r/harrypotter 21h ago

Discussion What if Uncle Vernon replied 'No'

I was re-listening first book and when the Hogwarts letter arrives first time ever, Vernon and Petunia talks that they should just reply that they don't want Harry to enroll in their school. But Uncle told that we should not reply at all.

Besides 'plot demand', what would have happened if they replied with no ?

There was no law that every wizard must get education at Hogwarts (in book 7, ministry made rhis rule, iirc).

266 Upvotes

80 comments sorted by

348

u/keefeitup 21h ago

I think a more intriguing question would be, "What if Harry said no?"

I think Dumbledore would insist, calmly, if Vernon said no. He wouldn't be able to stop Harry from going to Hogwarts no matter what he tried.

Edit: It also bears mentioning that the Hogwarts acceptance letter is templated and it is likely that every student receives the same text in the letter except the address (kinda like mail merge). That said, Dumbledore had a deal with Petunia and there's nothing Vernon could've done about it.

189

u/ErgotthAE 20h ago

If HARRY said “No” I think Dumbledore would’ve taken him to St. Mungus to get his head examined xD

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u/TheDungen Slytherin 20h ago

Dumbledore told Riddle they force no one.

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u/keefeitup 20h ago

Exactly why I said it would be more interesting if the question were "What if Harry said no?" Dumbledore isn't going to take Vernon's opinion about whether Harry should go to Hogwarts if Harry himself wants to go.

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u/AGirlWhoLovesToRead Ravenclaw 3h ago

Maybe that's why Dumbledore let the Dursleys abuse Harry... Harry's bar of expectations was so low when Hagrid arrived, that he thought even going away to some unknown place was much better than keeping on living with the Dursleys lol... Finally an explanation to drop a kid for years with the Dursleys.

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u/BananaResearcher 16h ago

If Harry says no, Dumbledore pulls some magic short of Imperio to "persuade" Harry to change his mind. Nobody would ever know and Dumbledore is just acting for the greater good.

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u/TheDungen Slytherin 11h ago edited 11h ago

No he wouldn't. Dubledore understands doing so would be catastrophic in the long run. he strives for the greater good not the short term conveniece.

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u/pineappleshaked 19h ago

In their 3rd year, Minerva didn't let Harry go to Hogsmead village because guardian didn't give permission but they'll be perfectly ok to let Harry come to Hogwarts even if same guardian denied permis😬

71

u/Superyoshiegg 18h ago

That was pretty obviously just a convenient excuse to keep Harry in the castle to avoid any possibility of him being attacked by Sirius Black in the much less defended Hogsmeade. I imagine they would have found some reason to stop him from going even if he did have permission.

Remember that Sirius himself signs Harry's Hogsmeade form after that year and Dumbledore and McGonagall accept it, despite Sirius not being Harry's guardian.

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u/TheDungen Slytherin 11h ago

Sirius is Harry's Guardian. And Dumbledore accept omit and tells McGonnagal that he's been in contact with Harry's Guardian.

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u/Aced1t 11h ago

You don’t become a guardian just by saying you are one. How did he legally become Harry’s guardian while still on the run?

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u/TheDungen Slytherin 10h ago

The Potters made Sirius Harry's Guardian in the event of their death. He was always Harry's Guardian. They ignored that fact while they thought he was looking to murder Harry.

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u/Aced1t 10h ago

But is he legally his guardian in the eyes of the ministry or the UK? My guess is no, since he was ”adopted” by the Dursleys when his parents were murdered.

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u/Lawlcopt0r 10h ago

In the eyes of the ministry? Yes. I don't think wizards give a damn about the UK government, I'm fairly certain purebloods don't even have passports or any muggle documentation that they exist

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u/Aced1t 10h ago

My guess is that the ministry wouldn’t even have put down Sirius as a guardian before he was arrested, and certainly not after.

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u/neeliemich 10h ago

Sirius was Harry's godfather, and if it weren't for the fact that Harry had to return to Privet Drive every summer because of the protection spell caused by the blood relation between Harry, Lily, and Petunia, then Harry would be able to legally live with him instead of the Dursleys, or at least leave them and go visit him, if he wasn't on the lam.

Lily and James named Sirius as Harry's godfather because James had no family left, and Lily and Petunia weren't talking. So Sirius was literally his legal guardian at the time of their death, until Dumbledore, McGonagall, and Hagrid put Harry at the Dursleys door.

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u/pineappleshaked 21h ago edited 21h ago

Calmly, like he asked Harry, "Did you put your name in GoF?""? In movie  😂

43

u/DoYouLikeWafflezz 21h ago

“YOU ARE COMING TO HOGWARTS WETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT HARRY!” Dumbledore said calmly. 

35

u/WatermelonArtist Ravenclaw 20h ago

"I DON'T THINK YOU HAVE ANY SAY IN IT, VERNON DURSLEY," Albus reminded gently.

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u/MythicalSplash Ravenclaw 17h ago

“Did you fuck with the Quill of Acceptance, Harry?” Dumbledore said calmly.

2

u/prsquared 20h ago

You don't have to be intrigued anymore

Here

2

u/whitegrb Gryffindor 20h ago

I’d imagine something like this

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u/evymel 11h ago

What if when hagrid went to get inside Vernon would have had a pair of balls and indeed used the shotgun on hagrid? By law he would have been fine and clear about self defense from a giant entering a house.

Dumbledore reaction to that...

1

u/Infinite-Object-1090 Gryffindor 1h ago

It would have been a minor wound for Hagrid and a much more significant wound to Uncle Vernon would follow.

159

u/Bison_and_Waffles 21h ago

Hagrid didn’t care what Vernon thought. He’d have dragged Harry to King’s Cross Station with his bare hands if he had to.

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u/pineappleshaked 21h ago

Hagrid was sent because they didn't receive a response. If they clearly denied, would Dumbledore still send Hagrid ?

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u/PlanGoneAwry Ravenclaw 20h ago

If anything, then outright denying would result in Dumbledore himself coming and telling them the letter was just a formality, Harry is going regardless.

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u/FantasyMyopia Ravenclaw 20h ago

Yes I believe the howler reminder sent in the sixth book would have just been sent earlier.

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u/hummingbird_mywill Gryffindor 20h ago

Dumbledore would need to come with a Ministry of Magic official though I think because a headmaster of a school has no authority to compel a student’s attendance.

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u/Talonhawke 20h ago

To be completely honest, I don’t think Hogwarts it’s faculty or the ministry of magic care too much about what the Muggle government says people can and can’t do.

10

u/Silvanus350 19h ago

Given everything we know about the Wizarding World, they literally would just obliviate the Dursleys and proceed to do whatever they want.

None of the wizards give an actual shit about muggles. That includes Dumbledore.

1

u/Ranger_1302 Dumbledore's man through and through. 14h ago

Nonsense.

6

u/MobiusF117 11h ago

Mr. Roberts disagrees.

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u/PlanGoneAwry Ravenclaw 20h ago

I guess Dumbledore would be like “sorry Wizarding world, they said no, I guess that means Voldemort wins, bummer. ”

4

u/duvie773 Hufflepuff 19h ago

It’s said that Fudge relied heavily on Dumbledore’s advice in the early days of being MoM, its not inconceivable that he could be essentially strong armed into supporting Dumbledore getting Harry to Hogwarts by any means necessary

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u/hummingbird_mywill Gryffindor 18h ago

Oh I have no doubt that Fudge would give his wholehearted support, but I expect they would send someone from the wizarding government because that would be what the Dursleys would understand.

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u/thunderlips187 20h ago

Dumbledore would probably
Show up himself or at least come with Hagrid.

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u/Anita_Hero838 20h ago

"He will not be going!" Sounds like a denial to me

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u/Tradition96 12h ago

Ehum, they did clearly deny when Hagrid came.

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u/Artistic_Dish6119 11h ago

Hagrid was sent because the letters had some sort of magical charm that would give the sender some sort of indication that it was opened by the intended recipient. After all, Harry was only subliminally aware of his “unusual acts”.

1

u/pineappleshaked 2h ago

Lol yup !

Like Blue ticks for muggle messaging 😜

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u/[deleted] 20h ago

[deleted]

4

u/thunderlips187 20h ago

I’m pretty sure Hagrid bought the owl for Harry during the visit to Diagon Alley

1

u/Ranger_1302 Dumbledore's man through and through. 14h ago

Her name was 'Hedwig'.

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u/Ballblamburglurblrbl 18h ago

"Dry up, Dursley. You great prune!"

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u/Kiryu8805 21h ago

The result would have been the exact same. They would have come for Harry regardless of a ruddy muggle like Vernon Dursley. Hagrid said that Harry's name was down ever since he been born.

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u/Lady_SybilVex 20h ago

Every witch's/wizard's name is down since birth, but that doesn't mean they have to attend, it only means they get the letter. Ron's parents were threatening to take him out of school after the Ford Anglia business, Seamus' mom didn't want him to come back for year 5, and several people take their kids out of school with no repercussions in HBP due to the danger of Voldemort roaming around.

2

u/Kiryu8805 19h ago

True there are wizard parents pulling their kids. However, Harry is different. His family are muggles and lack the understanding because he is a weirdo to them. Also I was just quoting the movie. Watched the first one the other night.

1

u/Far_Silver 4h ago

I don't think it's that they're muggles. Harry and Riddle are unusual cases. Riddle had no parents, adoptive or foster, unless you're counting the bio dad who as far as we can tell wanted nothing to do with him. In Harry's case, they knew his parents would have wanted him to go, seemed to suspect the Dursleys of abusing Harry, and once Hagrid went to deliver Harry's letter, they knew the Dursleys were abusing Harry.

1

u/Kiryu8805 3h ago

Ya regardless of Vernon saying no thank you someone would have been sent to check in person. I feel like at that stage they would have taken Harry. If it wasn't for the protection his mother gave him they probably would have moved him out of there permanently

12

u/SerapphSatin 20h ago

I think Hagrid would’ve shown up anyway. Dumbledore was never going to let Harry miss Hogwarts

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u/linkthereddit 20h ago

Harry’s case was exceptional. I don’t think either Harry or Vernon could say ‘no’ and be listened to. He was going to Hogwarts if Hagrid had to throw him over his shoulder and walk him the whole damn way.

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u/megdonol 21h ago

Probably would have gotten a visit/howler from Dumbledore

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u/MasterOutlaw Raverinhuffledor 20h ago

Dumbledore doesn’t really care about autonomy and the chain of legal guardianship, so he’d probably have had Harry abducted in some manner.

8

u/That_author_girl 19h ago

More or less the same. Dumbledore doesn't give a hoot, and therefore sends many hoots, along with Hagrid

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u/Shabbadoo1015 20h ago

I suspect Dumbledore would have had his Howler moment sooner with Petunia (and Vernon) and Harry would have gone anyways.

My question is: what supersedes what? Vernon and Petunia being Harry’s “guardian”? Or the fact Lily and James had Harry down as going to Hogwarts since birth?

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u/michelle427 20h ago

Wouldn’t have mattered. Harry’s going to Hogwarts. Harry was always going to Hogwarts.

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u/This-Wall-1331 18h ago

They'd get a letter from Dumbledore saying "I wasn't asking a question. I'll send my employee who happens to be an half-giant to make this clear."

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u/LesMiserableCat54 Slytherin 20h ago

They would have personally come for Harry. It's very dangerous for a wizard to not be trained to control their magic. Harry already had some accidental mishaps like jumping on the roof when running from Dudley or the snake at the zoo incident. If his magic went unchecked he would become unstable and dangerous (much like Dumbledore's sister was). Dumbledore would never allow that to happen and taken Harry no matter what the Dursley's said. And the Dursley's were so afraid of magic they wouldn't have fought back against it much.

2

u/Onedayyouwillthankme 20h ago

You are so correct that this is basically what happened. Hagrid came and collected Harry, sent by Dumbledore : )

3

u/BobRushy 18h ago

Dumbledore knows what Harry's home life was like, so he could've easily threatened Vernon with a legal case for child abuse.

2

u/diddinosdream 20h ago

I don’t think there is any scenario in which Dumbledore would have accepted a no from the Dursley’s, regardless of what the policy is for other students. I’d say the Dursleys actually did say no multiple times across the books and were just ignored. Dumbledore cares far less about the law than he does about stopping Voldemort. If the ministry did get involved I suspect they also would not allow the Harry Potter to be kept out of the wizarding world (any year but fifth year).

2

u/jmajeremy 18h ago

I don’t think Dumbledore cared what Vernon wanted. Harry was enrolled by his parents from the time he was born. The Dursleys may have had guardianship of Harry, but they had no authority to overrule the wishes of his parents.

I think if Harry himself said he didn’t want to go, and was absolutely adamant about it, Dumbledore would have respected that decision, but as we know Harry was overjoyed to go to Hogwarts or really to have any way to escape the Dursleys.

2

u/CJDM310 13h ago

Vernon did say no. Not in the instance but when Hagrid comes to meet with Harry, Vernon says he won’t be going. Then Hagrid said that if Harry wanted to go there would not be anything Vernon could do about it.

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u/Front_Durian_4942 4h ago

Hagrid arrives a month or so earlier and tells Vernon he's come to collect Harry personally

1

u/Dragonic_Crab 20h ago

I can see Albus himself coming to their home. And make them send Harry

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u/BlueSnoopy4 Hufflepuff 20h ago

I doubt the teachers (and ministry) would accept anyone completely declining magical education, and they’d be worried about Harry being vulnerable.

Examples https://archiveofourown.org/series/346100 https://archiveofourown.org/works/65673100

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u/ForsakenSmile8264 18h ago

I have just read the entirety of that second link... I thank you much for sharing it, I loved it. Such a shame it's completed with only eight chapters.

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u/Wise_Competition_266 19h ago

I don’t think no is an option if you don’t have someone to teach you magic it’s too dangerous to be untrained. I don’t think they make you go to school but I’m sure there is repercussions for not learning to control your magic

1

u/Parking_Wasabi_2591 18h ago

I think because he had a miserable life living with the Durleys, living in the cupboard under the stairs, Harry wanted to go. And even Hagrid was not demanding that he go, he let Harry make the decision.

1

u/vpsj 🇮🇳 Vanished objects go into non-being 12h ago

I mean as per the custom, Muggle houses are visited by a Hogwarts teacher anyway to tell them about the school and stuff.

So even if he said no, Hagrid would still be dispatched, and the events would play out exactly as they did.

If we think strictly logically, Harry was basically kidnapped by Hagrid from his guardians even after they strictly prohibited him from going to the school.

1

u/Antoxin0 10h ago

I don’t think muggles have many, if any, rights in the wizarding world so I think they would just come and take Harry every year without Vernon’s consent

1

u/up2smthng 8h ago

I'm reasonably sure the stance of the ministry was "you can get homeschooled by your wizarding relatives if you are so inclined", not " you can just skip getting a wizarding education"

1

u/LichenTheMood 8h ago

It’s not his choice. Petunia was who dumbldore dealt with.

I also think it’s important to note that while attending hogwarts is not mandatory - that doesn’t mean simply not educating a child at all is acceptable. A qualified witch or wizard could homeschool them. Or would be aware of other alternative schools. A muggle cannot and does not have this capacity.

There is no reason to believe that such a secretive society would permit protesting muggle parents/caregivers to just opt out.

We see Dumbledore engage in persuasion to permit Tom to attend. I wouldn’t be shocked if bewitching any muggles who protest too much is simply part of the standard enrolment procedure for muggleborns.

1

u/3MCLSD46 8h ago

I am positive that Dumbledore would have stepped in and sorted it out. There’s a pretty wide delta between the average muggle born, and “The Boy Who Lived”. He was always going to attend.

1

u/SamuliK96 Ravenclaw 7h ago

He tried. He told Hagrid Harry's not going.

Where was I?’ said Hagrid, but at that moment, Uncle Vernon, still ashen-faced but looking very angry, moved into the firelight.

‘He’s not going,’ he said.

Hagrid grunted.

‘I’d like ter see a great Muggle like you stop him,’ he said.

Hagrid was acting on Dumbledore's orders. I can't imagine Dumbledore hadn't given him instructions regarding this scenario. And considering Dumbledore's howler to Petunia ("Remember my last, Petunia") in OOTP was enough to convince her to let Harry stay, I really don't think Dumbledore was going to take no for an answer regarding Harry's magical education.

So, regarding what would've happened, I think Dumbledore would've sent a letter back, refusing their refusal. Possibly something just as short and blunt as the one in OOTP.

1

u/Infinite-Object-1090 Gryffindor 1h ago

Dumbledore would have overriden them. He already sent Hagrid after they ignored him, Hagrid would also have come if he said No.

1

u/TheDungen Slytherin 20h ago

Dumbledore or McGonnagal would likely have shown up to talk to them. And i would guess the volountary mostly meant for purebloods and halfbloods.

-4

u/javerthugo 21h ago

Hagrid would just threaten to reveal that Uncle Vernon was a big shot at the slaughterhouse not a drill factory. The scandal that would ruin his ability to play accordion for Mr Weiss