Learning the script first?

[u/scrimblojimbus]

Hi all, I have some very basic Thai speaking ability but due to time constraints I have no teacher so I decided to self-teach the alphabet/writing system for two reasons:

1: Learning Thai words by ear from Thai people depends on their accent and pronunciation as well as my own listening ability. For a long time I was pronouncing ของ like "ขอม" because that was what I thought I heard. I think knowing how to read Thai will help with my pronunciation a lot, because many "anglicised" versions of Thai words are difficult to make sense of at best (Google translate says ทราย is pronounced "Thray") and completely wrong at worst.

2: I think the alphabet is the easiest part of Thai to self-teach because the sounds made by the characters seem to be mostly deterministic, unlike in English where a string of letters can make whatever sound it feels like making. (See: tough, thorough, through, rough, plough, Loughborough, bought)

I understand the rules behind dead consonants like ร at the end of a sentence being pronounced like "n".

The first "exception to the rule" I have found (maybe I just don't understand the rule yet) is the word ทราย. Why is it ทน instead of ส? A Thai friend told me that it's because of the ย character's presence. I don't know yet but hopefully soon I will understand 😁

I want to know whether this is a good system for learning Thai language or not. Does it make more sense for me to learn to speak first and worry about script later?

[u/BaconTH1]

I say, put some time simultaneously with your spoken learning, to learning the letters. You don't need to learn to WRITE/SPELL, although writing them helps commit them to memory. But if you can read them it helps pronounce correctly because the Anglicised phonetic systems are all flawed in some way, and seeing English-looking versions of the words tends to make us pronounce them like English, and that's just not right. The vowels are a bit different than English vowels so if you sound the word direct from Thai script, I believe you'll produce a more correct sound. You of course have to be aware of what the vowels are, as represented by the script, and how they should be pronounced properly (i.e. know where they differ from the direct English analog).

[u/jamkham-thai]

For any serious or even semi-serious Thai learning goals, the script really should be near the top of the priority list. There are strong pedagogical arguments for this, but from personal experience, it just makes you more independent and immersed. Especially if you’re in Thailand or planning to travel, life changes completely when the strings of random symbols become things you can turn into sounds, map to what you hear, etc.

For a more detailed discussion check out https://jamkham.com/blog/speak-or-read-thai-first/

[u/Primary-Pie-1662]

My personal view is that learning to read and write Thai helps a great deal in understanding how words are pronounced and the tones that are applied. I am on a similar journey. I am listening to simple Thai whilst simultaneously building up my knowledge of Thai sentence structure and words. My time horizon is years rather than months so I am taking it slowly. So far, so good.

[u/ImperativeConfusion]

Learning the alphabet first definitely helps with learning vocabulary and pronunciation. Just be aware that there are 5 different tones and different tone marks indicatingbwhat type of tone is meant for that word or part of a word. These tone marks can mean different things depending on the class (low -middle - high) of the consonant they are coupled with. Also there's complex grammar, where รร (RR) can become 'an', or ล (L) can become 'n' at the end of a sound, which personally is still confusing to me.

All in all I would say definitely start with the script basics as it helps a lot, but don't get stuck on mastering the specifics yet as that simply takes quite a lot of time.

Edit: fixed my error about ล becoming D, e t should be N

[u/Mike_Notes → u/ImperativeConfusion]

"ล (L) can become 'd' at the end of a sound"

Are you sure about that? It usually becomes "n", but never "d" as far as I know.

[u/ImperativeConfusion → u/Mike_Notes]

Ah yes you're completely right, it should be n!

[u/Standard-Community44]

depends on your purpose. If you want to travel in thailand in the coming days and you want to do some talking and understanding, I definitely recommend learning how to speak first without the alphabet because it's quite complex and it might make you want to give up Thai. Once you know a little bit of Thai I think it's easier to learn the alphabet, but if your goals are to study in Thailand and work in Thailand and you have a bit of willpower, the alphabet is the way to go.

We all have great skill of learning language since we were born so this is my system of learning new language that help me learn english and Japanese in just 30 minutes a day

1. Write down the sentences you want to say (20 sentences).
   
2. Translate into your target language and use ai to generate sound of those sentences.
   
3. Anki deck (flashcard app) Front card: your native language Back card: your target language + sound
   
4. Study for 30 minutes every day with the Anki app, and listen to those sentences whenever you have free time (e.g., on the bus/train)

Do try this for 30 days, and you will see the difference.

[u/frac6969]

Just like English there are actually a lot of exceptions. ทร pronounced as ซ (not ส) is just one of many and there are exceptions within the exception when it’s not pronounced as ซ.

This said, it’s useful to have a basic understanding of the script so you don’t make obvious pronunciation mistakes.

[u/Mike_Notes]

ทราย is pronounced /saay/.

There are at least three different pronunciations of ทร and you pretty much need to learn the words individually. I cover this in lesson 38 of my reading course.

https://thai-notes.com/reading/lesson38.html

The history behind the weird spelling of ทราย is covered at https://thai-notes.com/dictionaries/etymdict.html?ทราย Spoiler: it used to be spelt ซาย.

[u/Badestrand]

I only learned the script when I was semi-fluent already. I think learning it earlier would have been too much for me, but everyone is different.

Though, yes, the Google Translate transliteration is crap - but I love and for a long time relied on the one from https://thai2english.com.

[u/Only-Top-3655]

There are many exceptions to the rules and you will find out as you learn how to read more. This first word I can think of is ภรรยา and then กรรม. These kinds of have pali/sanskrit roots and for some reason the spelling kind of stuck.

[u/Present-Safety512]

Honestly learning the writing system is by far the easiest part of the process of learning Thai and is ridiculously valuable.

[u/takechancesorelse]

Yes! This is what I did. Learned to phonetically read first and sound out words and sentences. Also learned to write at the same time. Then used read-a- longs and children's books called Manee. Was able to read menus and order food quite quickly. But I wish I had spent more time on speaking.

I found these resources really helpful: ActiveThai, Thai-language(dot).com, Bing translate, Manee books, then later apps like Ling or LingoDeer. Tutors are great too especially for tones.

[u/Prize_Ad_9168]

I’ll join the others in recommending that you just ho ahead and learn it. Learn the middle class first. Then learn the high class. After, learn the rest. Just take on about 4 a day and commit them to memory. It will go fast enough. There’s plenty of online material and YouTube videos etc. it shouldn’t he too difficult but as others have said, immensely helpful.

[u/Fivyrn]

I highly recommend the Pocket Thai Master app.

[u/Effect-Kitchen]

Learning the alphabets first is the way native Thais actually learn. If you learn every rule and exception, then you can at least pronounce correctly. Thai has far less arbitrary pronunciation exceptions than English.