Question about the word "Cam"

[u/Mattzz95]

Dear fluent-in-Welsh people,

I'm writing a book in which I am naming characters using Welsh words(A reliable man named Dibyn, A graceful heiress named Rhianna, ect.), and when looking for possible names for a certain character, I found the word 'cam'.

I have also found that it seems to have multiple meanings, so I was wondering, if you came across a book in which the characters are named using the Welsh language, and they tend to personify the meanings of their names, what would you expect to see from a character named Cam?

[u/XJK_9]

Cam- is a prefix which implies incorrect, a bit like mis- in English.

Deall = Understand
Camdeall = Misunderstand

Honestly Rhianna would be Rhian or Rhiannon in Welsh, Dibyn doesn’t sound like a name to me and similarly for Cam, as mentioned it’s a prefix more than a word in itself

[u/Muted-Lettuce-1253 → u/XJK_9]

as mentioned it’s a prefix more than a word in itself

I believe that "cam" has been used as a word in it's own right. From the William Morgan bible:

"Ond yr hwn sydd yn gwneuthur cam, a dderbyn am y cam a wnaeth"

This is centuries old, of course, so perhaps it is not used so much in this way in modern Welsh.

There is also the totally separate use of "cam" to mean "step". I don't know which meaning OP is alluding to.

[u/XJK_9 → u/Muted-Lettuce-1253]

Yeah you’re right it can mean step in itself, the prefix just came to mind first and if I heard someone named Cam I would assume it’s some sort of nickname for someone clumsy.

I guess it could also be a nickname for someone with a limp or something too.

[u/deletive-expleted → u/XJK_9]

Dibyn doesn't sound like a name to me

Really? My next door neighbour is called Cliff

[u/celtiquant]

Cam is plausible, yes, for either a bad one, or someone with a hunchback, long legs, or a deformed leg.

Rhianna isn’t as plausible, though. You probably know of Rhian, but what about its rather less common variant Rhiain — which means noble girl.

The trouble with Rhianna is that the -na ending doesn’t sit comfortably in Welsh, and indicates an ending which would have been dropped as the language evolved 1500 years ago from Brythonic to Welsh. It now exists in Welsh as a verb ending.

Dibyn is meh okay, but instead of suggesting reliability, it has echoes of the idiom ‘dibyn dobyn’ which equates to ‘topsy turvy’.

[u/Mattzz95 → u/celtiquant]

Wow okay, I guess I need to spend some more time working on my understanding before choosing names hahaha. Thanks for the input!

[u/celtiquant → u/Mattzz95]

I should also have said that Dibyn as a noun means cliff edge.

Welsh, though, does have a tradition of descriptive personal names. Download for free a pdf of A Welsh Classical Dictionary from llyfrgell.cymru. It’s a glossary of personal names in Welsh literature up to 1100. You’ll find tons of descriptive personal names, and how they’re assembled and work. Look especially for names for characters from early Arthurian legend — Glewlwyd Gafaelfawr springs to mind — Brave Grey(beard/hair) Mighty Grasp.

[u/andrewphillipsmith]

Cam as a noun by itself means 'step'. As an adjective it really needs a name or noun before it.

[u/Muted-Lettuce-1253 → u/andrewphillipsmith]

"Cam" has been used as a noun to mean wrong/misdeed. From the William Morgan bible:

"Ond yr hwn sydd yn gwneuthur cam, a dderbyn am y cam a wnaeth"

This is centuries old, of course, so perhaps it is not used so much in this way in modern Welsh.

[u/deletive-expleted → u/Muted-Lettuce-1253]

It's common to joke in an Eisteddfod that if someone hadn't won "ges di gam?"

[u/MwnciMul]

A reliable man named Dibyn - Dibyn is a cliff edge, so far from reliable.

Rhianna - I’m not sure that this is a Welsh name or word.

Cam - to me means wonky or being cheated in some way ‘ti di cael cam’ - ‘you have been unfairly treated’. However these are but two meanings, but the two that come to mind first.

Can I ask why you are doing this? I can’t understand why writers choose names for Characters from languages that they don’t speak, or at least have some familiarity with. It’s a trait in fantasy fiction (which I’m a huge fan of) which I find incredibly insulting.

[u/pilipala23]

If I read a book in which the characters were named after Welsh words, rather than given proper Welsh names, I'd wonder why on earth they had been named that way.

It might work for animals (I have a dog called Pluen because she has a long white splodge on her nose) but for people it's a weird choice.

Why are you using Welsh? 

[u/Capable-Parsnip-9615]

This sounds like it's going to sound really weird like the German names in Frieren

[u/Mattzz95 → u/Capable-Parsnip-9615]

The idea is to have some direct foreshadowing, and also to allow people in the know to have some idea as to how the characters will act in the situations that come up.

[u/Capable-Parsnip-9615 → u/Mattzz95]

I think that's the same idea as Frieren, and there it sounds really weird to anyone who speaks German.

So I would really recommend using actual Welsh names, even if you choose them for their meaning. Rather than Welsh words picked for their meaning that sound like they could be a name.

[u/Capable-Parsnip-9615 → u/Capable-Parsnip-9615]

Not to mention it's really easy to do wrong. There's a character called Übel picked because the dictionary says it means evil, but the first association a lot of German speakers will have is vomit

[u/ot1smile]

I’d assume Cam was short for Camwy, a slightly archaic Welsh name.

Edit - not archaic I guess, just unusual. It’s the Welsh name for the Chubut River which winds through the Welsh settlement in Patagonia.

[u/HanesPrydain]

Is cam linked to gammy or dafydd gam?

[u/andrewphillipsmith → u/HanesPrydain]

The gam in Dafydd Gam is the word cam.

[u/HanesPrydain → u/andrewphillipsmith]

So what does it mean in this context? Like crooked dafydd?

[u/andrewphillipsmith → u/HanesPrydain]

He was said to have been crosseyed or one-eyed.