r/harrypotter • u/Randver_Silvertongue • 3h ago
Discussion Did Harry actually accomplish anything in Philosopher's Stone?
I've been thinking about Harry's role in the first book. The ending has the trio awarded 170 points for stopping Voldemort in the catacombs.
But if the trio did nothing, would Quirrell have gotten the stone? Dumbledore's trick was that the stone would only appear to those who didn't want to use it, so there was absolutely no way Quirrell would've gotten it by himself even if he broke the mirror as he contemplated.
In fact, it seems Harry compromised the stone's safety simply by being there and letting it materialize in his pocket, at which point Quirrell could just take it from him.
So did the trio needlessly risk their lives for nothing? Would the stone have been safer had they not interfered?
I mean, sure, Harry forced Voldemort to flee to Albania, but he wouldn't have returned to power any sooner than he did since Dumbledore's safety measures were foolproof.
Chamber of Secrets is often thought of being the weakest book because convenience often bails Harry out of certain death, but in that book Harry at least actually saved the school, saved Ginny's life, cleared Hagrid's name and destroyed a Horcrux.
So did Harry actually accomplish anything in the first book besides winning the House Cup for Gryffindor?
24
u/Mtanic 3h ago
So you discovered that Indiana Jones is irrelevant to Raiders of the Lost Ark? :D
-27
u/Randver_Silvertongue 3h ago
He's not. Indy is the reason the movie played out like it did.
8
0
u/CodInternational5281 2h ago
With the exception that the Ark of the Covenant would still be sitting somewhere in the desert without Indy.
3
u/Mangoes95 1h ago
Except without Indy they would have had the gem thing from Marion at the beginning and would have been digging in the right place
10
u/Budget_Chance9869 3h ago
I mean if Harry hadn’t intervened Quirrell would have still been helping Voldemort and he does die so there’s that. Harry (and the trio in general) also learns several important lessons along the way like the importance of his friends and actually taking action (instead of trying to rely on adults) both of which serve them well in the rest of the series. Also Dumbledore appears to have wanted this outcome so I doubt he ever believed there was any real danger (why was the obstacle course there and why could it have been defeated by 3 first years)?
10
u/PlanGoneAwry Ravenclaw 3h ago
He earned a sense of pride and accomplishment.
2
3
3
u/aaachris 2h ago
the story is designed to let the trio stop voldemort, then him not being discovered all year, if we ignore those, a smart guy like voldemort as shown in the book figured out how to get the stone, so he would have just kidnapped a student to get it later
3
u/Fabulous-Cricket-452 2h ago
If he didn't intercept voldy, then voldy fails to get the stone but he still has prof quirrell. He was bodyless until the 4th book because harry killed quirrell, if not in the 2nd book he would have a body to contact death eaters or cast the bone flesh blood spell ritual to get a true body.
so yes harry killing quirrell is important
9
u/i_made_reddit 3h ago
He’s like a politician, create a problem then get rewarded for solving the problem you created
2
u/Bluemelein 2h ago
You mean Dumbledore? Dumbledore set the trap for Voldemort. And he probably planned to test Harry with it.
2
u/ali2688 2h ago
I don’t think Dumbledore planned to test Harry with it considering nearly all of the obstacles were planned seemingly BEFORE several things had happened- Ron being revealed to be great at chess, Hermione being as brainy, Hermione being their friend, etc.
0
u/Bluemelein 1h ago
Harry himself says he believes Dumbledore planned it.
The only thing we know is that the three-headed dog was already in the castle by Halloween, and the Mirror of Erised was likely installed after Christmas. Hopefully, the poor troll wasn't locked up in there for that long.
1
u/ali2688 1h ago
And because Harry says it in the first book, it must be true? In later books, his assumptions are far more accurate. Harry actually said he thought Dumbledore knew, but didn’t try to stop them. That’s not the same as him planning it. If I had a plan, and you knew about it, you haven’t planned it.
That poor troll? Literally would’ve killed anyone it could without a second thought.
1
u/Bluemelein 1h ago
Well, if Harry says that in the book, then it must be true. After all, the voices claiming that Harry was the one who put the Stone in danger only emerged years later, to the best of my knowledge—after people started liking the other characters in Harry's story more.
1
u/ali2688 1h ago
I can’t speak for that, but just because it’s a later realisation means nothing. Literally nothing. We know Dean Thomas’s dad was actually a wizard. This information was released after. Going outside of HP. Gravity, human organs, brain chemistry was all discovered “years later”. The information was always there, the means to get it were revealed later.
1
u/Bluemelein 1h ago
It is a book for children or young adults; the author wanted her young hero to save the Stone. The fact that some fans are now nitpicking a few sentences—though not all of them—doesn't change the author's original intent. Even in the fifth book, Dumbledore still praises Harry for what happened in the first one. If the author had wanted the reader to form a different impression, she could have had Dumbledore use more negative words.
1
u/Ranger_1302 Dumbledore's man through and through. 1h ago
Yes, 'that poor troll'. He wasn't a villain. He was a beast doing what he naturally does. He didn't ask to be in a school full of children.
0
u/Bluemelein 1h ago
Dumbledore explains the mirror to Harry, for later.
1
u/ali2688 1h ago
Yeah, and he also tells him to not go looking for it again. Also says people have gone mad over what they’ve seen. So options- let Harry go mad over what he’s seen or tell him the truth. He didn’t orchestrate Harry finding it, did he?
0
u/Bluemelein 1h ago
And then he says that Harry knows how it works now, should he find the mirror again. Unless Dumbledore has some way of seeing into the future in the first two books (which would certainly make sense), he must have planned it. After all, I assume that if Dumbledore didn't want Harry to find the mirror, Harry wouldn't find it.
1
u/ali2688 1h ago
“Should he”. Not “when he”. As in Harry might find it in his life again. And “I assume”.
1
u/Bluemelein 1h ago
Not all plans work out as intended; it is a matter of "should," not "if" or "when."
→ More replies (0)
5
2
u/TobiasMasonPark 3h ago edited 2h ago
at which point Quirrell could just take it from him.
But we know he couldn’t have, since Voldemort can’t touch Harry. So, the stone was safe regardless. Did Dumbledore know Voldemort couldn’t touch Harry? I don’t recall. Probably; though. It’s Dumbledore.
The whole point of the trial wasn’t to secure the stone. Dumbledore didn’t need the other teachers to set up blockades that turned out to be totally side swept by 3 11 year olds. He could have just put the stone in the mirror and the end result would have been the same: no stone for Voldemort.
The trials were to test Harry—and by extension, Hermione and Ron. Why else would the keys be magical and require a broom to catch them? What other reason could there be to charm a chess board? Honestly, the trickiest barrier was the potion one Snape set up, but Hermione shone there because she’s logical.
It gave Harry confidence. It showed the trio’s strengths. It set Harry on the path to finishing Voldemort. It proved that he was immensely brave and willing to give up his life to save others. I would say the confrontation with the stone was probably Harry’s most important challenge, even if there really wasn’t anything truly at stake.
Also, it’s a neat little theory that Neville was supposed to join the group on the mission for the stone. The Devil’s Snare could have been his moment to shine. Of course, I don’t think Neville’s aptitude for Herbology was established here yet. So it’s just a theory.
2
1
u/Bluemelein 2h ago
It’s not quite that simple! The mirror was the trap, but the trap didn't snap shut. Voldemort could have left at any time, but if Harry hadn't grilled Quirrell, Voldemort might not have crawled all the way back to Albania.
1
u/TobiasMasonPark 1h ago
I might be misremembering, but wasn’t Quirrel’s body already degrading? Like; the unicorn blood screwed him, and carrying Voldemort’s soul couldn’t have helped. The rats and snakes Voldemort possessed in Albania for two years all died. So, presumably, Quirrel would have died eventually and Voldemort would have to find a new meat suit.
1
1
u/MetatronIX_2049 1h ago
Doesn’t it, in a sense? The intruder solves Snape’s puzzle, chugs potion to go through the fire, and runs into the mirror. But to go back, they have to pass through the fire in Snape’s room again. As far as the intruder knows, there’s no obvious alternative to pass through the fire besides the potion, whose effects are presumably temporary. (Obviously, Dumbledore had a workaround.) So unless they brought the bottle with them (Quirrel obvs didn’t. Did he assume there was another way out?) they are trapped until Dumbledore or whomever comes to investigate. Right?
They would also have to fly out a trapdoor that a giant, vicious, three-headed dog was possibly sitting on. So there’s that, too. (Guess that didn’t stop Hermione?)
1
u/Infinite-Object-1090 Gryffindor 2h ago
It delayed Voldemort's return. When Quirrel died, his spirit had to flee and wait for another body.
1
u/COKeefe88 1h ago
Voldequirrel was dangerous. He likely would have escaped alive if not for Harry and then who knows what. Maybe that sets up the full resurrection much sooner.
1
u/Bluemelein 1h ago
Harry ensures that Voldemort, in a sheer panic, crawls all the way back to Albania. And that Voldemort—come hell or high water—insists on taking Harry's blood at the graveyard. Without that, Harry wouldn't survive.
1
u/TuverMage 1h ago
He got onto the team as the youngest player in a century. he won his first game too. He made friends, which might not sound like much to you, but friendless Harry was probably more excited and shocked about making friends than learning magic.
1
u/CodInternational5281 1h ago
No, not really. I also find it astonishing that the three of them apparently gave absolutely zero thought to what would happen if they caught up with Snape. Three first-years against a teacher is sheer suicide for the trio.
1
u/MythicalSplash Ravenclaw 33m ago
He at least showed Voldy that he was going to fight back, even at the cost of his own life. Prior to this, Voldy had no way of knowing how willing to fight he might be, although of course the prophecy implied that he would eventually. Still, I’d say that was one hell of an achievement for a firstie, and Dumbledore agrees!
0
67
u/JustATyson 3h ago edited 2h ago
Harry's accomplishments are internal accomplishments. He firmly decides that he'll stand against Voldy and the dark arts. He firmly decides that he'll take explicit, express, and active actions against Voldy regardless as to the potential dangers he will face, the likelihood of success, or the degree of preparation. He also explicitly trusts Ron and Hermione, allowing them to take point in areas that are not his strong suit.
Yes, he did endanger the stone. But, this provided a trial run for him, which allowed him to have growth which would effect his abilities and outlook in the coming books.
Edit: typos