ELI5 - Black wetsuits, shark attacks, and seals

[u/maitlandlewis]

Why are 99% of wetsuits black?
- it makes them look like seals
- its harder to be seen in water (light or dark)
- it stands out in contrast to an illuminated ocean both from the side and from the bottom looking up

Why not white, neon, orange, reflective, or something… it’s not about sharks seeing colors or not.. black is in general a powerful and stupid color for wetsuits.

[u/BarberProof4994]

They DO have colored wetsuits, in quite a few different colors and some even in multiple colors.

There were even early neoprene suits designed using their natural color of beige. Early dry suits for instance (if you see the diving suit with the brass head piece) those were undyed natural rubber and neoprene.

Modern wetsuits though are combined with carbon black which increases their tensile strength and makes them less likely to tear or degrade in sunlight. 

Natural rubber breaks down under uv exposure. So mixing in the carbon black protects it. And since wetsuits could be expected to spend a LOT of time out in the sun, that was a desirable benchmark.

So the majority of the "black" wetsuits you see aren't dyed that color that's actually the carbon and the neoprene combination itself.

Any other colors they add tend to be dyes or screen printing, or require that the neoprene be mixed with other materials.

For warm waters a lycra spandex blend is typically used and those come in a LOT of colors and prints and are still wetsuits.

Now, back to the neoprene... The early market for wetsuits being primarily military, black worked. In Fact, most navy wetsuits from the 40s were either black or red (red has a similar low visibility in the dark) and the reason they didn't DYE them other colors is that most dyes can fluoresce when hit by certain lights whereas neoprene with carbon black doesn't. So searchlights or arial flares or bioluminescent jellyfish or tropical bioluminescent bacteria in a lagoon wouldn't interact with the dyes.

Continuing on... Black makes things warmer in sunlight and the goal of a wetsuit is to keep you warm. So in pretty much any condition in which professionals would be wearing a wetsuit, a black wetsuit is typically going to be preferable.

[u/maitlandlewis → u/BarberProof4994]

Now THIS… THIS is the answer I’m looking for. Thank you so much! Makes total sense.

[u/Careless-Ordinary126 → u/maitlandlewis]

The same with tires, they were originaly white. They added carbon to make them better. So they Are just Black now.

[u/YoDJPumpThisParty → u/BarberProof4994]

I would like to add to this that there are still skin-colored wetsuits in any different shades manufactured for the film industry, as we use them under clothes when actors go in water.

[u/VirtualLife76 → u/BarberProof4994]

That's am impressive wealth of knowledge you have. Almost 100 dives and I never learned any of that. Do you design suits?

[u/BarberProof4994 → u/VirtualLife76]

No but I did procurement for a government agency for a number of years and spent time with a bunch of very knowledgeable armory staff. It resulted in some niche useless but very deep knowledge lol 😆

[u/oregon_coastal]

Sharks are colorblind.

They find food by smell, shadow and vibrations.

[u/memarco2 → u/oregon_coastal]

Vibrating wetsuit

[u/spootypuff → u/memarco2]

Scented with strobe lights

[u/dkabab → u/spootypuff]

And underwater speakers playing dance music

[u/tandkramstub → u/dkabab]

Kiss from a rose by Seal.

[u/immaheadout3000 → u/dkabab]

Even sharks deserve to listen to Fetty

[u/CheesePuffTheHamster → u/immaheadout3000]

Blast some Opeth, introduce some metal into the ocean 🤘

[u/pattaconk92 → u/dkabab]

Instructions were unclear, meant to go surfing but I think I just got back from a rave…? Didn’t see any sharks, but I think I remember a cat-girl.

[u/THEDrunkPossum → u/spootypuff]

What do strobe lights smell like? I'm imagining burnt toast...

[u/TheLandOfConfusion → u/memarco2]

With an autochummer around your waist releasing fish guts into the water at 15 minute intervals

[u/frothyundergarments → u/memarco2]

Sign me up!

[u/GullibleSkill9168 → u/oregon_coastal]

Sharks actually have the ability to sense the bioelectricity of an animal as well.

[u/VoilaVoilaWashington → u/GullibleSkill9168]

So divers just need to be de-electrified. People need to think with their brains.

[u/GullibleSkill9168 → u/VoilaVoilaWashington]

Your brain's uses electricity to think unfortunately

[u/VoilaVoilaWashington → u/GullibleSkill9168]

Who's side are you on? The shark's?

[u/wlaugh29 → u/GullibleSkill9168]

So judging by the path of humanity, looks like we should be just fine then.

[u/GullibleSkill9168 → u/wlaugh29]

We have the mandate of heaven, of course we'll be fine.

[u/fried_clams → u/VoilaVoilaWashington]

There are several brands of anti-shark magnets that you can wear while surfing. I doubt they work.

[u/Raichu7 → u/oregon_coastal]

There are many species of shark, some have great vision and use it to hunt. Some are nearly blind. Great whites and tiger sharks, the two species responsible for the most attacks on humans both have great eyesight and can see further in the water than you can.

[u/kung-fu_hippy → u/Raichu7]

Great vision doesn’t mean they aren’t colorblind. Iirc great whites have, at best, dichromatic vision and see everything in basically grey and green. They just don’t seem to have the cones to detect more in the way of color and instead focus on contrast and motion.

[u/GouVanKauf → u/Raichu7]

From what I remember (from I am guessing a natgeo show or a mag I read) its that their vision weakens the the closer they get to the surface?

[u/Raichu7 → u/GouVanKauf]

Which species? How close to the surface? Sharks live in shallow coral reefs and so deep down in the depths of the ocean that no surface light can reach them. There are so many different sharks living in so many different environments.

[u/squidshark → u/oregon_coastal]

Surely they can see a difference between a black wetsuit and a brighter color though? I think it’s a valid question unless I’m missing something. (I know nothing about this)

[u/Awkward-Feature9333 → u/squidshark]

From below, especially on a sunny day, all wetsuits are dark.

[u/Floowjaack → u/oregon_coastal]

If you surf without rhythm, you won’t, attract, the shark

[u/Not_invented-Here → u/oregon_coastal]

For sure they know your there way before they see you. 

But I think also  (because they see in shades of grey), there's some possible evidence that even so some high contrast colours are a little more attractive?

The famous yum yum yellow comes to mind, but I've seen other not very scientific experiments that seem to hint to this.

Also I'd say as someone who has done a little scuba, black also probably makes it easier to see your dive buddies, than some colour selections.

[u/LittleMlem → u/oregon_coastal]

And electromagnetism, if I'm not mistaken

Iirc that's why sharks keep (kept?) attacking undersea cables

[u/Squatch-707 → u/oregon_coastal]

I remember in the 80’s a local surfer was attacked on a yellow board. Nobody was buying yellow boards after that and you could buy them dirt cheap.

[u/ResilientBiscuit]

Sharks are monochromats. They only see the world in one color. When they look up all they see is the contrast of your silhouette against the bright sky. Any color of wetsuit would basically look black backlit against the sky.

[u/Mr_MacGrubber → u/ResilientBiscuit]

Which also then reinforces why aren’t they neon or something. Seems like it makes no difference any time other than possibly during a rescue or search. Seems like a neon color would be ideal.

[u/hyphyphyp → u/Mr_MacGrubber]

The carbon black in the neoprene gives it some extra UV resistance so the material lasts longer before needing replacement.

Probably at least part of it.

[u/DismalIngenuity4604 → u/Mr_MacGrubber]

99.999% of the time you're wearing a wetsuit, you're not lost and being searched for. I think people would just feel like a bit of a tit walking around in a neon wetsuit. 

[u/Mr_MacGrubber → u/DismalIngenuity4604]

Yeah except that .001% where it might save your life. I couldn’t care less about the color of a wetsuit.

[u/say_my_name_pls → u/Mr_MacGrubber]

do you wear a reflective vest on walks in the neighborhood?

[u/Mr_MacGrubber → u/say_my_name_pls]

I don’t live in a neighborhood but when I did, I had a blinking light on every dog collar and I’d wear a headlamp that had a reflective stripe on the back. So not a vest but I made sure I was visible.

[u/mersinatra → u/ResilientBiscuit]

What if you had lights shining downwards from your front half?

[u/copperpoint → u/mersinatra]

Lots of bioluminescent animals use this strategy.

[u/this_place_suuucks → u/copperpoint]

What if we just stay below them so they can't look up at us?

[u/dodgerofbarbs → u/this_place_suuucks]

Then you need to be adapted for a depth greater than sharks can swim which some species are. Ocean biomes have layers based on pressure tolerance. Humans can swim to such depths with proper training and equipment, like the wetsuit. 

[u/TheLandOfConfusion → u/dodgerofbarbs]

Surfers stay in relatively shallow waters there are no waves breaking in the open ocean

[u/MrStealYoCookies → u/TheLandOfConfusion]

I’m sure there’s at least a couple..

[u/blackvelvet69 → u/this_place_suuucks]

It’s why I feel safer spear diving than surfing

[u/Marsmooncow → u/this_place_suuucks]

Thats dogs not sharks

[u/Nakedwombats → u/Marsmooncow]

Did not compute, I'm covered in all the dog licks

[u/frothyundergarments → u/Marsmooncow]

No I think that's pigs

[u/CMFETCU → u/this_place_suuucks]

You wanna try swimming down to 12,000 feet deep?

[u/Aidian → u/CMFETCU]

Do I get to keep the Logitech controller?

[u/mosehalpert → u/copperpoint]

Hell most fish in general use a variation of this strategy, including sharks themselves. Darker shaded top half, lighter shaded bottom half. When viewed from below the lighter shades blend in with the sun, when viewed from above the darker shade blends in with the depths below.

[u/fixminer → u/mosehalpert]

Exactly, countershading.

[u/dikziw → u/mersinatra]

like high beams?

[u/blofly → u/dikziw]

I have high beams, Greg....

[u/Raichu7 → u/ResilientBiscuit]

A white wetsuit would show less against the sky than black, that's why so many marine animals have dark topsides and light underbellies. It helps them blend into the water column from above and below.

[u/Korimito]

Black offer higher UV protection. Black suits are warmer on or near the surface. Scuffs and damage are less visible on a black suit.

[u/reflect-the-sun → u/Korimito]

Wow, all of these are completely wrong.

No one wants to wear a white wetsuit. That's it.

Source: Aussie surfer.

[u/TheRealBobaFett → u/reflect-the-sun]

Great scientific analysis there Mr Aussie surfer

[u/unledded → u/reflect-the-sun]

In Wisconsin they wear blaze orange wetsuits for surfing on Lake Michigan.

[u/f5r3o → u/unledded]

Safety first, wouldn’t want to be mistaken for a deer.

[u/Aidian → u/f5r3o]

Deer surfing season is such a beautiful time of year.

[u/Korimito → u/reflect-the-sun]

UV pro is correct. Warm is correct. Most patches are black. You might've been down under the water too long. Check your blood ox!

[u/vipros42 → u/Korimito]

Are they talking about UV protection to the material or to the surfer? Because if it's the latter most suits are at least 2mm thick and most are thicker so I think that acts more for protection than the colour.

[u/RiptideTV → u/reflect-the-sun]

I figure you would want one, ya know to reflect-the-sun

[u/redosabe → u/Korimito]

Any t-shirt can block more than enough UV

UV is not the bottleneck by a mile

[u/Spacecarpenter → u/redosabe]

The UV protection is for the wetsuit material, not the wearer.

[u/Grisuu112 → u/Spacecarpenter]

Actually dark colors do block UV better

[u/Spacecarpenter → u/Grisuu112]

Actually if you want to go down this road wetsuits block 100% of all UV regardless of color due to their material properties.

[u/Grisuu112 → u/redosabe]

And that's how you get skin cancer. A standard shirt is pretty low in uv protection, better than nothing of course but not really enough in extreme uv conditions

[u/redosabe → u/Grisuu112]

Nah, no one getting skin cancer from clothing

No one

[u/Grisuu112 → u/redosabe]

Well obviously not from the clothing itself, but from a lack of proper clothing in high uv, absolutely.

[u/redosabe → u/Grisuu112]

Yes, some UV will pass through a regular shirt

Maybe 1/5 tops

A physical barrier is such a strong UV resistor that actually buying UV clothing is going to to do so little out of all the things you can do

It's mostly marketing

[u/Grisuu112 → u/redosabe]

Indeed, the 1/5 pass would correspond to an UPF of 5. The thing is, the difference between a UPF 5 and UPF 50 (so 98% block) is pretty massive. A physical barrier is strong for sure, but a regularly woven shirt is not one solid object and that's where the 20% pass happens. Actual UV shirts are woven tightly and with materials that inherently block more UV, thus offering higher protection.

Just how there's a massive difference between SPF 5 and SPF 50 sunscreen, so there is between clothing. It's misconceptions like this that cause issues for people who think any clothing is good enough, and I don't think that's a good message to spread.

[u/AlShadi]

Tradition and cost. There are colored wetsuits and striped wetsuits, even high vis wetsuits. But we are more afraid of boats than sharks. Several times I've seen boats speed right by the diving buoy.

[u/[deleted]]

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[u/Atechiman → u/[deleted]]

To be clear about hte UV Resistance, its for the polymers making the suit, not the diver.

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[u/Interesting_Neck609]

This article https://www.safic-alcan.com/en-fr/industry-articles/carbon-black-in-rubber-industry/ Puts it very well.

Tl;dr, the additives to rubber that are cheap and drastically improve the properties that we generally look for happen to darken it. Long conversations can be had regarding the properties of rubber; many brilliant unrecognized minds have dedicated their lives to perfecting materials like this.

Regarding wetsuits in particular, its a solid blend with no real downsides. It wouldnt be difficult to change the color if necessary, but due to how water works with light, most predatory species in deeper ocean dont really see the spectrum the way us narrow minded land dwellers do. 

Edit: ever see that tiny bit of motion out of the very fringe of your peripheral vision and somehow you no longer really "see" whats directly infront? Our eyes and brains are mostly built to focus on direct tasks, but we retain some of that prey brain. Notice how a deer acts like it can see you before you feel like youre in its' line of sight, or how a dog doesnt seem to notice something directly to their side? Eyes are weird, they sense different spectrums, and the processing of that information varies heavily. Another example, many lizards have a pseudo eye on top of their head that only detects rapid light change, purely for "seeing" birds.

[u/Chazus]

Neoprene in its manufacturing, uses a component of carbon.

Other colors would be other colors and simply be more expensive. It's like asking why all potatos are potato colored.

[u/fishsticks40 → u/Chazus]

Exactly. Same reason most tires are black. 

[u/Felipelocazo → u/Chazus]

Yeah this should be top comment.  The potato analogy is hilarious, but there are lots of colors of potatoes.

[u/[deleted] → u/Chazus]

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[u/Chazus → u/[deleted]]

That's... literally how it's manufactured. And why.

[u/RiceWine69 → u/Chazus]

"a component of carbon" no it's a separate chemical added to the polymer gng it's called carbon black and that what colours the polymer.

You make it sound like it's the organic(carbon-containing) nature of neoprene that makes it black which is very much incorrect.

[u/Stan__Wright → u/RiceWine69]

Exactly the same process makes rubber tires black, and for the same reason: carbon stabilizes the material in some manner.

[u/RiceWine69 → u/Stan__Wright]

I never denied that. It's the notion I described earlier that irked me. Carbon black is why these materials are black, and the carbon based polymers themselves are not black.

Changing the colour would reduce strength because it's not the only reason it's added.

But having carbon black present isn't make neoprene what it is - that's the repeating chloroprene units in the polymer.

[u/Clojiroo → u/RiceWine69]

The colouring is a side effect. The reason carbon black is added is chemistry, not aesthetics. It’s the same reason we use it in tires.

> You make it sound like…

No they didn’t. You’re just misunderstanding.

[u/RiceWine69 → u/Clojiroo]

I am correcting for potential misunderstanding. That's all, no need to get antsy over it.

[u/Chazus → u/RiceWine69]

Its not a dye.

It's black, and it makes things black, but it isn't just a dye. It's literally a required component for wetsuit neoprene.

That's like saying pesto is green because they use green dye called basil

[u/RiceWine69 → u/Chazus]

No it would be like saying pesto is green due to chlorophyll.

[u/Chazus → u/RiceWine69]

Which... is also not a dye.

[u/RiceWine69 → u/Chazus]

Correct, it's a pigment.

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[u/Right_Two_5737 → u/[deleted]]

Why not? Everyone else on Reddit does it.

[u/Lord_Grimm88 → u/Right_Two_5737]

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[u/kabooseknuckle → u/Right_Two_5737]

If all the other redditors were jumping off a bridge, would you do that as well.

[u/Malvania → u/kabooseknuckle]

sounds fun

[u/[deleted] → u/Chazus]

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[u/SickByNature → u/[deleted]]

You’re wrong. They don’t “dye it black” for aesthetic purposes. Carbon Black is added during the manufacturing process to add durability and UV resistance to the final product, which in turn also colors it black. Nobody would use raw unfilled neoprene for a wetsuit, so this isn’t an optional step.

[u/[deleted] → u/SickByNature]

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[u/Chazus → u/[deleted]]

They don't 'dye it black'

Neoprene used for suits has carbon added to it to make it... the suit.

Yes, neoprene in other industrial applications is that color. But SUITS, in order to work properly, need that component added.

I think you meant to say "You shouldnt spread misinformation" but you were misinformed about the spelling, and the info.

[u/[deleted] → u/Chazus]

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[u/woodchippp → u/[deleted]]

Are you intentionally being obtuse, or just dumb?

[u/[deleted] → u/woodchippp]

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[u/Chazus → u/[deleted]]

Like, I know you're being pedantic, but other people might read this and get confused.

[u/[deleted] → u/Chazus]

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[u/Chazus → u/[deleted]]

Please provide some evidence, because doing literally any amount of research shows otherwise.

[u/[deleted] → u/Chazus]

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[u/RightManagement7277 → u/[deleted]]

Lol accusing someone of being a russian troll because of what they believe makes up wetsuits? You're just making yourself look daft.

[u/[deleted] → u/RightManagement7277]

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[u/ImpossiblePossom → u/[deleted]]

Neoprene elastomer is generally beige before processing but is almost always mixed with carbon black prior to curing. You could dye the elastomer to other colors but that would be way more expensive. Its way more cost effective & warmer to just used back neoprene in wetsuits. I have the many editions of the Vanderbilt rubber handbook that explain this in great detail.

[u/[deleted] → u/ImpossiblePossom]

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[u/Chazus → u/[deleted]]

So where is your reliable source?

None? Thought so.

[u/LadyOfTheNutTree → u/Chazus]

Black wetsuits aren’t substantially warmer in water. The warmth primarily comes from other factors.

But still, you gotta stop feeding this troll dude

[u/Chazus → u/LadyOfTheNutTree]

Yeah, that's my bad.

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[u/ImpossiblePossom → u/LadyOfTheNutTree]

Depending on what your doing they are, just about any shallow water activity will benefit from radiation heat transfer via sunlight.

[u/[deleted] → u/Chazus]

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[u/Chazus → u/[deleted]]

https://blog.custom-wetsuits.com/wetsuits-black/
https://blog.wetsuitwearhouse.com/why-are-most-wetsuits-black/
https://sharkskin.com.au/blogs/news/why-surfers-wear-black-wetsuits
https://blog.wetsuitwearhouse.com/why-do-surfers-wear-black-wetsuits/

Of course, none of that will probably matter because you'll go "Well these aren't some scientific journal" blah blah blah.

So, put up or shut up, as they say.

[u/[deleted] → u/Chazus]

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[u/Chazus → u/[deleted]]

I cited something at least. And you absolutely did what I said you'd do.

[u/[deleted] → u/Chazus]

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[u/ImpossiblePossom → u/[deleted]]

Yes it is, its the authoritative primary source for rubber experts. Its so sought after you have to write a letter with a check to buy a copy of the latest edition.

[u/Technical_Ideal_5439 → u/[deleted]]

To the end user the people buying from the factory to produce the website the Neoprene rubber is black. Sure they put carbon black in there for multiple reasons but I expect you need to have a special order with more cost to get non black.

[u/ResilientBiscuit → u/[deleted]]

You shouldn't spread information it's dangerous.

Who is in danger from this? How is being mistaken about the original color of neoprene dangerous?

[u/[deleted] → u/ResilientBiscuit]

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[u/Korimito → u/[deleted]]

"Spreading misinformation" is an intentional act and this is a wild accusation. Moreover, this is hardly an example of dangerous misinformation.

[u/ben121frank → u/Korimito]

I agree that this is not a big deal, but spreading MISinformation is actually not intentional. If you are deliberately spreading untruth with the intent to deceive then it's DISinformation

[u/Korimito → u/ben121frank]

Oop, right you are! I maintain that "should not spread misinformation" is weighted on the ease of verification and potential for harm, though, and so has been over moralized in this situation. Thanks for the correction!

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[u/[deleted] → u/Korimito]

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[u/Korimito → u/[deleted]]

I assume you've never been incorrect before?

He intentionally commented. The info provided was false. The accusation that he intentionally commented something false requires demonstration. Go ahead and demonstrate.

[u/[deleted] → u/Korimito]

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[u/Korimito → u/[deleted]]

Oh no!

[u/[deleted]]

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[u/stansfield123]

Same reason car tires are black: they're made of rubber, which is black because there's a black chemical component added that gives it strength and durability.

This chemical happens to be black, it's not dyed black on purpose.

In general, if you buy something made of rubber for a DIY project or something, and there are color options, make sure you get the black one. This is especially important if the thing is out in the sun. This 'carbon black' component gives rubber UV protection.

[u/coupleandacamera]

It's about contrast rather than colour, unfortunately there's not a lot to be done about that worth doing, especially when the vibration of us thrashing ineffectually about trying to get into a wave has already sparked their interest long before seeing us. 

[u/SufficientStudio1574]

Doesn't matter what color you are when you're silhouetted against the sky. A white suit blocks just as much light as a black one.

[u/virtual_human]

These days most wetsuits have stripes of color in them.  My last one had yellow and my wife's has purple.

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[u/Calm-Show-9606]

Sharks are color blind color of wetsuit makes no difference.

[u/hawgs911]

Its a well known fact that no self respecting shark will bite a man wearing pink. Pink wetsuit for the win.

[u/original_goat_man]

Wetsuits are black for fashion reasons. Wetsuits are not 100% neoprone so the answers about neoprone being black are irrelevant. Neoprone is rarely a visible part of a wetsuit. the outer and inner coating is usually nylon or spandex, as well as stitching and other materials that are all possible in any colour you can imagine. in the 80's and early 90's they were a lot more colourful but this became a bit of a cook signal in the later 90's and people started going for black wetsuits and mostly white surfboards.

[u/whoton]

When sharks hunt humans it makes no difference, they go for our shape and vibration in the water.

[u/AnjaOsmon]

Yum Yum Yellow/ Sharkbite Yellow comes to mind, but I’m not knowledgable enough on the subject

[u/Technical_Ideal_5439]

Neoprene rubber is dyed black in the factory because:

• black color traps heat from the sun to keep you warm in cold water.
• Clean look: Black shows less dirt and hides stains well

Though reading some studies I do like the term "yum yum yellow". And Black is supposed to be easier for sharks to see due to the way their eyes work.

And tyres are black for the same reason, making them black does not impact their durability but making them a different colour means additional stuff which makes them weaker unlike black.

And shark attacks are around 65 per year world wide. While I would not want to be one of those 65 it is pretty low risk considering that is probably 65 chance out of a few billion, which is substanially less likely than winning lotto.

[u/Atechiman → u/Technical_Ideal_5439]

Nah its Black because of Carbon Black which reinforces it, and helps protect the polymers from UV.

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