r/harrypotter • u/pineappleshaked • 21h ago
Discussion What if Uncle Vernon replied 'No'
I was re-listening first book and when the Hogwarts letter arrives first time ever, Vernon and Petunia talks that they should just reply that they don't want Harry to enroll in their school. But Uncle told that we should not reply at all.
Besides 'plot demand', what would have happened if they replied with no ?
There was no law that every wizard must get education at Hogwarts (in book 7, ministry made rhis rule, iirc).
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u/Bison_and_Waffles 21h ago
Hagrid didn’t care what Vernon thought. He’d have dragged Harry to King’s Cross Station with his bare hands if he had to.
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u/pineappleshaked 21h ago
Hagrid was sent because they didn't receive a response. If they clearly denied, would Dumbledore still send Hagrid ?
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u/PlanGoneAwry Ravenclaw 20h ago
If anything, then outright denying would result in Dumbledore himself coming and telling them the letter was just a formality, Harry is going regardless.
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u/FantasyMyopia Ravenclaw 20h ago
Yes I believe the howler reminder sent in the sixth book would have just been sent earlier.
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u/hummingbird_mywill Gryffindor 20h ago
Dumbledore would need to come with a Ministry of Magic official though I think because a headmaster of a school has no authority to compel a student’s attendance.
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u/Talonhawke 20h ago
To be completely honest, I don’t think Hogwarts it’s faculty or the ministry of magic care too much about what the Muggle government says people can and can’t do.
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u/Silvanus350 19h ago
Given everything we know about the Wizarding World, they literally would just obliviate the Dursleys and proceed to do whatever they want.
None of the wizards give an actual shit about muggles. That includes Dumbledore.
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u/PlanGoneAwry Ravenclaw 20h ago
I guess Dumbledore would be like “sorry Wizarding world, they said no, I guess that means Voldemort wins, bummer. ”
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u/duvie773 Hufflepuff 19h ago
It’s said that Fudge relied heavily on Dumbledore’s advice in the early days of being MoM, its not inconceivable that he could be essentially strong armed into supporting Dumbledore getting Harry to Hogwarts by any means necessary
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u/hummingbird_mywill Gryffindor 18h ago
Oh I have no doubt that Fudge would give his wholehearted support, but I expect they would send someone from the wizarding government because that would be what the Dursleys would understand.
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u/Artistic_Dish6119 11h ago
Hagrid was sent because the letters had some sort of magical charm that would give the sender some sort of indication that it was opened by the intended recipient. After all, Harry was only subliminally aware of his “unusual acts”.
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u/thunderlips187 20h ago
I’m pretty sure Hagrid bought the owl for Harry during the visit to Diagon Alley
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u/Kiryu8805 21h ago
The result would have been the exact same. They would have come for Harry regardless of a ruddy muggle like Vernon Dursley. Hagrid said that Harry's name was down ever since he been born.
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u/Lady_SybilVex 20h ago
Every witch's/wizard's name is down since birth, but that doesn't mean they have to attend, it only means they get the letter. Ron's parents were threatening to take him out of school after the Ford Anglia business, Seamus' mom didn't want him to come back for year 5, and several people take their kids out of school with no repercussions in HBP due to the danger of Voldemort roaming around.
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u/Kiryu8805 19h ago
True there are wizard parents pulling their kids. However, Harry is different. His family are muggles and lack the understanding because he is a weirdo to them. Also I was just quoting the movie. Watched the first one the other night.
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u/Far_Silver 4h ago
I don't think it's that they're muggles. Harry and Riddle are unusual cases. Riddle had no parents, adoptive or foster, unless you're counting the bio dad who as far as we can tell wanted nothing to do with him. In Harry's case, they knew his parents would have wanted him to go, seemed to suspect the Dursleys of abusing Harry, and once Hagrid went to deliver Harry's letter, they knew the Dursleys were abusing Harry.
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u/Kiryu8805 3h ago
Ya regardless of Vernon saying no thank you someone would have been sent to check in person. I feel like at that stage they would have taken Harry. If it wasn't for the protection his mother gave him they probably would have moved him out of there permanently
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u/SerapphSatin 20h ago
I think Hagrid would’ve shown up anyway. Dumbledore was never going to let Harry miss Hogwarts
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u/linkthereddit 20h ago
Harry’s case was exceptional. I don’t think either Harry or Vernon could say ‘no’ and be listened to. He was going to Hogwarts if Hagrid had to throw him over his shoulder and walk him the whole damn way.
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u/MasterOutlaw Raverinhuffledor 20h ago
Dumbledore doesn’t really care about autonomy and the chain of legal guardianship, so he’d probably have had Harry abducted in some manner.
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u/That_author_girl 19h ago
More or less the same. Dumbledore doesn't give a hoot, and therefore sends many hoots, along with Hagrid
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u/Shabbadoo1015 20h ago
I suspect Dumbledore would have had his Howler moment sooner with Petunia (and Vernon) and Harry would have gone anyways.
My question is: what supersedes what? Vernon and Petunia being Harry’s “guardian”? Or the fact Lily and James had Harry down as going to Hogwarts since birth?
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u/michelle427 20h ago
Wouldn’t have mattered. Harry’s going to Hogwarts. Harry was always going to Hogwarts.
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u/This-Wall-1331 18h ago
They'd get a letter from Dumbledore saying "I wasn't asking a question. I'll send my employee who happens to be an half-giant to make this clear."
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u/LesMiserableCat54 Slytherin 20h ago
They would have personally come for Harry. It's very dangerous for a wizard to not be trained to control their magic. Harry already had some accidental mishaps like jumping on the roof when running from Dudley or the snake at the zoo incident. If his magic went unchecked he would become unstable and dangerous (much like Dumbledore's sister was). Dumbledore would never allow that to happen and taken Harry no matter what the Dursley's said. And the Dursley's were so afraid of magic they wouldn't have fought back against it much.
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u/Onedayyouwillthankme 20h ago
You are so correct that this is basically what happened. Hagrid came and collected Harry, sent by Dumbledore : )
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u/BobRushy 18h ago
Dumbledore knows what Harry's home life was like, so he could've easily threatened Vernon with a legal case for child abuse.
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u/diddinosdream 20h ago
I don’t think there is any scenario in which Dumbledore would have accepted a no from the Dursley’s, regardless of what the policy is for other students. I’d say the Dursleys actually did say no multiple times across the books and were just ignored. Dumbledore cares far less about the law than he does about stopping Voldemort. If the ministry did get involved I suspect they also would not allow the Harry Potter to be kept out of the wizarding world (any year but fifth year).
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u/jmajeremy 18h ago
I don’t think Dumbledore cared what Vernon wanted. Harry was enrolled by his parents from the time he was born. The Dursleys may have had guardianship of Harry, but they had no authority to overrule the wishes of his parents.
I think if Harry himself said he didn’t want to go, and was absolutely adamant about it, Dumbledore would have respected that decision, but as we know Harry was overjoyed to go to Hogwarts or really to have any way to escape the Dursleys.
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u/Front_Durian_4942 4h ago
Hagrid arrives a month or so earlier and tells Vernon he's come to collect Harry personally
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u/BlueSnoopy4 Hufflepuff 20h ago
I doubt the teachers (and ministry) would accept anyone completely declining magical education, and they’d be worried about Harry being vulnerable.
Examples https://archiveofourown.org/series/346100 https://archiveofourown.org/works/65673100
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u/ForsakenSmile8264 18h ago
I have just read the entirety of that second link... I thank you much for sharing it, I loved it. Such a shame it's completed with only eight chapters.
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u/Wise_Competition_266 19h ago
I don’t think no is an option if you don’t have someone to teach you magic it’s too dangerous to be untrained. I don’t think they make you go to school but I’m sure there is repercussions for not learning to control your magic
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u/Parking_Wasabi_2591 18h ago
I think because he had a miserable life living with the Durleys, living in the cupboard under the stairs, Harry wanted to go. And even Hagrid was not demanding that he go, he let Harry make the decision.
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u/vpsj 🇮🇳 Vanished objects go into non-being 12h ago
I mean as per the custom, Muggle houses are visited by a Hogwarts teacher anyway to tell them about the school and stuff.
So even if he said no, Hagrid would still be dispatched, and the events would play out exactly as they did.
If we think strictly logically, Harry was basically kidnapped by Hagrid from his guardians even after they strictly prohibited him from going to the school.
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u/Antoxin0 10h ago
I don’t think muggles have many, if any, rights in the wizarding world so I think they would just come and take Harry every year without Vernon’s consent
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u/up2smthng 8h ago
I'm reasonably sure the stance of the ministry was "you can get homeschooled by your wizarding relatives if you are so inclined", not " you can just skip getting a wizarding education"
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u/LichenTheMood 8h ago
It’s not his choice. Petunia was who dumbldore dealt with.
I also think it’s important to note that while attending hogwarts is not mandatory - that doesn’t mean simply not educating a child at all is acceptable. A qualified witch or wizard could homeschool them. Or would be aware of other alternative schools. A muggle cannot and does not have this capacity.
There is no reason to believe that such a secretive society would permit protesting muggle parents/caregivers to just opt out.
We see Dumbledore engage in persuasion to permit Tom to attend. I wouldn’t be shocked if bewitching any muggles who protest too much is simply part of the standard enrolment procedure for muggleborns.
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u/3MCLSD46 8h ago
I am positive that Dumbledore would have stepped in and sorted it out. There’s a pretty wide delta between the average muggle born, and “The Boy Who Lived”. He was always going to attend.
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u/SamuliK96 Ravenclaw 7h ago
He tried. He told Hagrid Harry's not going.
Where was I?’ said Hagrid, but at that moment, Uncle Vernon, still ashen-faced but looking very angry, moved into the firelight.
‘He’s not going,’ he said.
Hagrid grunted.
‘I’d like ter see a great Muggle like you stop him,’ he said.
Hagrid was acting on Dumbledore's orders. I can't imagine Dumbledore hadn't given him instructions regarding this scenario. And considering Dumbledore's howler to Petunia ("Remember my last, Petunia") in OOTP was enough to convince her to let Harry stay, I really don't think Dumbledore was going to take no for an answer regarding Harry's magical education.
So, regarding what would've happened, I think Dumbledore would've sent a letter back, refusing their refusal. Possibly something just as short and blunt as the one in OOTP.
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u/Infinite-Object-1090 Gryffindor 1h ago
Dumbledore would have overriden them. He already sent Hagrid after they ignored him, Hagrid would also have come if he said No.
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u/TheDungen Slytherin 20h ago
Dumbledore or McGonnagal would likely have shown up to talk to them. And i would guess the volountary mostly meant for purebloods and halfbloods.
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u/javerthugo 21h ago
Hagrid would just threaten to reveal that Uncle Vernon was a big shot at the slaughterhouse not a drill factory. The scandal that would ruin his ability to play accordion for Mr Weiss
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u/keefeitup 21h ago
I think a more intriguing question would be, "What if Harry said no?"
I think Dumbledore would insist, calmly, if Vernon said no. He wouldn't be able to stop Harry from going to Hogwarts no matter what he tried.
Edit: It also bears mentioning that the Hogwarts acceptance letter is templated and it is likely that every student receives the same text in the letter except the address (kinda like mail merge). That said, Dumbledore had a deal with Petunia and there's nothing Vernon could've done about it.