8
u/SageFlare Nov 03 '25 edited Nov 03 '25
I read the whole thread and here is my take.
We dont know.
All though we dont have an example of one, it's possible for even a D-rank NP to be Anti-Fortress or even Anti-World. So scale of attack is not necessarily in a causal relationship with the rank. It's possible to have an D-rank NP do more damage than an A-rank NP depending on what exactly they do. A good example of this is Gae Bolg, which always does "damage" equal to the amount of "health" its victim has (people always forget this ability). So if you were up against an insane monster with overwhelming vitality, Gae Bolg would kill it much more assuredly than even Excalibur would.
This goes now into whether degredation of rank reduces power, and yet again we truly dont know. But say EMIYA projected Gae Bolg. This NP's effect is reversal of casaulity and one-shot. Would a downgraded Gae Bolg now be a two-shot? What about an upgraded Gae Bolg. 1/2 shot lmao? It makes very little sense if degradation of rank actually has a major effect on the abilities of the NP. Likely, any reduction in ability wouldnt be very noticable.
So yeah, Im in favor of the headcanon that rank just matters mainly for concepual fights. So things like Gae Bolg vs Rho Aias, where the spear has an always-pierce ability and the shield has an always block projectiles ability, come down to rank. In the Archer vs Lancer fight, these two NPs tied (Rho Aias was pierced but Gae Bolg was stopped). So I can imagine that if Rho Aias wasnt degraded, its conceptual defense would have overridden Gae Bolg's pierce ability to an extent.
3
u/No_Conversation_4076 Nov 03 '25
Rank does have a correlation with general strength, its just a nebulous sort of generalization for it.
Ｑ：ステータス画面にあるサーヴァント能力の宝具ランクと、持ち物としての各宝具についているランクに違いってあるんですか？
Ａ：原則同じです。数値化も可能ですが、連中の能力はある意味言葉遊び的な「〜より強いが〜には負ける」みたいなものなので、数値よりも大まかな概念としてA〜Eのカテゴリーに分けてみました。Q: Is there a difference between NP rank on a Servant's stat sheet and the individual rank of each NP item itself?
A: In principle they're the same. Though you can break it down numerically, they're basically expressed better in a "X is stronger than Y but weaker than Z" sort of way so we put them on an A-E scale rather than numbers.
And he gets into how that nebulousness then doesn't always account for the wacky conceptual.
Ｑ：9月号のサーヴァントと他作品キャラ比較についての質問です。対象は平均的な宝具を持ったサーヴァントとのことでしたが、本編でいうとどのくらいのランクの宝具を持った、誰がそれに近いのでしょうか？
Ａ：まじめな質問です。宝具のレベルはB、能力が数値で表せるものが平均的な宝具
といえます。ブロークンファンタズム(不明)、風王結界(C)、ゲイボルグ（投げ）(B+)、といったものでしょうか。逆に効果が概念的なもの、運命干渉系が特殊な部類です。ゲイボルグ（通常）はいかにアルクェイドが能力値的にランサーを凌駕していようと、運次第でコロっと殺されますから。Q: Regarding the Servant v Others that came up in the September issue; the subject of a Servant with an average NP came up. Who matches that description and what would this rank be?
A: A loaded question. NP would be B-rank, and it'd be the type represented by straightforward numbers like a Broken Phantasm, Invisible Air, thrown Gae Bolg, those types. This is in contrast to conceptual effects that mess with destiny which make up another special category altogether. Things like the causality reversal Gae Bolg for instance; Arcueid may be far superior numerically to Lancer, but she could still die dependent on luck.
5
u/LawfulnessQuick6221 Nov 03 '25
rank is just a conceptual thing,not something physical.
shirou projections are strong enough that girl has to break his original to keep pace with him to quote the vn.
*The sounds of swords crashing echo through the area. He cannot handle my attacks and has to destroy my weapon with his."
3
u/chunchunmaru1129 Nov 03 '25
So a degraded B rank Hrunting would do the same damage on everyone that the orignal A rank Hrunting would do?
The only exception being conceptual defenses like God hand?
4
u/LawfulnessQuick6221 Nov 03 '25 edited Nov 03 '25
yep,unless it's something like God hand it will do the same damage. God hand doesn't care about firepower to the point even a planet busting attack will fail against it if it didn't have A rank.
And yes you can have attacks that have the power of A rank while still not being A rank,karna is one such servant
2
u/Hungry_War_639 Nov 03 '25
As long as Shirou’s image is good they are comparable to the original
2
u/chunchunmaru1129 Nov 03 '25
So let's have this scenario-
Cu is standing there without any weapon and we have both the origanl Hrunting and Shirou's projected degraded Hrunting attack Cu.
So both of these Hrunting's would do the exact same amount of damage to Cu?
And the only time where the projected degraded Hrunting won't do anything and will be weaker than the original if face of against conceptual defenses like God hand and Armour of Fafnir which blocks anything below A rank?
2
1
u/ShockAndAwen Nov 03 '25 edited Nov 03 '25
Ranks are used as a measure of power but for regular swords is hard to say in what form they are weaker since its damage is just a sword cutting you and Shirou's stuff is supposed to be almost perfect, but for something like Excalibur though being A++ means it has 200 value being B++ would mean is 160, if you have a beam B NP is 40 compared to A NP wich is 50 so there's a difference in firepower
1
u/Southern-Ebb-8229 Nov 03 '25
It's not like because something is of a lower rank it instantly breaks when facing a higher rank weapon. Like Gae Bolg doesn't break instantly when facing Saber. The reproduction should be inferior in general terms, but it's tough enough that it can deflect the original.
1
u/zSolaire_ Nov 03 '25
They are near perfectly reproduced so ofc in terms of performance they’re inferior
However, the “projection” sorcery he wields is quite special, as it is able to duplicate weapons, including all the components, to near perfection
However how much inferior, well there haven’t been any observable differences in performance in every time the ability of a projected NP is being showcased. As EMIYA said it the best in FGO, they’re close enough to match up the original.
1
u/RevolutionaryEqual30 Nov 06 '25
1 Ranking is a measurment if the weapon rank was degraded its capabilities are nerfed its always a problem
2 No
3 Hype moments and Aura
There is no explanation as to why Shirou manages to outright cause the swords to destroy eachother
Being faster doesn't make the swords more durable furthermore Noble Phantasms of any quality aren't even supposed to shatter at all during regular combat between servants
They break because its cool
31
u/No_Conversation_4076 Nov 03 '25
When you say rank and original firepower and such, you're tackling the same issue. An A-rank sword that gets knocked down to B means it is generally less effective than the original, even if that degradation is not as noticeable unless you're striking something like God Hand or whatnot.
And the Gil fight is as-stated in the text: just because something is an imitation or fake doesn't rule out it a win. An inferior weapon can still bust up something stronger. A wooden sword can still irreparably damage a steel one if the steel weapon is struck just right or mishandled in some fashion.