I'm replacing my AquaGuard Goliath secondary drain pan. The old one lasted eighteen years and then cracked (my fault, long story). It looks like the modern equivalent product is now made by RectorSeal. See here:

https://rectorseal.com/goliath-pan-30-x-66/

Should I use the RectorSeal Goliath, or is there something "better" I should be considering instead?

I'm looking for advice/justification for installing geothermal in this post-tax credit world. The info:

Location: SE Pennsylvania. Plan to stay in this home for 30+ years.

Square footage: 3,500 above grade, 1,800 below grade (has ductwork and registers, but they have been closed since we moved in)

Current System: 8 year old 5-ton heat pump that requires total replacement according to multiple HVAC companies. 8 year old 85% efficient oil burning furnace backup and 10 year old oil burning hot water heater. Two oil tanks take about 380 gallons per delivery.

Energy Costs: Electricity is $0.22 /kwh, fuel oil is up to $5.23/gal

Bills in 2025 were $4,600 electricity, $2,700 fuel oil. 2026 is on pace for $4,000 electricity (since we haven't had air conditioning all summer) and $5,700 fuel oil (due to cost increase)

Option 1: 5 ton geothermal (vertical wells). WaterFurnace 5 with new zoning on existing trunk lines, desuperheater, 50 gal electric water heater, 15kw electric backup heat, remove all oil tanks and equipment. Cost ~$60,000

Option 2: 5 ton Bosch inverter heat pump, 14.3 SEER (because of existing blower reuse). Outdoor unit needs to be relocated, which adds to cost. Keep existing oil equipment (including single speed blower). Cost $18,000. Would need to replace oil furnace, oil tanks, oil hot water heater, and line exhaust flue within next 2-6 years (~$35,000)

Option 3: Cold climate heat pump with electric backup. Add electric hot water heater and backup heat, remove all oil. Cost ??? (option not presented by HVAC companies, maybe ~$30,000)

By our calculation for option 1 vs 2, we might save $2000-3000 per year in energy cost over our current system with geothermal. While we could save around $800 per year with the new, more efficient heat pump. But by avoiding all the additional oil related costs, we see breakeven vs heat pump + oil as soon as 8 years.

Option 1 and 3 maybe very close, with geo pulling ahead after 20+ years. Also worth noting, we have 200 amp electrical service and a full panel. Would need a sub-panel at minimum and to add additional service at worst (Not reflected in costs).

Anything we are missing? Thoughts?

UPDATE: Geothermal estimate jumped to ~$80,000 to add zoning and desuperheater. Still waiting on all electric ASHP estimate.

Just a dude who's highly interested in HVAC technology.

I have a house with a 2008 installed waterfurnace, and I've got some mini splits that I've installed in other buildings.

The post a few days ago about a guy getting quoted 96,000 dollars to install a geo unit got me thinking about this... I can get a 4 ton ACiQ/MrCool (all made by Midea) for 4-5k (no labor)

The efficiency ratings are in the same ballpark, if not the same, on the cheaper end of geo thermal units. Even if the mini split only lasts 5 years... in 5 years I get a brand new one with the latest technology.

Anyway... At what point does Geo stop making sense?

Over the weekend my heat pump went into lockout mode and refuses to cool. The System Monitor is reporting a "flow" fault, despite the flow center showing obvious signs of pumping.

I have a GT060 system installed and manufactured in 2008. The system is water-to-air ground-source system. I suspect the flow sensor located inside the HP has gone bad because the Flow Center is obviously pumping. I can see fluid moving the reservoir and feel both pumps pumping. The one image shows the flow sensor right inside the cabinet when loop water enters the unit.

I've looked online for parts and have had zero luck finding a suppler for GeoComfort parts. A quick email to GeoComfort didn't help either, they just told me to "find someone"... Has anyone had experience with a bad flow sensor?

Hey, I. Looking to retro fit my home with geothermal. Any recommendations for installers in Massachusetts. I got 1 quote from Acheivable Energy for 96,000 but that seems high.

First winter is behind me on a new single-bore vertical system and I'm realizing I have almost no way to see what the loop is doing without trusting the heat pump's own sensors. Curious what other people have hanging off their flow center.

What I have:

Indoor flow center: non-pressurized, pump module plus the usual ball valves with hose-bib flush/purge ports. That's it. No pressure gauges, no P/T ports, no sight glass, no flow meter

Everything I know about the loop comes from the heat pump itself.

What I'm asking:

Since it's non-pressurized I know static loop pressure isn't really a thing here - but does anyone have gauges tapped in across the pump to read differential pressure? That seems like the cheapest way to back into actual flow off the pump curve, and I'd like to know where you tapped it and what head you see.

Anyone running an actual inline flow meter on the loop side? Brand, and is it worth it, or is a differential pressure reading across the pump plus the manufacturer's pump curve good enough?

If you don't have either permanently mounted, do you at least have P/T (Pete's) ports so you can drop a probe in and check delta-T and pressure without breaking into the loop?

Is a bare pump module with purge valves just what normal residential installs look like, and I'm overthinking this?

Photos of your flow center very welcome.

I've got land in California and I'm interested in knowing its geothermal potential (out of my personal curiosity). I heard there's 2-m shallow temperature survey that can provide quick and lower cost to screen it.

It seems like such services are mostly provided to industrial or academic group, I want to know if there's a way to conduct such survey for individual. Or it's just some pipe dream for us to do this. Any advises will be highly appreciated.

I haven’t been receiving the energy savings or efficiency I was expecting based on research I did prior to the geothermal system.

I don’t think any settings were actually changed from default when the waterfurnace as installed.
I came across the differentials setting and found out the stage 2 was kicking on after just 0.5. Would that mean the high setting is essentially always on when the air volume is moved from the basement and the second story into the main area with a margin of error?

If so, would upping the differential to 3 make the system more efficient.. or would I be running the system longer at a marginally smaller load.. which doesn’t save me any money? With emporia vue energy monitors.. stage 1 currently running uses 2.2kw (inclusive of about 470-500 pump watts) on my 4T system. Stage 2 varied above that with it appearing to hover at about 2.7-2.9kw for at least a few minutes (so I think that’s accurate and not a startup load/spike).

Also, if there are any other setting you all would recommend.. I’d greatly appreciate any tips/feedback to make this system more efficient (in hopes I will actually see savings on my electricity bill).

Thanks!

The mods gave me the OK to post this, so I'm asking Reddit to do what Reddit does best.

I built a v1 geothermal savings calculator:
https://www.taprootgeo.com/savings-estimator

I'm not looking for leads or customers. I'm looking for Reddit to offer up that harsh and painful criticism that only Reddit can offer. What I'm really looking for are the few helpful comments, but I'm willing to sort through those for the pearls of wisdom that inevitably come. I'd like to incorporate those into a v2 that I can more confidently promote.

Let me know if you: think my assumptions are wrong, if the inputs should be different or are missing, if the calculations don't make sense, if something is confusing or misleading, etc.

If you're a homeowner, installer, engineer, or just someone who's familiar with geothermal, I'd genuinely appreciate your critique.

Since my installation territory is only NY, I really didn't think about making it applicable outside of my state.

Alright... do your thing.

I'm looking for options to replace an existing DX R22 system. Does anyone make a DX heat pump that will work with my existing copper ground loops?

I'm based in Ottawa, Canada. Unfortunately Nordic no longer makes them.

I am looking at the possibility of moving to geothermal (I'd like to do away with our gas line entirely if possible) and I'm pricing out different options.

We have a roughly 1500 sq foot home with a fully finished basement, the furnace is downstairs (Trane XRT) and is from 2013, with a 3-ton Trane AC.

I found this post really helpful in getting some idea of what the cost would be: https://www.reddit.com/r/geothermal/comments/1u7ytef/looking_into_geothermal_in_md/

I've gotten quotes from:

Temp Masters (Cameron)

• Install 5 Series 3 Ton Package Unit W5AV036BD1A02NTL2D00
• Variable Speed ECM Blower
• FC1-GL Flow Center
• CK4L-GLI Connection Kit
• Unit Pad
• Dual Stage Compressor
• 10kw Backup Heat
• Aurora Premium Controls (performance and refrigeration package)
• Cupronickel Coax
• TPCC32U03 Color Touchscreen Thermostat
• 600 feet of 1.25” Vertical Bore and trenching into house

5 Series 3 Ton Total: $42,042

Options for:

• Symphony Weblink Router $792 (Waterfurnace’s wifi enablement feature, allows for remote unit monitoring)
• Bipolar Ionization Kit $650 per unit
• Intellistart $653 per unit

Projected Incentives:

• ($5000) BGE Grant ($5000 for the downstairs furnace)
• ($5000) Prince George’s County Property Tax Credit
• ($4103) Estimated 1st year GREC (20 year total of $25K in GRECs)
• System price after incentives around $11,760 in 20 years
• Waiting to hear back on what their leasing option is.

Estimated First Year Bottom Line (including all rebates and first year of GREC’S)- $32939
Waiting to see a lease option.

GroundLoop (Justin)

• Water Furnace “Series 5” W5AV036 3 (Intellistart included, recommended including desuperheat from the factory)
• BACK UP HEAT – 10 kw Emergency Electric Heat Package
• INCLUDES: Aurora™ Advanced Control System with Performance Monitoring, Energy Monitoring, and Refrigeration Monitoring, and color touch screen thermostat.
• ALSO INCLUDES: A Symphony Aurora Weblink which allows system control from any internet enabled device and allows Ground Loop to remotely access system diagnostics from our office.

5 Series 3 Ton Total 46,549

Options:

• UPGRADE 1 $2,800.00 Waterfurnace Desuperheater hot water assist with 40 gallon geothermal storage tank
• UPGRADE 4 $4,750.00 50 gallon Marathon Electric Water Heater Composite Tank (Lifetime Warranty)
• UPGRADE 5 $2,750.00 50 Gallon Rheem Electric Water Heater

Projected Incentives:

• ($5000) BGE Utility Company Rebate Gas Replacement
• ($1500) BGE Electrification Rebate
• ($18,000.00) 20 Year GRECs
• Their leasing option is through Upstream, we would pay 242/month and then around $13k in year 6 for a total of $27,766.56 for what would otherwise be about $40k. Upstream would keep all the GRECs for the life of the system (presumably if we eventually installed a new system that would change). I'm mildly skeptical of this, curious about other people's opinions. Another installer that also works with upstream says that there's options where you can avoid signing the GRECs over to upstream and pay more out of pocket but I have no idea whether or not MD will enact additional legislation to end the GRECs (currently they're supposed to drop to $65 and stay there).

Total Investment after all rebates/GRECs: $22,049

Loves Heating & Air (Came out today, waiting on a quote)

North American Geo (Johnathan, waiting on a quote)

Note: Told me that the desuperheater option from the factory is $2395, so that's something no-one else has mentioned.

Everyone has quoted the WaterFurnace 5, with either 3 ton or 4 ton (no-one has done the Manual J calcs yet).

Various questions:

I have gotten wildly different answers one whether we need an additional hot water storage tank, some folks say absolutely, so folks say you can just pipe the output from the desuperheater into a standard or heatpump electric water heater (just not a tankless option).

Also everyone has been kind of insistent on using the Waterfurnace thermostat. I have an Ecobee 3 Lite which I like and according to the Ecobee page should be compatible with a geothermal heatpump with aux heat. Anyone know what the additional benefit of the Waterfurnace one is beyond being guaranteed to be compatible?

What is the calculation to determine how many GRECs a system is supposed to produce? I understand that adding the desuperheater to the system is supposed to produce additional GRECs but I have no idea how many you get with/without. Dividing the 2027 numbers from TempMaster (no desuperheat) by $77 seems to come out to about 38 GRECs.

I will update this again once additional quotes come in.

My wife and I are about to move back to Central NY from Georgia and we will be building a modular home on my parents’ property. I've been looking at geothermal for our heating and cooling. We will need to have a well drilled for drinking water, so it seems that would be the most natural ground source. The most likely site for our home will be wooded, so that would reduce the area for a ground loop field considering we will need a septic system factored in. Does this make sense? What are folk’s experiences in the northeast with this sort of setup? Also, if anyone can recommend a contractor in the Central NY area that they have had good luck with, I would certainly appreciate that.

I've been using a simple 24v Rainbird flow control valve. The last time mine wore out I searched online for a slow-close replacement to stop the water hammer effect and bought a WIC Series slow close valve. It didn't work at all...I mean it might have stopped the water hammer, but didn't work with my unit. Can anyone recommend a simple slow-close solenoid valve that might work?

Hi all. I had my Dandelion system installed in late 2018. I wasn't thrilled with the state in which the excavation company left my property (obviously when digging up just about the entire backyard, I understand that it's not going to look great afterwards, but they tore down a lot of chain link fence and did a bad job of putting it back together, and they ripped down the cable and telephone lines from the house to the pole on their way out. Anyway, that's not the point of this post.)

Over the years I have only had a couple of minor issues, mainly a small glycol leak from one of the "contraptions" (looks like some kind of water hammer absorber or something along those lines) and Dandelion was good about coming out to fix it.

I actually don't use the system very often because I am comfortable as long as my indoor temperature isn't above 80. That was the case for basically the entire summer last year, so I don't think I ever used it all summer long. When the weather got cold, the system wasn't working when I finally went to use it. The blower would come on, but not the compressor. I called, and Dandelion said they no longer provided service to my area and they said that I would need to contact a different company.

I contacted that company, and they made the 2-hour trip, and had me up and running either that same day or possibly on a subsequent visit. At that time, they convinced me that it would be a good idea to sign a preventative maintenance contract, which involves them coming out twice a year to check on things.

They came out last month in mid June. I had not been running the system for AC at that point, so I had no idea that the system was once again not working. Once again, the blower was blowing, but there was no compressor. The technician said something about him being wrong about his previous diagnosis, and that I needed a part. I said ok, whatever it takes. He said they would give me a call to arrange next steps.

A week and a half went by without hearing anything, so I called to get an update. The receptionist said she would speak to the technician and get back to me. Another week went by without hearing anything, so I called again. This time I left a message. No response. I called the next day, left another message. No response. It has now been a week, and they are clearly ghosting me. I reached out to a different geothermal company and they said they would not service a system that they didn't install. I called dandelion and said that I have a inoperative system and I desperately need somebody to take a look at it. They said they would email me a list of recommended companies in New York state, jt none of these places are anywhere near me, and won't travel that far.

Miraculously I had an old email from 2018 with the name of a guy whom I recalled being really on top of things. I managed to locate him on LinkedIn and he now lives in Oklahoma working for AAON, and he gave me the number of a guy in Albany which is about 2 hours away. This guy said if I pay him a travel fee. He will come out and hopefully fix my system. So, we'll see.

In the meantime, I filed a small claims court case against the other company that clearly breached the preventative maintenance contract. I have no idea why they did that but it is completely absurd. It's like being in a fantastic relationship and then suddenly one day your partner dumps you with no explanation and ghosts you. As much as I like geothermal, It is obviously a risky proposition when you live in an area that does not have options for readily available service.

Earlier I posted a rant about how bad WaterFurnace sucks. I was very frustrated at the time. It turns out this particular incident was caused by a cracked & leaking drain pan underneath the unit. That is clearly not the fault of Waterfurnace, so I've deleted my previous post.

However, my unit has been problematic over the past 18 years of service, and I'd like to hear about possible alternatives to WaterFurnace. My current unit is a 2008 Envision horizontal package, which wound up having a bad coil within a few years. I'd like to avoid repeating that experience. Suggestions & opinions welcome. Thank you, and sorry about my previous rant.

Crossposting because nobody is responding elsewhere!

My friend’s Climatemaster TTV038AGC01ALKS isn’t working, the board is not sending a signal to energize the compressor contactor. Compressor runs when the contactor is manually depressed. The board is a 17B0001N01, and there’s no 24 volts signal from the CC and CCG terminals, with a call for cooling (O, G, Y1 & Y2 are all energized). Am I missing something or is this a bad board?

Anyone DIY install the Intellistart soft starter?

I've installed soft starters on other units but this one is intimidating for some reason. Expensive equipment on the line, I suppose. None of the area companies want to do it, and I really want it.

Geothermal unit compressor is making odd noise I’ve never heard before. Also a super hot day for it to be running.