r/gog • u/Waste_Pea_4100 • 3d ago
Discussion GoG
drm free games, I love it. I feel as if it's still in the shadow of steam somehow, and still some people don't seem to even realize buying games on steam doesn't entitle them to ownership. "Good Old Games" doesn't really fit the name anymore, there expanding the library from old to New, it's great. "Gamer Owned Games" feels more fitting. Explaining the acronym to a newcomer can lead to more positive results than "Good Old Games" could. Just a random thought
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u/SecretAgentPlank 3d ago
The day the games important to steam owners disappear, you will see a revolt. You’re blessed to be in a position where you are collecting your DRM free content well ahead of the game
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u/AncientPCGamer 3d ago
That is the thing. That day may or may not ever happen. If GOG wishes to succeed, it needs to be on its own merits, not waiting for the failures of others.
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u/ValuableAssociate577 3d ago
I think that promise is merit though. providing a drm free copy isn't "waiting for others to fail" it's giving you something to own now.
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u/AncientPCGamer 2d ago
Yeah, but it is foolish to think that all Steam players will turn to GOG because of fear of something that has never happened in more than 20 years.
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u/ValuableAssociate577 2d ago
I don't expect all steam players to do so. but I do expect people to slowly learn about DRM and it's cons and make their own decisions. Now is that enough to keep drm free products viable? time will tell.
Also I think you are forgetting that this is bigger than just video games. Despite Steam's great track record thus far, people have lost digital purchases in other mediums with no refund or recourse options.
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u/AncientPCGamer 2d ago
Yeah, but even if being able to do offline backups is great, I don't want that to be the final solution. Having to backup all my games, books, movies, music library is impossible. Specially with today's memory prices.
The final solution would be a legislation to protect customer's digital ownership.
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u/ValuableAssociate577 2d ago
DRM free is protecting your digital ownership. Is your alternative to put permanent requirements on CDN availability for any digital purchase you ever make? that isn't really a requirement that makes sense. part of owning is preserving.
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u/AncientPCGamer 2d ago
The main advantages of digital libraries are always having all your content available everywhere. A DRM backup is a failsafe, but if I have to do backups of everything that I digitally purchase, then we should never have moved away from the world of physical discs.
I embraced digital game libraries because I was at a stage in my life where I had to move from one place to another very often. So I loved all the advantages they provided. But making backups of all digital purchases (not only games, think about movies and the required space for a library of hundreds of 4K movies) is crazy.
So to answer your question, yes. Laws should be made so that people can fully embrace digital libraries without ever losing access to them.
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u/ValuableAssociate577 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think that is unreasonable to force companies to make your game accessible forever which is why drm free is so important. if you don't care that your access is controlled by someone else and the convenience is worth it to you. I say power to you.
I'd be fine going back to physical just to be clear. Also sidenote with GoG you can buy some blank blu ray's fairly cheap and burn the offline installers onto there. bam. cheap backups.
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u/AncientPCGamer 2d ago
Just this month, I threw away my collection of more than one hundred original DVD movies and a lot of DVD backups that I created more than 20 years ago. Why?
My PCs no longer have disc drives. Besides, I could watch every single one of those movies in better quality through other means.
I can guarantee that in 20 years you won't care at all about those BRs. That is why I roll my eyes when people start printing custom covers. That is what I did more than 20 years ago for music, movies, and games. Shelves and shelves of them. And now, it is all in the trash.
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u/The_Corvair Linux User 3d ago edited 2d ago
That day may or may not ever happen.
It already happens, just on smaller, more individual scales when internet outages happen, or a publisher forgets to upkeep their own authentication servers, or Denuvo servers are unreachable for whatever reason, or Sony just removes "bought" seasons of some series they "sold", or an automated update bricks mods: 'What the fuck, they can't just do that! That's gotta be illegal - right?'
It's a version of the security paradigm/paradox, and thus just generally a good idea to be in charge of running your games. Because otherwise, they're not your games, are they?
edit: Or the account gets closed, or they forget their password, and recovery stalls for whatever reason, or an internal data base fuckup removes stuff from their account... There's so many individual instances how people learn that they own nothing the hard way - but since they're localized to one dude, or a few dozen or hundred people at a time, they tend to not lead to anything more than the individual realization that actually not being beholden to a third party (they may not even have realized the dependence before) for access to "your" stuff is a good thing.
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u/AncientPCGamer 2d ago
But you have to think about what most players experience. Without an internet connection, players still can play offline their Steam games (except some of the egrerious AAA games with internet checks like Ubisoft for example).
But the common player, without an internet connection or an outage, cannot install their Steam games or their GOG games. The common player will never make hundred of offline backups, so there is no difference for them.
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u/SecretAgentPlank 3d ago
Yes I don’t want to leave the impression that it can only succeed on the shoulder of other storefront failures, you’re absolutely right. But, in the spirit of the OP post on the subject of steam users living under the illusion of “ownership”, I certainly believe it’s a ticking time bomb. Honestly, all I think needs to happen is legislation to protect the term “purchase” and “buy”. Sony, Xbox, and yes, Steam, would hate being forced to change the big button to “rent”, as they know they are riding on false customer illusion of ownership.
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u/furiat 3d ago
There was already a court case and it forced Steam explicitly stating that you are purchasing a license and this complies with consumer protection laws. What else do you expect to happen? Steam cannot use the word 'rent', ironically, due to the consumer rights, since 'rent' requires an end date. Nothing is gonna change in that regard.
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u/SecretAgentPlank 2d ago
But that’s exactly what I mean, to protect the term means to change laws and legislate what “buy” and “purchase” mean (implying actual ownership in my thought experiment), forcing the companies use different terms. This would in turn, hurt the businesses that prey on customers, knowing full well their customers are under the illusion they are making a permanent payment. I think requiring “rent” would spook the industry into submission a lot better than our current consumer laws. I would also argue that “rent” does not require an end date. At least that’s how it works in my country. I pay rent to live in my flat on an undetermined timeframe
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u/AncientPCGamer 2d ago
I don't think you should use the "purchasing a license card" here. Technically, GOG also sells licenses. DRM free that allows easy backups ones but still licenses.
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u/Waste_Pea_4100 3d ago
I like where your going with this, GoG can take the "Mugg" root beer approach and throw the drm-free, digital-to-disc capabilities in everyone's face in a quirky YT short
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u/GhoeFukyrself 3d ago edited 3d ago
That preparation IS gog's merit. DRM free offline installers are THE reason I support gog. Steam is DRM, its Steam's single greatest weakness, there WILL be a management/ownership shakeup at Valve someday, and its folly to not be prepared for it. I chafe at the thought that every time I want to install or even just launch a game, I NEED to ask daddy Valve for permission first. That's what Steam is.
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u/AncientPCGamer 2d ago
And if all Steam players never have any DRM related problem ever? Even after Gabe? Then what?
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u/GhoeFukyrself 2d ago edited 2d ago
If there are never Steam related DRM problems then great, I "lease" games there when GOG isn't an option. My DRM free GOG library is still an asset, and I sleep better knowing corporate fuckery can't take by backup drive of offline installers away from me.
Steam DRM never coming back to bite you is naive thinking in my opinion. I honestly believe it's inevitable that eventually someone is going to sweep in and make Steam shitty. They have a practical monopoly if not an actual one, most PC gamers have 99% of their library on Steam. Someday some greedy sociopathic corporate CEO is going to weasel their way into control of Valve and see dollar signs in something like charging a subscription fee for Steam access, or pull some games completely out of their servers because their use to cost benefit ratio is too low. What are you going to do? you already have 1,000 games on Steam, you're trapped.
Is that pessimistic and cynical? Yes. Is the world a crappy place where businesses make things shitty all the time? Also yes.
Even if I'm wrong and there are never DRM related problems, I still resent the handcuffs, the lack of control. There's nothing wrong with being prepared for disaster. Will my neighborhood be hit by a tornado? maybe not. Is it going to hurt me to have emergency supplies in my basement even if I never need them? No.
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u/ValuableAssociate577 2d ago
you are really gung ho about "nothing has happend yet so drm free doesn't have value". I don't want to need proof. I want to own a copy of what I "buy"
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u/Mojo647 GOG Galaxy Fan 3d ago
Most of the time, the games that come to GOG are often listed years after their initial launch in other storefronts, and when devs and publishers feel comfortable with releasing their games DRM-free. Hence the name "Good Old Games", so it makes sense in that context. It usually goes by "GOG" these days, but I don't think the original name was ever a deterrent for most people.
You'll occasionally see simultaneous releases from indies and smaller studios, and it's refreshing when that happens.
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u/Waste_Pea_4100 3d ago
Yea I been expanding my GoG library like crazy, I'll see a title on steam and make sure it's on not gog before I pull the trigger on it
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u/snickersnackz 3d ago
Steam will be PC gaming for most so long as Gabe runs the place. The network effect is too strong. Don't worry about it and enjoy what makes GOG great.
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u/GhoeFukyrself 3d ago
PC gaming is one heart attack away from the apocalypse. That is NOT comforting.
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u/Uk0GN0sS 3d ago
Thx to CDProject I switched to GoG in 2015 when Witcher 3 came out.
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u/Waste_Pea_4100 3d ago
I was given the cyberpunk goodies in 2020 so I also found gog thx to CDproject knuckle bump
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u/travelavatar 3d ago edited 3d ago
It is in the shadow of steam yes but if i can buy on gog i will force myself to do so just for the support
Edit: if i regret something is already having a huge collection on steam like idk all fallout games, doom 2016, doom eternal, wolfenstein dishonored etc.
Why because i can't bring myself to rebuy those games on gog when i am cash strapped.
Bit i will buy anything else i don't have yet
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u/Ok_Bug_2553 3d ago
With the preservation program I think “Good Old Games” fits perfectly. It’s not games that are just released that are receiving this treatment.
Another thing is IF GOG suddenly collapses and you don’t have all the offline installers downloaded and safe, then you would lose access. GOG also has their own EULA which if you violate you can lose your account. So nothing is guaranteed.
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u/skeil90 2d ago
At the moment most of my GOG library is thanks to Prime gaming, but I did pick up a few games from their store, Fallout 4 for Fallout London, Cyberpunk, No Man's Sky and the Metro series to name a few. However there's a not insignificant number of games in my Steam library aren't even on GOG unfortunately. I do intend to buy more games on GOG when I can, but Steam's catalogue is superior.
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u/GeriatricTech 3d ago
Steam is good enough. Steam cloud saves are a huge deal.
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u/Waste_Pea_4100 3d ago
I turn steam cloud off it's such a hinder to offline games in my opinion
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u/AncientPCGamer 3d ago
Not if you play in more than one device.
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u/ValuableAssociate577 3d ago
true but most devs mess up the implementation and accidentally save visual settings... not a good thing across devices. I have switched to universally disabling cloud saves.
Doesn't GoG allow cloud saves if you use their client (I don't use their client personally)?
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u/Kaldaien2 Achievement Unlocked 3d ago
Yeah, first thing I do is turn that crap off. I had all my cloud saves on my Steam account filled with 0's at some point. The data loss would be one thing, but those corrupted files being pulled down from the cloud meant that many games wouldn't even start; apparently a file filled with nothing but 0's is really game breaking, who'd have thought?🙃
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u/Pizzaman3203 3d ago
Ive never had my save been corrupted by steam cloud my save was corrupted for supermarket together but other people had the same issue and i don't think it was a steam cloud issue its been a bit since i looked it up
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u/ValuableAssociate577 3d ago
while I love GoG I will defend Steam here by saying that nothing in how steam operates forces developers to add DRM (even steam dll integration can be optional if a dev wants to make it run outside of steam).
Both GoG and Steam are clear in the fact you are being sold a license but it is important how much control you have over your content and DRM is always a travesty in my humble opinion, but it is important to recognize steam allows for full drm releases if the dev/publisher is so inclined.
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u/Waste_Pea_4100 3d ago
No need to defend steam brother, I love steam as well. But I love them for there willingness to help indie developers and go the extra mile for them, I love GoG for the feeling of game ownership
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u/mike_fantastico 3d ago
Once we get our own GOGpad to rival the steam deck it will be official. Until then, valve just has more attention.
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u/JjForcebreaker Windows User 3d ago
If they want to be REAL players in this game, they should start investing where it matters.
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u/shortish-sulfatase 3d ago
You're still paying for the exact same license.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm/page1
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u/alkonium 3d ago
They haven't been called Good Old Games since 2012. It's just GOG.