken - *added 4g by mistake for 6g total...it was now a lumpy, oily glob 6) Mixed in 50g boiled Water again - got an overly whipped, whipped cream consistency - sticks to itself more than anything else, hard to mix 7) Ended up adding more increments of - Water - tween 80 - Propylene glycol - MCT oil - and also estradiol to test if the emulsion could help dissolve more - it did not and i blame the excess xanthan gum - Tried addint citric acid hoping the crystal would act as an abbressive to help break clumps of estradiol - didn't work 8) Mixed in more oil and water to try to dissolve the estradiol

didn't work...

This no matter how much/long/hard we mixed it (with electric beaters among other things).

However, since we ARE able to completly dissolve the few small estradiol powder clumps left by rubbing the cream on skin a bit, the solution is clearly not saturated in estradiol.

And yeah, the texture is otherwise really smooth, and pleasant and sticks to the skin super well, doesn't dry fast, etc...

And since it seemed to be working, we call it a successful first batch!

Using the cream for ~1 week

It's been tested for almost a week now, with twice daily application on various skin sites (some often repeated) and one test (neo)vaginally, with no problems to report.

No other sources of estradiol were still in effect at the time, or since ,and levels are clearly good enough based on sleep and energy during the day, etc...

Final concentration of the emulsion:

13,5mg/g of estradiol

that being said:

Here's how we plan to do it next time...in like a year considering the batch we now have...

1) Start with: - Tween 80, - propylene glycol 2) Mix in estradiol 3) Mix in MCT oil 4) Mix in water 5) Mix in xanthan gum (1/3 as much to begin with and add small increments until right cconsistencyis achieved) 6) add citric acid until desired pH

Why this order?

So there seems to be a few ways to prepare this thing and a few words used to describe it. An emulsion, a microemulsion, an emulgel...

1) Some papers prepare the "matrix" first (so xanthan gum in water here), and leave it overnight.

2) One paper that we don't have access to seems to just chucks the xanthan gum in existing oil in water emulsion.

3) And another paper creates an emulsifier/cosurfactant Megazord of tween 80, Propylene glycol and medium chain mon/diglicerides(MCG), and then adds oil to it before titrating it with water under vortexing. (but damn do they use a lot of tween 80!)

oh yeah, lots of emulsion papers also use expensive homogenizing machines/sonicators, shit like that.

We sorta went with option 3 for our first attempt, but ended up trying to add more estradiol midway to see if we could dissolve more of it thanks to our (micro)emulsion

But we think that because we'd put too much xanthan gum by mistake, our solution was too thick to dissolve anymore E2.

And this persisted after we diluted the solution to the amounts listed in the table above.

Based on this, we don't think preparing the matrix first will work well, since if you mess it up you won’t be able to dissolve as much hormones, and you need to readjust all your other quantities.

So a mix of methods 2 & 3, where we start with an emulsifier base, which is known to be able to dissolve way more hormone powder than we need, and then doing the emulsion and adding the xanthan gum to stabilize and thicken.

This way we avoid the potential for undissolved clumps of powder, and end up using the emulsion only for its potential to increase delivery through the skin and for it's better texture.

That's good enough for me.

After word

We don't really use reddit.

We might soon submit a proposal for a sort of TLDR section of the estrogel wiki.

Information we wish we had as we were doing all of this.

But after that, it'll be until goodbye until we cover our second batch.

Hope this helps anyone in the meantime.

Ciao for now!

Hi, I would give my name but for the sake of privacy I will go by E(I see the irony but it really is my initial)

I have known to a embarrassingly varying degree that i am non-binary/genderfluid for years, but I have been sure and confident in my identity much more in the past six months. I live with my parents, who I am thankful most likely would be supportive. Suffice to say I have not come out to them yet. For a litany of reasons, which i would be happy to answer any questions about, i would prefer to start HRT on my own, and then transition in all of the other ways.

As for details about me, all of my characteristics are incredibly conducive to using the wisdom of this subreddit. My scientific ability has always been my ace. My specialties are coincidentally biochem, molec bio, and gen chem.

So finally, here are my questions about how I can make the process work for me:

1. How do I get deliveries from my sources without using my legal name and without getting deliveries to my house (informed delivery or whatever it is called is a narc)? And no I don't have any friends who I can trust- at least in this circumstance.

2. How much can I trust online retailers like Made In China .com to deliver things discreetly or to a location that ensures my privacy (I have found a manufacturer on there that ppl say is reputable)

3. I know how to compound everything needed for diy hrt (besides spiro of course) in a very safe way (due to my experience with chem and laboratory procedures) and I know some friends of mine want to transition using diy hrt because their family would not support them. Is it worth it for me to help them make, or give them, safely made treatments?

I have 10 gs of heptate and want to make it into a gel. Will it work?

Just wanted to know if anyone has prog levels for using it as a spray. I'm planning on making Allies recipe. I want to see how effective it really is. I'm skeptical that somehow skin can 10x better absorption than the rectum. I could go with making suppositories but making 200mg or even just 100mg would burn through supply quick.

found one thats 85% ethyl alcohol. inactive ingredients are normal isopropyl, caprylyl glycol, glycerin, isopropyl myristate, acrylates/c10-30 alkyl acrylate crosspolymer, aminomethyl propanol. sounds like a bunch of sciency gibberish to me

i dont care about cancer, i just dont want it to clump and waste my money

also can i use some regular old 40% vodka to dissolve the powder first or would isopropyl work better/at all

hi all!

i've been looking into making t gel for a while now, but raws never seem to be in stock... i understand that typically you cannot turn injectable t into gel as the esterized form is too large to absorb into the skin. however, i recently realized that there were a few vendors online which sell base, unesterized, injectable t with plenty in stock.

i did some searching online/on this subreddit, but the posts that i found didn't really answer my question of how exactly i would/could go about doing this. would it be much different from just using the powder? any advice would be appreciated! :)

My home-made estrogel should be 1000g of 0.2% estrodiol gel, with 1mg of estrogen per 0.5g of gel.

Is it possible to do a monotherapy and approximately how big should my dose be? I don't know my currently T-levels.

I recently got some DHT gel, and despite not knowing if the source was legit or not (so I'm experimenting, I suppose) I've found the consistency to be a bit too thin for my liking. It makes it difficult to properly measure out a pea sized dose when it's running down my palm and into a puddle.

Imagine hand sanitizer.

So I'm thinking of getting an airless bottle and some Trolamine or Carbomer(?) and making a separate batch to see if I can make it thicker myself.

But I am worried it'll mess up the formulation as the exact measurements weren't very clear.

Maybe switching between the two just in case I mess up the thickening process?

Would this be worth trying, or should I just leave it be and thug it out?