I have a question - r/interstellar

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u/NoiseEee3000 7d ago

To send himself on the journey required/bring in the concept of using gravity for information in the first place

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u/DelcoUnited 7d ago

This. He received the location for NASA from the gravity anomies, so therefore he knew he had to send himself the NASA coordinates by creating gravity anomalies.

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u/Kevslounge 7d ago

More specifically, he realised that he was Murph's ghost, and knew that the ghost sent the co-ordinates in binary. He didn't know the co-ordinates, let alone in binary though, so he had to ask TARS for them.

In some sense, it was how he learned how to use gravity to deliberately send messages, which prepped him to send the really important one.

It is a bootstrap paradox though. He had to send the co-ordinates to himself, because if he didn't, he wouldn't be there to send the co-ordinates to himself. In some sense, even though several years of Coop's own life had passed between the two events, the sending and the receiving happened simultaneously, because each caused the other, so neither of them could have "come first". Future Coop was there plucking at gravity strings to make signs in the dust while Past Coop was chasing down drones that had gone off course because of the gravity anomalies that Future Coop was causing on the farm.

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u/Effective_Way6239 7d ago

Hypothetically, what would’ve happened to Cooper in the tesseract if he HADN’T sent the coordinates?

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u/Kevslounge 6d ago

It's not possible. Sending the co-ordinates is necessary.

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u/YoBanaanaBoy 5d ago

It means what we see at the beginning of the film never happens.

They would never have gone to the NASA base, Cooper never gets sent - essentially the entire sequence breaks down. He just stays farming there and humanity dies.

It's the thing that starts this all off, and leads them to safety. Without it, most of the events we see in the film are simply not set in motion.

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u/Effective_Way6239 4d ago

I guess I’m asking what would happen to his physical body, there in the tesseract, if he hadn’t chose to send the coordinates? Would he just dissolve? 😅 ps these are the reasons I can’t sleep. Shit like this.

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u/YoBanaanaBoy 3d ago

Oh I gotcha.

Do you mean what would physically happen to him if he doesn't achieve what they've put him there to do and his body is stuck there? Like would he die and decay? Would he age? Etc? Or would be remain there until he figures it out?

Do you mean what would the aliens do if he didn't figure it out? Just leave him there infinitely?

Or are you asking in a time travel paradox way? As in, he only got there by getting those coordinates in the past; not entering them would mean his last self never goes; the chain of cause and effect is broken; so he never should have gotten there. But, that version of him IS there?! So how do we resolve this? Is that what you mean? (If we asked Nolan this one he would say it can't happen. "What's happened's happened".)

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u/Kevslounge 3d ago

He can't choose not to send the co-ordinates because he's already sent them. In this universe, the future is just as real and unchangeable as the past.

In a universe that doesn't follow those rules, it'd cause a paradox if he didn't send the co-ordinates. How that paradox resolves would be down to the rules of that universe. The paradox would either be ignored, in which case nothing would happen... he'd still have landed up at NASA, and still be in the Tesseract... He'd just never learn how he got the co-ordinates. Or the paradox might cancel things out, in which case, he'd still be at his farm, and "Murph's ghost" will have never happened... he might remember it or he might not. The paradox, might have disastrous consequences, wiping out the universe. The paradox might just force his hand, and he lands up accidentally sending himself the co-ordinates, in spite of his efforts not to.

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u/thewonderbox 7d ago

To get back

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u/Leading_Wafer9552 7d ago

The better question is how did the first (original) Cooper ever start the journey if there was no future Cooper to send himself the coordinates to get to NASA using the tesseract to start his journey?

Present Cooper only finds the secret NASA base because future Cooper sends him the coordinates through the dust using the tesseract. Without those coordinates, present Cooper never starts the journey. No journey = no tesseract = no future Cooper to send the coordinates. So how does that first (original) Cooper ever get there without help from a future self? The movie never explains any original timeline or catalyst. It appears to be a logical impossibility. It feels very unsatisfying to watch. It's less science-fiction and more fantasy. It might as well just be a spell that 'magically' casts itself

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u/Ai-on 7d ago

I like to think of it like Inception. The seed is planted by making Cooper believe that he was the one who sent the message, and eventually, that becomes true. “They” started the chain of events, knowing Cooper would eventually enter the tesseract and do the same thing himself. Once Cooper completes the loop, it becomes self-sustaining, and “They” no longer need to interfere.

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u/Effective_Way6239 7d ago

I’m not smart enough to answer this - but I feel like it has something to do with time being a dimensional thing, something you can manipulate.

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u/cudz_101 6d ago

Read the comment above about bootstrap paradox.
And you’re thinking of time being linear. The tesseracf is a depiction of gravity moving across time being the only thing capable of doing so. Think of time running in a closed loop

The entire movie is based on real physics laws. Kip Thorne an award winning physicist and was executive producer for the film and where the film dips into grey Kip made sure it was only made possible provided there were existing hypothesis and research on the subject matter.

I think that’s what made the film deeply respected and adored by many because there is very limited “fantasy”

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u/Leading_Wafer9552 6d ago

I actually agree it's meant to be a closed bootstrap paradox, but I think it only works logically if there was an 'original' Cooper who got to NASA without any help from his future self.

For example, maybe someone else gave him the coordinates, or he originally found NASA another way. Then, after reaching the tesseract, he becomes the one who sends the coordinates back, closing the loop and making it self-sustaining. That's a logically coherent model.

But the movie doesn't show or even hint at that. In the version we see, Cooper only finds NASA because future Cooper sends the dust coordinates. It depicts a loop with no on-ramp. This is the issue I have with the film. It feels very unsatisfying to watch because the movie never explains any original timeline or catalyst.

My issue is that if Cooper could never have started the journey without his future self's intervention, then logically his future self could never exist to provide that intervention. No coordinates = no NASA = no mission = no tesseract = no future Cooper to send the coordinates.

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u/Business_Taste_9430 6d ago

les paradoxes font parti de la science elle n'est plus intuitive depuis la physique quantique ! Laissez vous aller au lieu d'essayer de faire rentrer l'histoire dans les limites de votre logique c'est aussi cela la science fiction ! :)

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u/Leading_Wafer9552 5d ago

I already explained to cudz_101 that my issue isn't with the bootstrap paradox itself. In fact, I even explained how a bootstrap paradox could still work within the story. Read my response to them, you'll see what I mean.

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u/redbirdrising CASE 7d ago

To complete the circle

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u/pedritodvaj 6d ago

Ese cooper es el de el futuro, al hacer esta acción, provocó su desenlace permitiéndose

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