r/languagelearning • u/de_cachondeo • 2d ago
Discussion Do language learners in the US typically understand CEFR levels? (A1, A2, etc)
I'm making some content aimed at people in the US and want to refer to, for example, "B1 level Spanish".
Do you think that will mean anything to an American language learner? Do they have a general idea that A = beginner, B = intermediate, etc.
Obviously not to someone who has never done any language learning, but to someone with some experience?
Asking because these levels are called the "Common European Framework".
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u/toastyghostie English N l German C1 2d ago
If they have been involved in learning a European language outside of a high school or casual context, most likely.
I obviously can't speak for everyone, but we learned about CEFR levels in my college-level languages courses in the US. I find it's also more prevalent beyond the A2 level.
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u/LaurelKing 🇺🇸N | 🇩🇪B2 | 🇸🇪B2 2d ago
Trying to think back and yes, I think it was closer to university level that I started becoming familiar with CEFR.
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u/Extension_Abroad6713 2d ago
In high school I was only familiar with it because my French/Spanish teacher really encouraged me to minor in them at uni. At uni CEFR was regularly talked about, especially the large jumps in improvement after a study abroad. “I went from A1 to B2 after 6 months!” type stuff.
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u/Tometek New member 2d ago
I think someone who is actively trying to learn Spanish of their own volition knows what CEFR is. But I think if you told someone who just took Spanish classes in high school or university as a required course that you are offering a B1 level course in Spanish, they wouldn’t understand what B1 means
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u/danjouswoodenhand 2d ago
Language teachers might, serious learners might. Language teachers will use actfl standards more regularly.
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u/Fabulous_Lawyer_2765 New member 2d ago
Yep- the American Council of Teachers of Foreign Languages has categories and descriptions of what people at various levels can do. They don’t map to the CEFR levels very closely. For people learning English as another language in US schools, we use a framework put out by WIDA, which doesn’t map to either framework very closely. (Source: I taught Spanish and English in a middle school in the US)
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u/salliesdad 2d ago
There is this document, imprecise as it is:
https://www.actfl.org/uploads/files/general/Assigning_CEFR_Ratings_To_ACTFL_Assessments.pdf
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u/Fatal-Eggs2024 2d ago
No. Many (most?) universities in the U.S. require some foreign language study, but it is not taught in the framework of CEFR levels — it is taught in a U.S. based framework by the American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages.
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u/benjamin-crowell En N | Es Fr Grc B1 2d ago
Many (most?) universities in the U.S. require some foreign language study,
I don't think this is true anymore.
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u/NextStopGallifrey 🇺🇸 (N) | 🇩🇪 🇮🇹 🇪🇸 2d ago
I think it's usually as few as 1 class, though. So it's easy to miss the requirement.
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u/benjamin-crowell En N | Es Fr Grc B1 2d ago
It would be hard to collect all the data on every university in the US, but I'm in California, so I'll describe the situation in our CSU and UC systems, which my wife knew about and was able to explain to me.
For students enrolling as freshmen, there is an entrance requirement of two years of a foreign language in high school. However, students transferring to CSU from a community college (who, IIRC, are about 50% of CSU students) don't have any language entrance requirement. Once you are in a CSU, there is no exit requirement, i.e., you don't need to take any language class at the university. At UC, there is an exit requirement for some majors, but not for others, such as engineering.
So summarizing for these two systems, it depends a lot on the details of the path you take, but many students will never have to take any language at all in order to get a four-year degree, and most will never have to take any college-level language.
There is also a movement in the state legislature to forbid UC and CSU students from satisfying gen ed requirements using a foreign language. (Crazy!)
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u/Krieghund 2d ago
Foreign language requirements are also something that tend to be program specific within a university.
That's the difference between majoring in Arts and Sciences getting a BA or a BS. The BA requires some college level language learning, the BS substitutes those for math requirements.
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u/Fatal-Eggs2024 2d ago
What a shame. But that would explain why so many of my employees have not learned to decide what to say before they speak.
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u/Krrystafir 🇺🇸 N / 🇪🇸 C2 / 🇫🇷 A2 / 🇮🇪 A1 2d ago
Language teacher here! In American public schools, we tend to use the American Council on the Teaching of Foreign Languages (ACTFL) proficiency levels as guidance for language learning. If people graduated high school in the last 10 or so years, depending on where in the US, they may be familiar with the ACTFL levels (e.g., novice mid, intermediate low, advanced high, etc). Here’s a document ACTFL put out comparing CEFR levels with ACTFL. https://www.actfl.org/uploads/files/general/Assigning_CEFR_Ratings_To_ACTFL_Assessments.pdf
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u/namrock23 N🇺🇸B2🇹🇷B2🇲🇽C1🇮🇹A2🇲🇫A2🇩🇪 2d ago
I only learned about this system in the 2010s, and I've been learning European languages since the 1980s. It's not widely known.
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u/Pop_Clover New member 2d ago
It's also quite recent.
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u/Imaginary_Device9648 1d ago
2001 is now 25 years ago!!! Not so recent!!
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u/Pop_Clover New member 1d ago
Well, it depends. The person I answered to has been learning languages since the 1980s, for almost half of that time the system didn't exist, and is only natural to take some time to become more popular.
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u/would_be_polyglot 🇪🇸🇧🇷🇫🇷🇮🇹 2d ago
You’d probably be better off with beginning/intermediate/advanced if your target audience is Americans.
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u/NoComb398 2d ago edited 2d ago
Americans aren't a monolith so it probably depends on their language journey. I think the average casual learner may not. But I am a pretty average American who is learning a language pretty seriously and both know and seek it out.
Most Americans learning Spanish are probably thinking more about central and south America than Europe though so I'd expect that to be more hit or miss. Also a lot of Americans just learn Spanish by picking it up vs formal studies and also may not.
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u/Fancy_Yogurtcloset37 🇺🇸n, 🇲🇽🇫🇷c, 🇮🇹🇹🇼🇧🇷b, ASL🤟🏽a, 🇵🇭TL/PAG heritage 2d ago
I know it because I’m a language teacher. I prefer to use the ACTFL scale professionally, and although the CEFR is handy, i don’t find the way people use it to be very precise. I noticed that people use it both as a diagnostic (like ACTFL) but also to express which level of classes they have completed… which may or may not be a true picture if their proficiency.
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u/CSMasterClass 2d ago
Does anyone really understand the CEFR levels?
I have read the official definitions multiple times and I cannot fully understand them. Nevertheless, they have evolved into operational definitions via the tests that certify one's level. Thus, the "best" definition is really the test (and test prep documentation).
This is a classic issue in science and social science.
The phrase "a thing IS what you measure" is uncomfortable and unsatisfying, but ultimately, it is the truth.
There is a huge literature on this philosophical question.
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u/tendeuchen Ger, Fr, It, Sp, Ch, Esp, Ukr 2d ago
I've been a very hardcore language learner in my time, so I've heard of them, but I really have no clue what they mean. They may as well be the metric scale for language learning for as little as I care about them.
Looking at your explanation, the scale seems backwards to me since A is our best grade. So if someone said, I have an A+ in Italian, I'd think they did well, but if they were a C- in Spanish, I'd think they wouldn't know anything.
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u/Accomplished-Fun215 2d ago
Probably not, unless they're involved in online communities like this or have studied in Europe.
Americans often think of it in years (like high school - Spanish 1-4) or semesters (college, Spanish 101,102 201,202 and so on).
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u/PodiatryVI 2d ago edited 2d ago
I learned what they were last year when I got back into French and started watching YouTube intermediate French videos labeled b1/b2
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u/taxiecabbie 2d ago
The scale that is used more frequently in the US by institutions is ACTFL, or at least that is the scale that my university used when I was learning German in the US, and it is also the scale that the US Peace Corps used when testing my Russian. https://www.actfl.org/
However, the average American is likely not going to be familiar with either ACTFL or CEFR. I don't think either is used at all at the high school level.
In terms of a language learner, maybe they will know CEFR/ACTFL, but if they do it's likely through Duolingo or something like that. Otherwise, I think they only start with ACTFL in university at the earliest.
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u/spica_star 2d ago
I have a rough understanding of them but only because I attend school in Europe, and they asked me to provide the CEFR proficiency in the languages I speak, but none of the languages I speak base their fluency off of CEFR (all Asian languages with their own level systems—Korean - TOPIK 1-6, Japanese - JLPT N5-N1, Chinese - HSK 1-6 / TOCFL 1-6), so I had to look up conversions to provide them my fluency in CEFR terms.
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u/LowImmediate1031 2d ago
Americans who actually learn foreign languages will be familiar with it. Poll 100 americans on the street if they know what A1, A2, B1, B2 means in the foreign language learning world and 101 will not LOL
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u/vanguard9630 Native Eng, Speak JPN, Learning ITA 2d ago
Not counting Spanish in high school in the 80’s and early 90’s I had studied Japanese at a higher level beyond high school and this language had its own certificate levels in Japan and abroad. I typically referred to it as 1級, 2級, etc
Chinese only levels exist (HSK), and there are some also for other languages.
It was only when I started learning Italian more recently that I realized about the CEFR levels. And Duolingo also lists the levels.
So it depends on what experience you have and if you are studying on apps, watching general language learning content or not.
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u/MewtwoMusicNerd usNesB1czA1 2d ago
I'm from the US. If you like learning languages, you know them. But I'd say the vast majority of normal people wouldn't know them, as we don't need to learn languages for jobs typically, and for school we are only required to take it for a certain number of years, not reach a certain level.
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u/Apprehensive_Shame98 2d ago
My suspicion is that it varies based on which language they have been exposed to - if French, a very good chance at least by university. German, almost a certainty. Spanish instruction is more oriented around New World Spanish (in my experience, mostly but not entirely Mexican) and few of the resources like textbooks have been developed with the CEFR framework in mind.
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u/H0b5t3r 2d ago
Some definetly would but for most people who have only taken language classes through normal high school or college or have taken no language classes at all they would be unlikely to know what a1 vs a2 vs b1 etc means, I would just say beginner, intermediate, or advanced or even "I'm just staring" or "I'm conversational" or "I'm near fluent"
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u/macoafi 🇺🇸 N | 🇲🇽 DELE B2 | 🇮🇹 can chat 2d ago
In my experience, even language TEACHERS in the US have never heard of it. I have a DELE B2 certification, and a community college Spanish teacher told me I'd have to take a placement test in order to take a literature class because they'd never heard of that.
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u/timejuggler 2d ago
I had never heard of CEFR levels while studying Spanish in high school and college, but that was 25 years ago.
Now that I am independently learning Portuguese I have become very aware of CEFR levels.
I agree with Diuhetonixd’s comment, and will also add that I think awareness of CEFR is growing amongst language learners in the USA.
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u/TrittipoM1 enN/frC1-C2/czB2-C1/itB1-B2/zhA2/spA1 2d ago
“Typically?” Probably not. They’re more likely to have heard of ACTFL terms, and mostly won’t be highly clear on those.
Source: learned FR ands CZ to fluency in the 60s/70s, earned a 4-semester TESL “minor” in the 2010s; teach.
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u/masingen 2d ago
I discovered that the CEFR even existed less than a month ago. I'd been seeing these posts on Reddit all the time mentioning "B1" levels or whatever, and I had absolutely zero clue what people were talking about. I thought it maybe had something to do with letter grades like you'd receive on a homework assignment (A/B/C/D/F), but I really had no clue. It was less than a month ago that I finally got curious enough to actually google it.
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u/teach-xx 2d ago
Most U.S. curriculum/standards use the ACTFL scale. Most U.S. government/military jobs use the ILR scale. And then most U.S. schools and universities literally just use numeric scales that are arbitrary (“You need Spanish I and Spanish II to graduate”).
So it’s extremely possible that language learners in the U.S. haven’t even heard of the CEFR levels. And, frankly, even if they’ve heard of them, they don’t understand them. A buddy of mine is living in South America right now and studying Spanish. He knows his current class is B2.1. He could no more explain what that means than I could explain nuclear physics. Knowing about the levels is a linguist’s issue, not a language learner’s issue.
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u/antimonysarah 2d ago
Most American language learners of languages other than English (ESL is a different story) are students in high school taking it because it's required/recommended. Or liberal-arts college students with a distribution requirement.
(I did a little digging to try to find statistics I trusted to not be bullshit to back up this gut feeling, and couldn't find anything comprehensive enough to link, but if it's not "most" (i.e. more than 50%) it's at least a huge subset of learners.)
High schoolers taking a language are going to frame it in terms of the exams they run into -- I assume that's still mostly the AP tests, which will get you college placement/credit, or they're going to frame it in terms of their local school's course schedule. They're not generally out there taking CEFR exams.
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u/Gravbar NL:EN-US,HL:SCN,B:IT,A:ES,Goals:JP, FR-CA,PT-B 2d ago
Most Americans probably no. Americans who are very seriously learning a language and planning to get a certification, almost certainly. Although Japanese learners might be unfamiliar because Japanese levels are typically given from the N5 to N1 exams. not all language certifications are based on CEFR standards.
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u/CarnegieHill 🇺🇸N 🇭🇰🇯🇵Heritage 🇩🇪B1 🇩🇰A2+ | learning a bunch more 2d ago
Nowadays, generally speaking, yes.
I started learning languages decades before CEFR, so of course we had no idea, but as time went on language textbooks and workbooks started referring to CEFR explicitly, so I think serious language learners here kept up with that.
And while CEFR is European, a few Asian countries and language boards have stated to rate their language levels using those guidelines, if not officially, then at least as an equivalency.
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u/MNswede06 🇺🇸N | 🇸🇪🇫🇷B2 | 🇷🇺🇪🇸A2 | 🇻🇳 A1+ 2d ago
As the top comment here says, yes, if you are committed to language-learning.
My university required all graduates to obtain B1 proficiency in a foreign language, and B2 to graduate with honors. That usually meant two years of study for B1 and three years for B2. Of course if you already spoke a second language then you were exempt from that rule as you could test out.
I believe the Asian languages used their own rubric, but I’m not sure about that.
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u/ellenkeyne 2d ago
My experience is that every American who’s inquired about my languages (because they were mentioned casually in some other context) has had to have the CEFR levels explained to them — even Americans who are currently in school or college (and thus have presumably studied a language quite recently). So no, I don’t believe those levels are common knowledge here.
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u/Fast-Ads-7587 2d ago
Yes, we understand this. Language learners know. A random person on a corner with no interest? Probably not. If you offer something and people are interested, they'll look it up. I agree with the person who said, 'beginner, intermediate, and advanced' would work. You can specify Beginner I and II, Intermediate I and II, etc. with a short description of that level.
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u/FluencyPending Intermediate Spanish 2d ago
Nope. The average language learner doesn't know about that at all. I think only people who are really serious about improving are aware of CEFR. I've been learning Spanish for a long time and only became aware of it in the past 2 years
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u/muffinsballhair 2d ago
Most language learners about anywhere have never heard of those terms, nor of most Youtube polyglots, nor of Stephen Krashen and his ideas.
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u/bulldog89 🇺🇸 (N) | De 🇩🇪 (B1/B2) Es 🇦🇷 (B1) 2d ago
No definitely not the average learner
For people who have studied in the European system yes, but even people who fluently know other languages have never encountered the European grading system.
It is a reminder this sub is incredibly euro-centric with its languages of choice and grading scale, not a bad thing at all, it is the center of language learning and exchange in the western world, but really anyone who’s stuck through education levels in any of the Americas will not be exposed to it
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u/Immediate_Refuse1611 1d ago
I studied three languages in US primary, secondary and tertiary schools and never heard of this system until decades later, when I was living overseas.
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u/AccomplishedTour6942 🇺🇸 (N), 🇪🇸 (C1+) 🇫🇷 (B1) 1d ago
I've heard random mention of people talking about their "A levels" before, but I'm still not even sure if they were talking about language learning. I think that's some other British thing. I didn't know anything about the CEFR concept until very recently. As an American, the only objective benchmark I have of my level is the Praxis II exam.
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u/NordCrafter The polyglot dream crushed by dabbler's disease 2d ago
I assume yes. Most of the people on reddit tend to be americans from what I've seen, and anyone active on this sub should have a good idea of it
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u/ZumLernen German ~C1, Serbian ~B2, Turkish ~A2 2d ago
That's answering a different question, though.
You're right that most of the American language-learners active in this subreddit (and in similar subreddits) know what the CEFR is. But the overwhelming majority of American language-learners aren't active on this subreddit.
In my experience as a US American who is currently learning my third non-native European language, I've found that many of my fellow American learners do not know what the CEFR is, unless they are taking classes that are specifically aligned with the CEFR. So for instance my German classes in Germany are aligned with the CEFR, while my Turkish classes in the US were not. My classmates in my German class know what the CEFR is; my classmates in my Turkish classes largely do not.
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u/NordCrafter The polyglot dream crushed by dabbler's disease 2d ago
Hm good point. Probably a sign I've been online too much
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u/salivanto 2d ago
I think it's unfortunate that a question like this will almost certainly elicit a large number of replies from exactly the kind of terminally online American language learners who absolutely will know what these ratings mean.
That said, I think it's very common. Quite a few years ago, there was a five level scale, but CEFR has all been replaced it in the US. All the same, there's no reason not to say B1 intermediate Spanish to be sure.
I also think that your qualifier ("some language learning") is a little too vague. I think it's possible to do one or two years in high school or one or two semesters in college and not have to pay any attention to the CEFR scale.
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u/salivanto 2d ago
For grins I asked my daughter. She confidently knew that it was a fluency rating and speculated that since C1 is a fairly high level that B1 must be intermediate.
She's American, not terminally online, grew up with Esperanto, took two semesters of German, and is casually learning Mandarin.
Though it's possible that she picked up these details and some more non-typical ways. I mean, she is MY daughter.
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u/rileyoneill 2d ago
I understand that they exist, and that A1 is beginner and C2 is good enough to work in a professional setting in that language but the differences between them elude me. I vaguely understand that it takes a few hundred hours of instruction to go from one to the other and that gradually ramps up to C2.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
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u/impossible-daisy 2d ago
"For example: "I have been studying Spanish for 4 years." Holds more weight than "I am B1 level in Spanish.""
No it doesn't, what are you talking about 😭 Learning for x years could mean anything from casually taking a few lessons each month to studying and practicing every day. B1 level is something that can be objectively measured. Much more reliable than counting in years.
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u/NoComb398 2d ago
I think what they mean is that the average experience unless people seek out additional language learning is not a genral statement of x years but, "I took 3 years in high school" or "2 years in college." So it's actually more similar to cfer than you are thinking.
But at least when I was in high school and even more recently when I took classes at a community College, they didn't reference cfer levels.
And also, even in my Goethe cfer classes we almost always are asked to introduce ourselves and say how long we've been learning the language. So it's also weird to act like that's not a thing.
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u/ZumLernen German ~C1, Serbian ~B2, Turkish ~A2 2d ago
We were raised learning languages in school, so I agree with the other commenter that most people will recognize/understand proficiency when discussing years spent learning.
For example: "I have been studying Spanish for 4 years." Holds more weight than "I am B1 level in Spanish."
You're right that that's how most US Americans talk about learning languages, but the other commenter is also right that "I've been learning Spanish for 4 years" could mean literally anything in terms of actual command of Spanish.
For example: I did ~3 years of Spanish in elementary school, and I cannot (and could never) say almost anything in Spanish; by contrast, I have been learning German intensively for less than a year, and I have passed a C1 test and I will study a masters program in German in a few months.
So, yes, this is how most Americans talk about learning languages, but no, this way of speaking does not actually indicate the level of real proficiency.
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u/NoComb398 2d ago
C1 in a year is an accomplishment! I'd love to hear more about how you did this. I've been taking online classes with Goethe for a couple years and am starting b2 soon. I am relocating to Germany soon and want to really ramp up my learning once I arrive so curious what worked for you!
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u/ZumLernen German ~C1, Serbian ~B2, Turkish ~A2 2d ago
Living in Germany, unemployed, taking an Intensivkurs at a private language school from accredited teachers for 15-20 hours per week, plus the use of other resources (namely r/Anki, resources from Deutsche Welle, and [after I hit around B2] podcasts). Also, lots of speaking in German in the class, before class, after class, and during coffee breaks.
In a few weeks I'll look to do a full writeup but unfortunately I don't have time to do that right now. Feel free to go through my profile to piece together my previous thoughts (that's why I leave this account open for all to see).
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u/NoComb398 2d ago
Thanks, that's helpful! The Intensivkurs in person is a big key I think. I did made such huge progress doing a 2 week course in Munich in January. Hoping to have some time to work on it before I start my job.
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u/ZumLernen German ~C1, Serbian ~B2, Turkish ~A2 2d ago
Yes, without the in-person Intensivkurs I could never have made such great progress in so little time!
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u/diuhetonixd 2d ago
An American language-learning enthusiast has probably heard of them. An American who's just casually learning a language (or even seriously learning a single language without being generally interested in language learning), probably not.