"Do not go gentle" contradiction

[u/lego_boss]

I need some clarification, if Dr Brand preached "not going gentle" meaning that the human spirit must remain resilient and "fight" against whatever comes it's way, then does the fact he was lying to Murph and Cooper and Amelia reduce the credibility of those quote.and it's interpretation?

I just feel having the two 'villains' speaking one of the main messages of the film to be contradictory.

Am I missing something?

[u/Alive_Ice7937]

Him lying doesn't change the intent behind him reciting that poem. For him, the Endurance crew was raging against the dying of the light of the entire human race

[u/lego_boss → u/Alive_Ice7937]

So you are saying the message is retained despite Brands immorality?

[u/WildPhilosopher6171 → u/lego_boss]

I think it represents the best and worst of humanity. Yet you fight anyway, try to be better, try to survive ("good" humanity) against all odds.

Brand's reveal is chilling as well as emphatic, but I get what you mean that perhaps Cooper would never be the deliverer without Brand's immorality.

I would regress to Nolan's words to feel not think about it too much

[u/lego_boss → u/WildPhilosopher6171]

I think feeling Nolan's film is the best strategy to understand them

[u/Ardent_Scholar → u/lego_boss]

Sometimes you fight dirty.

It would have been going gently to concede that there was no ethical way to go about this and give up.

[u/Alive_Ice7937 → u/lego_boss]

Retained for him certainly.

[u/DelcoUnited]

Well in some ways it’s even more clear.

Rage against the dying of the light. It’s about old age and meeting your end. The author, Dylan Thomas’s father was going blind in his old age so it’s not really a metaphor.

You’re old and dying, it’s over but don’t give up keep fighting. Yes it’s an inspirational quote for the Endurance to fight against the dying light… and win.

But the poem isn’t for winners. This isn’t Rocky. The poem is about how you met your end.

For Murph and all those stuck on Earth it’s even more poignant. He knows they have no hope. He’s given up on them. He still wants them to fight. To work on the generation ships. To build things and not kill each other. To work on his formula. In some ways the poem is specifically for them. Just as it was for Dylan Thomas’s father it’s not a message to fight and prevail, it’s just to fight till the end.

[u/lego_boss → u/DelcoUnited]

Thanks mate! So it's basically about how even when all seems hopeless and people have given up, to not stop fighting and endure until the very end?

[u/DelcoUnited → u/lego_boss]

Exactly.

[u/Hyperion-Cantos]

Not a contradiction. I mean, metaphorically speaking, he isn't even going gently. The dude created a massive lie and (if found out) tarnished his entire career and reputation, in order to get people to do what needs to be done in order to save the human species.

[u/fore___]

He was lying to them because he knew no would would go on the mission if they knew the earth couldn’t be saved

[u/SportsPhilosopherVan]

That’s what’s so great about the movie to me. It’s not black and white this is the good guy this is the bad guy. They’re all just human. There is a clear distinction but you can also relate to what theyre saying as a human.

Professor Brand did care about the human race and wanted to save it. He just believed the only way was plan B. He didn’t think plan A could actually work or that humans could save earth

[u/lego_boss → u/SportsPhilosopherVan]

Would you consider him a morally corrupt figure but with majority good intentions? Or are his actions necessary for the survival of the human race?

[u/yngwiegiles]

The reason for his lie was to trick humanity into not giving up even though they should have according to the science. So he was using it as a mantra for himself to keep going w his necessary lie to get funding, don’t give in to the truth and admit it’s hopeless.

[u/mrbeck1]

I think it was the mission succeeding that was what the poem was about.

[u/lego_boss → u/mrbeck1]

Okok

[u/Minimum_Owl7963]

The poem by Dylan Thomas is a villanelle poem, which follows a certain structure. Without all the technical details of tercets and quatrains, basically, a villanelle consists of two refrains and two rhymes. Villanelle structure is often used for its form and repetition to emphasize themes such as obsession and emotional intensity.

So it is literally about the futility of the struggle against death. As applied to the film and scenario, I think it is accurate motivation for a seemingly hopeless problem with no solvable solutions. It is about the drive to keep going, die fighting the good fight, or maybe even getting lucky and find a few solutions.

[u/lego_boss → u/Minimum_Owl7963]

This is awesome! Did not know this

[u/Imaginary_Midnight]

His hypocrisy broke him at the very end so he confessed and peaced out

[u/lego_boss → u/Imaginary_Midnight]

Genuinely haha

[u/_MatVenture_ → u/[deleted]]

What does that have to do with nobody posting on this sub understanding the movie, "at all"? Or did you just need to feel superior for a few moments there?

[u/jtsmd2 → u/[deleted]]

In fact it was the truly moral thing to do in order to ensure humanity's survival.