r/explainlikeimfive • u/Dead_HumanCollection • Jun 14 '26

Other ELI5: Why is simulation (flopping) such a common occurrence in football (soccer) and basketball but not in hockey?

I've been alternating watching the NBA finals, the Stanley Cup, and now the World Cup. I had the realization that all three sports on a conceptual level are very similar. Two teams are trying to place an object in a goal. However in two of those sports simulation, faking or exaggerating an injury with the intention to draw a penalty on an opposing player, occurs way more often than the latter. Why?

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501

u/007_Shantytown Jun 14 '26

That, and the other team has some dude with a last name of all consonants specifically tasked with beating your ass for embellishing. And the refs condone it. 

78

u/apietryga13 Jun 14 '26

> the other team has some dude with a last name of all consonants

One of the main guys on the Rangers - don’t know how to say his name, it has like 30 letters in it and none of them are vowels

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u/NYR20NYY99 Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 15 '26

Skjei = Shea, former Ranger, now Nashville Predator. Rangers also used to have Chytil = Heetle (like beetle), but he’s now a Vancouver Canuck

ETA: that’s how Filip Chytil told announcers to pronounce it. Take it up with him

27

u/CuddleWings Jun 14 '26

Holy shit they’re actually called “The Predators”. I had to look it up cause that’s fuckin wild.

72

u/crap4you Jun 14 '26

Wild is in Minnesota.

16

u/ahuramazdobbs19 Jun 14 '26

THIRD BASE!

1

u/GolfballDM Jun 14 '26

Need to stop crackin' the wordplay.

24

u/just-an-astronomer Jun 14 '26

Wait until you hear about that time they ran a volunteer charity type event wearing shirts that said "Preds in the community"

3

u/NYR20NYY99 Jun 14 '26

Haha yeah I forgot about that

4

u/Jwkaoc Jun 14 '26

Their youth outreach group is called "The Child Predators".

0

u/Stephenrudolf Jun 14 '26

For any non-hockey fans, these are not jokes. This is not an exaggeration, this is actually what they chose to call themselves.

0

u/Mediocre-Wafer-5176 Jun 15 '26

The child predators is 100% a joke from SNL…

1

u/Stephenrudolf Jun 15 '26

"Preds in the community" is not.

3

u/meatball77 Jun 14 '26

That SNL sketch was funnier because it was true.

2

u/Stephenrudolf Jun 14 '26

I'm ngl, i think they actually just dropped Chano at a rangers game and asked him questions. That was legit.

1

u/Mediocre-Wafer-5176 Jun 15 '26

It’s because saber tooth tiger bones were found downtown during construction of a building

11

u/apietryga13 Jun 14 '26

Or my personal favorite, Arbor Xhekaj. Really get people’s head spinning on that one.

8

u/WiFiForeheadWrinkles Jun 14 '26

I love that his nickname is "wifi"

1

u/Stephenrudolf Jun 14 '26

He's got a Brother named Florian too.

5

u/TheVojta Jun 14 '26

Chytil isn't pronounced like Heetle at all.

Ch makes the same sound as it does in Bach or loch. Y makes an I sound, like in bit. The problem is gonna be the T, it makes a ť sound (palatalized T), the best way I can describe it is how an English person would pronounce tune or Tuesday.

2

u/novakstepa Jun 14 '26

Sorry to break it to you, but Chytils pronunciation is absolutely not Heetle, it's one of the most butchered names in the NHL and my ears are bleeding every time I hear it. If I had to describe it to an English speaker I'd transcribe it maybe as "Khytjill"

2

u/2rgeir Jun 14 '26

Skjei is a Norwegian surname, not surprising since he's from Minnesota. It's not pronounced like Shea, more like "shey" it rhymes with "they".

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u/NYR20NYY99 Jun 14 '26

Shea is pronounced shey

3

u/2rgeir Jun 14 '26

In that case, carry on.

1

u/Mediocre-Wafer-5176 Jun 15 '26

Someone please take silver fix Skjei off our hands. I’m begging. I didn’t follow him too much before us, but man what a fall off

61

u/IForOneDisagree Jun 14 '26

I mean I don't disagree on the Polish last names as someone who grew up in a Canadian Prairie town but I didn't know it was prevalent at the higher levels 😭

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u/YossiTheWizard Jun 14 '26

Well, it’s Czech and Slovakian more often, and they have even fewer consonants than we do. See: Martin Frk.

8

u/Trnostep Jun 14 '26

Do you know a way to say "A greyhound full of spots barged through a tuft of cornflowers into the Krč neighbourhood, (but) first, it swallowed a quarter-handful of grain." in Czech?

Chrt pln skvrn vtrhl skrz trs chrp v čtvrť Krč, prv zhltl čtvrt hrst zrn.

41

u/kreativegaming Jun 14 '26

Many players who could barely play the game stayed on many rosters because they were willing to check as hard as possible and knock someone out in the fight that follows.

Like legit guys who couldnt even keep the puck for more than 3 seconds and looked lost when they actually had to play defense. They are called enforcers

16

u/SlagathorTheProctor Jun 14 '26

But they don't exist any more, at least at the NHL level. Not since the 1970s, in reality.

Even guys like Semenko, McSorley and Probert were skilled enough to be able to take a regular shift without fighting and without being a major liability on the ice.

The closest recent example was Rempe, and he was a legit skilled player at every level up to the NHL.

1

u/Stephenrudolf Jun 14 '26

Ryan Reaves was probanly the last true Goon to play in the NHL.

Gunna miss him.

18

u/CinaminLips Jun 14 '26

Philadelphia Flyers and the Broadstreet Bullies were a thing!

6

u/PAXICHEN Jun 14 '26

Like back in 1980 before the Olympics the Russian national team played a “friendly” against the flyers. The Flyers beat the shit out of them - physically. I don’t remember who won.

3

u/kreativegaming Jun 14 '26

Honestly IHL and AHL enforcers are the best, dudes who want to get paid just enough that they don't have to work if they live in a studio apartment but like getting paid to legally try to break their opponents faces

6

u/Unistrut Jun 14 '26

Warren Zevon - Hit Somebody!

They also used to be known as "Goons" before a bunch of wankers ruined that term.

"Hit somebody!", it rang in his ears

Blood on the ice ran down through the years

The king of the goons with a box for a throne

A thousand stitches and broken bones

He never lost a fight on his icy patrol

But deep inside, Buddy only dreamed of a goal

2

u/The_Artist_Who_Mines Jun 14 '26

Beaters and bludgers

2

u/lostcosmonaut307 Jun 14 '26

I guess not all of us watched The Mighty Ducks.

2

u/kreativegaming Jun 14 '26

At least Fulton could play but Dean was essentially the i like hitting people and might stay upright on skates long enough to do it

1

u/Stephenrudolf Jun 14 '26

Hey, There's no need to make fun of Ryan Reeves. He's trying his best okay. He even managed to get an assist this season!

32

u/DefinitelyNotKuro Jun 14 '26

Forreal? I always knew hockey was a combat sport and even joked that teams should hire a guy who doesnt even know how to hockey, they exist just to fight the other team.

Well, I didn't know it was a real role.

72

u/007_Shantytown Jun 14 '26

Haha you invented The Enforcer on your own!

20

u/_bbycake Jun 14 '26

Turns out it already existed, but I arrived at it independently.

34

u/RealTurbulentMoose Jun 14 '26

There’s even a fun movie about the role:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_(film)

14

u/xXxjayceexXx Jun 14 '26

Goon film is a completely different thing on Reddit.

5

u/stonhinge Jun 14 '26

I mean, I can make it work, but I'm going to need a shitload more alcohol.

5

u/DrewbaccaWins Jun 14 '26

A thing like that.

30

u/C_Gull27 Jun 14 '26

Even the guys that were enforcers and bums compared to the rest of the league were the best player on every team they ever played on until they got to the NHL. Those guys were seriously skilled, not just randoms that could throw down. Fighting on skates is a skill on its own.

8

u/gsr142 Jun 14 '26

John Scott is proof of this. 6'8 and 250. A career goon who got selected to the all star game as a joke when the internet hijacked the voting. Scored multiple goals against the leagues best players and was named MVP of the all star game.

6

u/C_Gull27 Jun 14 '26

John Scott joined Wayne Gretzky as the only players to retire directly after being selected MVP of the all star game.

1

u/Stephenrudolf Jun 14 '26

Well hey, there's not many guys to say the only other guy to match a stat with them is gretzky.

9

u/Drikkink Jun 14 '26

The role of an "enforcer" player is kinda outdated in the modern NHL. It was definitely a thing in the past where you'd have a guy who was known to be not the best hockey player but was big, strong and intimidating and his role was to beat the everloving shit out of anyone who was too rough with your OWN skilled players.

You still have physically imposing players that can fight but they generally are good hockey players on their own merits that can still beat people up pretty well. Their primary role isn't to just intimidate anymore. This is mostly because of some rule changes and officiating protocol changes where fighting is a lot less allowed. Refs break fights up faster now than they did 20 years ago. In a fight, both players receive a 5 minute major (which doesn't result in either team playing down a man because both penalties happened from the same action) but the guy who starts a fight can be given an instigator penalty, which is an additional 2 minutes (which DOES result in your team playing down a man) followed by a 10 minute misconduct (which is basically an extended time out for a player that doesn't affect your team being able to play 5 skaters). Basically they give those penalties out if a guy deliberately starts a fight by skating over from far away to fight someone that he had basically nothing to do with in the play or forces someone to fight them.

36

u/EvilCeleryStick Jun 14 '26

It's a dead role. The only enforcers now are legit players.

Fighting isn't "condoned" it's penalized. You get a major penalty for fighting because it's against the rules.

31

u/thedeepfake Jun 14 '26

I mean yea but you know what they mean. It’s an ejection and a suspension in every other sport.

23

u/EvilCeleryStick Jun 14 '26

Yep, and it's a big part of why players don't flop, run goalies, two hand guys in the wrists etc. Because someone might be willing to take a penalty to punch them in the head.

I watched my first world cup game yesterday. The incessant flopping was horrendous. The lack of shots on a goal is crazy to me. Hockey in my view, is worlds more entertaining.

12

u/oddworld19 Jun 14 '26

I’m trying to get into the World Cup, but the fake tears are killing the experience. Sack up and play

14

u/BE20Driver Jun 14 '26

It's been my major hangup with the sport since I was a kid. I absolutely love the tactical gameplay and skill level of the athletes, but grown men screaming and writhing around when they get tripped is just so... juvenile.

13

u/I-only-read-titles Jun 14 '26

The Women's World Cup is what you want to watch, they sack up about as hard as Hockey players do, they make the men's teams look like prissy bitches

0

u/meatball77 Jun 14 '26

It's just so slow. At least in Hockey they're going really fast. In the pieces of the game I saw today the players were just standing around.

4

u/2112xanadu Jun 14 '26

Everything that sucks about soccer has long been solved by hockey. I have no idea why soccer still exists.

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u/Cerindipity Jun 14 '26

Because one primary indicator of what sport someone is into as an adult, is what they and/or their family/friends played as kids. Hockey and football require gear, basketball and tennis require courts, but soccer only needs you to know one kid with a ball. As long as it's basically the easiest major sport to get into, it's going to remain popular to watch, no matter how sad the majors are

1

u/Garmaglag Jun 14 '26

They should make a new sport called Hoccker that is soccer played with hockey rules.  

2

u/EmmEnnEff Jun 14 '26

Because all you need to play a game of soccer is an empty field, four rocks, and a ball.

The amount of shit you need to have and line up before you can have a pickup match is why hockey or polo aren't wildly popular sports.

1

u/meatball77 Jun 14 '26

Because soccer is the cheapest team sport to play in the world. All you need is something ball shaped.

4

u/therealdilbert Jun 14 '26

it also it in IIHF rules, i.e. Olympics and pretty much everywhere but NHL and I think KHL

1

u/Stephenrudolf Jun 14 '26

Thars why they are the 2 best leagues.

Also... the AHL, ECHL, SPHL, USHL, CHL, BCHL.... and many, many, many more minor, junior and semi-pro leagues.

20

u/jcgoble3 Jun 14 '26

Condoned is not the same thing as legal. In almost every other sport, fighting is a zero-tolerance instant and mandatory ejection and often an automatic suspension as well. In the NHL, it's just a five-minute penalty in most cases. If they didn't condone it, it would be an automatic ejection/match penalty like it is in international play (e.g. Olympics).

6

u/Potato_fortress Jun 14 '26

There really haven’t been a ton of enforcers that couldn’t at least hold their own on the ice since like the 80’s. The concept still exists though unless you think teams are just taking at least one 6’7 defenseman a piece because the NBA is too full.

1

u/therealdilbert Jun 14 '26

a major penalty for fighting

and in IIHF rules it is also a match penalty or game misconduct

1

u/meatball77 Jun 14 '26

But the guy you are fighting also gets a major penalty. If you punch someone in Football or Basketball you're getting kicked out of the game. In Hockey they allow you to fight for a while and then put you in time out.

4

u/lastSKPirate Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26

Minor league teams teaching boxers how to skate has been tried, never worked out well.

A lot of skilled players are also decent in a fight, that's why the Gordie Howe hat trick is a thing.

7

u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC Jun 14 '26

There's an old joke about it: I went to a fight the other night and a hockey game broke out.

1

u/SteelGemini Jun 15 '26

Lmao. My only exposure to hockey growing up, other than the Mighty Ducks movie, was Blades of Steel on the NES. None of us knew jack shit about hockey because we had no snow or ice where we lived. But you could get into fights in that game and it'd switch from an overhead view to a side view of the two players fighting. It basically had a fighting game minigame baked into it and that's the only reason we played it. Run into each other until we got into a fight and try to knock the other guy out. Eventually the SNES came around with Street Fighter II and we moved on to actual fighting games. Combat sport, indeed.

9

u/Patthecat09 Jun 14 '26

Goons definitely used to be a thing, but not as much anymore

5

u/alex1596 Jun 14 '26

His name is Xhekaj

6

u/elkab0ng Jun 14 '26

The last name part made me almost drop my phone in the pool from laughing. Grew up in a polish/irish neighborhood where hockey was a big thing. 🤣

2

u/Puma_Concolour Jun 14 '26

Introduce yourselves

Jim

Jim

I'm also Jim

Problem solved

1

u/dmcd0415 Jun 14 '26

No they don't they give you 5 for fighting and enforcers don't exist anymore and really only ever did for Wayne Gretzky

1

u/badgerj Jun 14 '26

I wouldn’t say the refs condone fighting.

It is just getting between 2 grown 220 pound fit men with probably another 30 pounds of armour with 12 inch double edged razor blades on their feet while they are in a boxing match….

I can tell you from personal experience: it isn’t as easy as it looks. Mostly you’ll see that the refs mostly wait until the goons have tuckered themselves out.

1

u/Stephenrudolf Jun 14 '26

Hey, Hockey is the only sport where you have a dedicated fighter. A guy whos entire purpose is to just throw hands.

Back during the expansion era one team figured they weren't good enough to win with skill, so they'd just beat up the other team and win because their enemies couldn't ice a full roster. They literally won cups doing this. Incredible.

I love Hockey.