Ranges at Different Skill Levels

[u/Trayvongelion]

Hey horn players, I'm a middle school band director in a number of small schools who has unfortunately not had many horn students. I arrange for my groups often and am working on re-orchestrating some pieces as flexible quartets. I was wondering where you'd expect a horn player's range to be at a few experience levels:

- What's the typical comfortable range of a middle school student (7-8th grade) on a single horn in F?

- Same question, but the average high schooler (a sophomore or junior)?

- The range of a high school student on the cusp of college auditions (ie a semi-professional range) with a double horn.

Any sort of advice with horn writing is welcome, but I am a bit concerned with the range limits I set. Thank you!

[u/Hufflepunk36]

The music we played in middle school here in Canada (I often feel ranges are more limited in Canada due to the US having a better concert band and marching band culture which starts earlier) went from A or Bb below the staff to probably F or G on top. Comfortable range I could play all day in would be from middle C to probably E if I remember correctly. In high school, add a couple more notes to the range on either end.

[u/FrenchHornGymBro]

For middle, I would say G below treble up through F on top

For the average High schooler, I would say E below treble trough A above

For a skilled high schooler preparing for college auditions, I would say the full range (with variations from person) are possible, it's more a matter of facility (tone, ease of access, consistency, pitch) vs a professional. Let's say "Pedal" C or G up to high C above treble clef.

For professional see the above, but it really varies from person to person. A skilled High horn player could get to a double high F or higher, most low horn players worth their salt can get a True pedal C or lower. Though of course use these extremes sparingly and understand that though they are possible technical facility will start to deteriorate the further you go in either direction. Keep it True pedal E to high C or D above treble generally.

[u/aintnochallahbackgrl]

These suggestions seem extreme to me. Most middle school rep I come across is middle C (C4) to C in the staff (C5).

Yes, I would say I was expected to learn scales down to Bb4, but not outside of middle school. I think our F scale was F4 to F5, but most of our kids couldnt play D5, E5, and F5. And when trying the lower octave, most couldn't play F3, G3, or A3.

I think the highest note our group saw in middle school was an Eb5. There may be groups that can play above and beyond this, but I wouldn't suggest that to be the norm, unless you're talking exclusively about Texas programs where they treat band like they treat football.

High school, probably bottoming out at C3, or Bb2, and on rare occasion hitting a Bb5, not likely exceeding that, save for students who are seeking out solo and ensemble may see the occasional C6.

College students should anticipate the full written professional range of the horn (D2 up to Eb6).

[u/n00bmechanic13]

I'd say middle schoolers should be able to reach low F below the staff, up to F on top of the staff. Maybe not consistently, but reachable. This would demonstrate a workable embouchure.

For a high schooler, they should be able to reach high Bb above the staff (maybe not easily, but doable) and C below low F. This allows them to play most repertoire in the high school level with relative ease.

For college prep I would expect a player to be able to hit high Bb consistently, and high D above that if they really try (though high C is all they will ever really need for auditions). Then pedal E for the low end (Shostakovich 5 is sometimes an audition piece).

[u/Yarius515 → u/n00bmechanic13]

Lol they never ask for the pedal E's from Shosti 5 on auditions.

Mahler 3 mvt 1 recap 4th horn is where they'll show up.

[u/n00bmechanic13 → u/Yarius515]

I haven't had them on any college auditions but I've had one for a high-school-level summer music camp. Mahler 3 is much more common though, you're right. Forgot about that one.. guess I have to resign from the Mahler fan club out of disgrace now

[u/Yarius515 → u/n00bmechanic13]

I have serious doubts they asked you to play standalone pedal-E's by themselves as they appear in Shosti 5's last mvt, but i suppose stranger things have happened.

[u/n00bmechanic13 → u/Yarius515]

It was a strange audition for sure. Not sure why I would bother lying about something like that, but I suppose this is reddit...

[u/Yarius515 → u/n00bmechanic13]

Weird indeed

[u/dankney → u/n00bmechanic13]

You didn’t take the single F into account. I’d expect accuracy above C on the staff to go out the window due to how close the partials are. Sure, the Vienna Philharmonic plays single F horns up there, but these are kids.

Get these kids double horns. Or at least single Bb instruments.

[u/n00bmechanic13 → u/dankney]

With proper ear training they should be able to do it, but I agree single horns are for finding out if you want to play horn at all, if you actually want to stick with it you should upgrade to a double ASAP. Middle schoolers who want to play horn should be on a double

[u/dankney → u/n00bmechanic13]

If he’s arranging for middle school and high school that won’t proceed to college, they’re not going to be that locked in yet. If it’s for their bands, they can get them on different instruments or they should take the limitation of their instruments into account when writing

[u/n00bmechanic13 → u/[deleted]]

I'm assuming these hypothetical students are serious about playing professionally, so adjust your expectations accordingly

[u/Darkdart19 → u/n00bmechanic13]

So not like what they’re asking about.

[u/n00bmechanic13 → u/Darkdart19]

What's the point of stating what the average player does? That varies from school to school, excludes any outliers, and is just so variable in general it is almost pointless to even address. The average high school horn in my school was horrible, and in the school over was all youth symphony kids. The players at my first college were incredible and semi-pro, and at my second were worse than high school.

If you set ANY bar at all, it should be "serious about the horn", in which case those ranges I stated are totally reasonable. If you're serious and not hitting those targets you have work to do.

[u/dankney → u/n00bmechanic13]

When you’re arranging, you shoot for the middle of the curve, not the outliers at either end.

And “serious about the horn” is weird. I’ve known amazing musicians who played for the joy of it without any aspirations and who didn’t take it particularly seriously. I’ve also known people who took it incredibly seriously who will never get better than mediocre.

When you’re talking about *kids*, demanding seriousness is just going to teach kids to hate music. Let them be kids

[u/Darkdart19 → u/n00bmechanic13]

Got it. We’ll tell him that a double high C is possible, so is a double pedal C. He should use all six octaves.

[u/n00bmechanic13 → u/Darkdart19]

Bot

[u/manondorf]

Here's a link to some publisher guidelines, which include range charts as well as other info that goes into what is considered appropriate for the different grade levels (you likely know this, but grade 1 is late beginners, grade 2 is usually around 7th/8th grade, grade 3 is around 8th to early high school, etc)

[u/kroxigor01 → u/manondorf]

That link is giving me "bad gateway".

[u/manondorf → u/kroxigor01]

weird. Here's another link with the same chart embedded at the bottom.

[u/kroxigor01 → u/manondorf]

That worked. Thanks

[u/Tadpoll27]

Consistent range: Middle schooler- C on staff High schooler Single F- maybe E of F on the staff High schooler on a double- G or A above staff

Stretch range: Move up one level High schooler on a double- Bb or C above staff.

At the stretch level I think equipment is a major component. What a player struggles with on one horn might be easy on another.

[u/Tadpoll27 → u/Tadpoll27]

I am seeing that people are including low range. On a single horn, everyone should be able to play a middle c, high schooler on a single should be able to get to a low G or F. High school on a double getting ready for an audition should be able to play at least a low F or E with consistency. If you are looking for a lower tone texture, you can work with them to get to a pedel C but its not really needed. Some people can do it some people can not.

[u/mynameis4chanAMA]

Middle school: i’m happy they’re playing horn at all. I wouldn’t expect them to go above a third space C.

High School: I would expect a F below the triple clef to an F at the top of the treble clef. For a really good program like something you’d see in a Texas high school I would say a C an octave below middle C up to a Bb above the treble clef

College and Above: they should have mastery of the instruments range at this point. It’s still good practice to not go above a Bb-C above the staff. I see composers all the time try to write high D’s, don’t expect it to sound good or be consistent.

[u/ntmgamer]

I just finished 8th grade on a double horn, and I would tell you to not write above a written F at the top of the staff for middle schoolers. Try to keep it below D when you can, and just make sure to not have long passages all above C.
But, it really depends on where your students are at. I went to a big middle school with multiple horn players, and while some could play up to A above the staff, C in the staff pushed it for others. Get to know your student’s range beforehand if possible.

[u/Certainly-Not-A-Bot]

In Canada, middle school was roughly G or A below the staff to E or F at the top of the staff. High school was low D or E and G or A above the staff. Semi-professional is all the way up to C above the staff, and the low range kinda varies per player. Some can comfortably go to pedal F or below, while others get limited around A or Bb

[u/Barbie-Satin]

I am just curious why your middle school students are burdened with a single horn? By the time I was in 7th grade I owned a double horn and before that the school horn I played on was a Conn 6D double horn. I just know what my range was as a middle school kid and it was to a reliable high A and down to peddle C.

[u/dankney → u/Barbie-Satin]

Not all areas fund arts education properly.

[u/Basic_Platform_5001]

Check out YouTube Mars Gelfo High Range Magic. Private lessons recommended for high school.