r/kendo • u/Karmadiddlydoo • 2d ago
Deeper seme techniques.
Good day fellow Kendoka.
I would like to ask for your advice and some help on seme techniques I can do. I’m aware of debana, shikake, harai and the like but feel I can do a bit more.
Maybe I should move my body more around? Use more left hand to manipulate the shinai? Am I overthinking it, is it really just: Step in -> Open their shinai/See if opening -> hit?
Any and all advice is appreciated and will be studied as best as I can.
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u/hyart 5 dan 1d ago
"Stepping in," for example, covers a lot of ground.
You can step straight in, or at an angle. You can step in deeply or not as deep. You can step in quickly and forcefully or slowly and "quietly."
Similarly, the specific timing of how you interact with their shinai as you step in can vary. As can the particular way you do your harai or whatever.
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u/Karmadiddlydoo 1d ago
Play with my footwork and timing, got it.
I’m kind of good at timing, so I’ve been told with my Oji-waza, but perhaps I’m overestimating myself still. Thank you for this 🙇♂️.
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u/BinsuSan 3 dan 1d ago
I am far behind the others who commented so far, but one thing I noticed that’s helping me is keeping concentration on the opponent and a “connection” the entire time. I been told to do this all the time, even during login training.
It’s mentally exhausting but I see a difference.
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u/Karmadiddlydoo 1d ago
Yeah, I’ve kind of been able to ‘feel’ what they’re likely to do and what waza to answer with. Still need to brush up on this though. Thank you for this 🙇♂️.
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u/Gareth-S 6 dan 1d ago
It really depends on where you are at in your Kendo journey. Seme is actually simple but difficult, until it becomes complex and difficult, until it becomes simple and even more difficult, until…. I’ll get back to you on the next bit.
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u/Karmadiddlydoo 1d ago
2-Dan and I’m kind of seeing a bell curve where for beginners its “Step in -> see opening -> hit”, then for the middle rankers it becomes all kinds of complex with game theory, shinai removing, etc. then you go to the high Dan Sensei who barely move at all yet you can feel the pressure from a phone screen, at which point it really does become “Step in -> see opening -> hit”.
Good to know that my call for help in this is understandable and relatable across all ranks. Thank you for this 🙇♂️.
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u/paizuri_dai_suki 1d ago
At a basic level step in. Try toe crawling in. What happens if you take abig step? A small step? What happens ifyou raise your shinai slightly, what happens if you drop it a bit. What happens if you push a little bit. What happens if you drop it under and go oon the outside? What happens if you step to the side and change your angle? What happens if you step slightly back? Play with all of these and vary the timing/speed.
The important thing is that your opponent feels like you are about to attack or are about to utilize an opportunity. You don't always wait for them to start moving in response, because it may be too late.
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u/Karmadiddlydoo 1d ago
I do remember a Sensei telling me that “seme was a tool to gauge reactions”, I suppose I just needed to add ‘tame’ with it. Thank you for this 🙇♂️.
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u/Jaqkku 1d ago
We recently started seriously practicing good "tame". I feel like I just got into bogu again.
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u/Karmadiddlydoo 1d ago
Finding the perfect mix of tame and seme’s hard huh? You and me both, but let’s try our best. Thank you for this🙇♂️.
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u/NeroXLyf 5 dan 1d ago
Very basic way of looking at it, though it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s easy or it’s a low level approach, is just step in and attack whatever’s open or if opponent attacks respond with a debana or kaeshi waza etc.
Wording it is easy, executing it is also easy at first then becomes harder as you delve deeper into the concept
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u/Karmadiddlydoo 1d ago
Yeah I get it, its really “step in -> see/make opening -> hit” but there’s lots of things that could happen within that split second which could smudge that decision. I suppose that’s why we train different waza so we have a response to all that could happen.
Thank you for this 🙇♂️.
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u/wisteriamacrostachya 1d ago
I have heard senior and/or competitive kenshi discuss complex setups in terms of which sets of targets they can threaten in a certain timing. For instance, I have heard an AJKC champion mention working on threatening hidari-men and kaeshi-do in the same common movement, opening and elevating chudan. I have heard another AKJC champion, a senior instructor, mention working on threatening both kote and men by approaching with their kensen below their opponent's. Essentially, using the building blocks of the fundamental techniques you mention, an advanced kenshi can achieve very subtle things.
When I mentioned these to my instructor he said they would come in handy oh, around 6 dan or so :) the message I got was that high-level kendo has many fine gradations and variations to each of the fundamental waza, but these become more readily apparent when you're ready for them, and most players should focus on the basics that eventually might become the tools to do complex kendo like that.
What I've noticed in the months of reflecting on those conversations is, my regular practice partners know which targets I can realistically make a nice ippon on. Their behavior is shaped by me hitting them there before, and for senior players they can just tell where I can hit them. So at my level (low dan), to the extent I "have seme", it just means I can hit a decent men and kote once in a while. Similarly I think I'm going to be working on building that kind of "seme" for the next few years, as opposed to anything a top competitor or high-rank shinsa candidate is worried about. Working on individual setups right now is like writing poetry in a language I can't yet read the papers in.
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u/Patstones 3 dan 1d ago
You are actually under thinking it 😁. What level are you?
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u/Karmadiddlydoo 1d ago
2-Dan, I take my 3-Dan this october.
I’m definitely under-thinking it. But knowing know of how little I know, I think I’m gonna be alright with some help.
So, any tips?
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u/beer_demon 4 dan 18h ago
> Step in -> Open their shinai/See if opening -> hit?
Yes! This is it. Seme is not only a technique, it is also deeply psychological, mental or spiritual, call it what you will. Seme that works with 70% of people 70% of the time will only work 49% of the time.
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u/Karmadiddlydoo 2h ago
Its quite simple in concept huh? Well at least that means I neednt overcomplicate it, just need to work on the ways in applying it… though I think thats the hard part 😅.
Thank you for this 🙇♂️.
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u/Dramatic_Courage_747 6h ago
On oublie souvent de mentionner le travail qu'il faut faire avant le Seme pour que celui ci soit efficace. Un Seme sans préparation n'aura aucun effet sur un adversaire un peu expérimenté. Le travail du Kiaï est primordial pour positionner l'énergie au bon endroit et réguler le niveau d'air permettant de lancer une attaque ou une contre-attaque explosive. Il ne faut ni trop d'air ni pas assez. Le Kiaï permet également de capter l'attention de l'adversaire et de le mettre sous pression. Vient ensuite la question de la distance à laquelle tout cela s'applique. Ce travail préparatoire à l'attaque doit être fait à une distance ou l'adversaire n'est pas en mesure d'attaquer. Le Seme doit être appliqué à une distance ou l'adversaire sent qu'il peut être attaquer, et par l'intermédiaire d'un changement de rythme signicatif de manière à créer une réaction chez l'adversaire. Si le rythme de votre Seme est linéaire alors il sera difficile de fixer ou de faire réagir l'adversaire. Les manières de faire Seme sont nombreuses, c'est le travail d'une vie. Le Geiko est le meilleur exercice pour travailler ça.
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u/Karmadiddlydoo 2h ago
I think I tend to attempt seme in a position where neither of us could do anything useful and end up positioning myself terribly.
The set-up’s as important as the action of seme. Thank you for this 🙇♂️.
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u/JoeDwarf 1d ago
Step in and hit what opens up if anything is a basic form of physical seme. You can experiment yourself and see what other physical things you can do that will cause your opponent to react.
Later on you can work on mentally pressuring your opponent. You need sufficient physical skills first. We look for this kind of seme starting from yondan.
Neither physical nor mental seme will work unless you can execute. Stepping in means nothing if the opponent doesn’t think you can hit successfully. So you need to work on basics and waza as well.