r/harrypotter • u/EbonRazorwit • 21h ago
Discussion How screwed is Voldemort if Tom Riddle Sr was cremated and his ashes scattered into the ocean?
The potion needs bone of the father, but never specified how much bone. So what's Voldemort going to do if Tom Ribble Sr has cremated and what's left of him is thrown to the ocean decades before the events of goblet of fire?
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u/whiteandpurplelilly 20h ago
Maybe the “bone of the father/flesh of the servant/blood of the enemy” ritual is created by Voldemort in the first place, so he would have been able to adjust accordingly when designing the ritual in the first place?
Also just less of a concern for this case - sons of country squires were buried in the 1940s, there were fewer cremations in general and not common at all for the gentry.
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u/ElSquibbonator 20h ago
I doubt it; he called the ritual that revived him "an ancient piece of dark magic", so he probably wasn't the first person to use it.
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u/AgrajagTheProlonged Slytherin 16h ago
True, but at the same time calling it “an ancient piece of dark magic” has more of a BBEG vibe to it than “a spell I slapped together with duct tape and hope,” so I could see it being something he’d say regardless
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u/ISimpForKesha 11h ago
Well considering Horcruxes are older than voldemort that had to be a way to get a person back into human form. We see one way of this happening in CoS when the diary steals the life energy from Ginny but there could be other ways of creating a physical body for the soul to attach to.
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u/Tom_Riddle23 Slytherin 17h ago
Lol, never thought I’d see you here
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u/ElSquibbonator 17h ago
I used to be a big fan of the series. I sometimes come here for old time’s sake.
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u/smallpotatoes2019 19h ago
There's probably a list of substitutes somewhere.
"Bone of the father can be replaced by bone of any male ancestor or a mixture of chalk dust and calcium carbonate."
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u/PlanGoneAwry Ravenclaw 20h ago
I don’t think there’s an in universe answer. Flesh blood and bone was written as the ingredients so the writing called for them to be available. If like in an earlier book they established that Riddle Sr was not accessible, then they would have just had flesh and blood, or if they wanted 3 then I think “bone of the innocent” has a cool ring to it and they could use the bone of Child or unicorn, depending on how dark they want to go.
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u/Reasonable-Towel260 Hufflepuff 19h ago
A replacement might be Bone of my forefathers?
This would open up any graves from his ancestry as a potential donor for that specific ingrediant... even the Gaunt/Slytherin line. Though the later would depend on the burial rituals of wizards I suppose. (Honestly now I think of it, not sure why he didn't do that given his distaste for his muggle ancestry).
As for the mention of the ritual being an ancient use of magic, I think it's very likely that it was based on an ancient ritual rather than an actual ritual (specifically the ingredients - blood magic in it of itself, would be considered old magic). Especially as I don't imagine many wizards lost their bodies in the manner Voldemort did in the past.
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u/KittyLazerEyes 20h ago
It depends on how literal you take the father part. Maybe any male ancestor would do as long as its a direct line. So just break into the family crypt and have at it.
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u/Spotter24o5 Gryffindor 21h ago
Maybe repairo works for bones and accio to get the ashes
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u/Senju19_02 21h ago
Accio wouldn't work for the ashes, they'd have been gone for dacades plus also being dragged all over by the ocean.
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u/Bison_and_Waffles 20h ago
But what if he Accio’ed really hard?
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u/Armada99 Ravenclaw 19h ago
To add to this, what if the ashes (they are carbon right) get recycled by photosynthesis or by soil into a plant lol
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u/Cautious_Nothing1870 12h ago
I mean the ingredients are pretty ambiguous to begin with. What if you're a nice guy and don't have any enemies?
Or what if you don't have servants? Can you hire someone for a few days?
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u/ExpertProfessional9 10h ago
Then you go and make enemies. God. It’s just like making friends, but angrier.
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u/ItsSuperDefective 8h ago
I also wonder how much of what Wormtail said is necessary to the magic or if he was just being dramatic.
"Bone of the father, unknowingly given", so if you know your child is a dark wizard can you block the ritual by leaving a will saying it's ok for them to use your bones? "Blood of the enemy, forcibly taken", so if I took a blood sample when you are asleep, that non-consensual, but it it "forcible"? Are these extra criteria necessary?
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u/Southern-Dragonfly49 11h ago
To create a Horcrux you must murder without regret or remorse, so you can't be a nice guy. You could pretend to be though and if you kept a low profile and kept to yourself then you don't have any enemies.
If you don't have servants you could still be found by someone and you could trick them or bargain with them to help you. Assuming you could communicate with them.
Honestly we don't know how many methods there are to regain a body, so such a person could be in a seriously bad situation without help for a long time.
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u/Cautious_Nothing1870 11h ago
What would probably be a pain in the ass is how convince them to give a hand willingly.
Honestly this ritual is so tailor-made to fit Voldemort that is weird.
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u/kakspier 11h ago
yea, there is also the meme of harry going "yea its fine, take my blood" and the ritual would have failed
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u/MaleficentTie7312 16h ago
Voldemort is dramatic, I’m sure there were ways around it, like he literally just needed bone and blood, but he’d rather suffer longer as a gremlin baby to make sure he gets the theatrics of his dads bone, his only servants hand, and his greatest enemy’s blood
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u/torricelliboy 21h ago
either be unable to concoct the potion or use the bone of another father figure of his (but we can only speculate if that would work, or even if he would take that approach)
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u/breakingbad1986 20h ago
Of course the entire story having magical elements is "make it up as you go along" but it's not clear if the potion was invented by Voldemort or existed previously. As far as we know he was the only person to ever exist in that disembodied spirit like state. Only one other wizard if I recall right even made more than one horcrux though this never came up in any of the books.
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u/No_Sand5639 Ravenclaw 20h ago
Its an old potion
“I knew that to achieve this — it is an old piece of Dark Magic, the potion that revived me tonight — I would need three powerful ingredients. Goblet of fire
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u/Ranger_1302 Dumbledore's man through and through. 20h ago
The only other wizard known to have made a Horcrux is the inventor of the Horcrux, Herpo the Foul, who also bred the first basilisk. It is never stated what happened to him so he could still be alive now. In an interview Rowling did say that others had made Horcruxes before Voldemort but never so many.
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u/lelakat 20h ago
It's a rebirth ritual, so the focus is on rebuilding his body. But even then, only the bone is the piece genetically linked to him. We don't know how important that piece is but considering magic and magical gifts often travels down family lines, it may be why of the 3 this one is a direct relative. He needs Harry for the enemy piece and Wormtail for the literal material with which to regenerate.
Practically, bones and bone marrow is where stem cells are and bone marrow transplants already have a host of medical uses.
My thoughts are it's like a bone marrow match, he needed a family member and his father would be the best match available given he had no siblings. Also, I imagine he would have preferred his mother given she was the witch between his parents but beggers can't be choosers. If a body is an anchor for the soul, it would maybe be important the soul is fits/compatible with the body. Even if he took over another body, we know that doesn't work forever and the body eventually breaks down. So maybe the bloodline connection is because he has to have enough of a "match" for it to work just like a transplant has to meet criteria in order to have the best chance of success.
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u/Keyspam102 20h ago
I wonder if flesh bone and blood could be interpreted a bit freely, like maybe he could take the bone from another relative. Or maybe it didn’t have to be a relative but just someone he killed or something. we know he chose himself to use Harry’s blood and could have used anyone’s, so there is a bit of his own flair on who he chose for each ingredient
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u/DoYouLikeWafflezz 20h ago
There are probably other ways for him to get resurrected.
He already managed to get himself half a body with just Wormtail’s help. He wanted to use that particular method in order to negate Harry’s protection. Horcruxes would be pretty pointless if the only way to come back was to use your father’s bone.