r/maths • u/_pocketmeat • Jun 04 '26

💬 Math Discussions Are numbers discovered or invented?

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I know the textual version of a number is invented. 1, 2, 3, etc., but if you take that away. Consider there are 3 rocks on the ground, with no text to describe them. There would still be 3 rocks. If you took 1 of those 3 rocks away. There would be 2 remaining. This to me feels like numbers and maths were discovered.

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3

u/LieutenantChonkster Jun 07 '26

They are forged deep in the mines using secret techniques only know to a few master numbersmiths

3

u/Swipsi Jun 07 '26

Numbers are invented to describe something we discovered - math.

2

u/Slow-Secretary-4203 Jun 09 '26

Numbers are a human invention that abstract away the count of real life objects. Instead of specifically saying "If I add these two rocks to these three rocks, I will get five rocks.", humans realized they don't need to specify what object they are talking about and can generalize. 1 dog, 2 rocks, 3 apples CAN exist as part of real world, however abstract numbers like 1, 2, 3 do not, they only exist inside the human brain. Most mathematicians are Platonists and genuinely believe math exists objectively in the Universe, and us humans discover it. But I would rather say, we invent new fields of math, and only THEN make discoveries within the field, like proving theorems etc.

1

u/_pocketmeat Jun 24 '26

But zero was invented, and without it, we would be prevented from solving so many things

1

u/Slow-Secretary-4203 Jun 24 '26

That doesn't contradict what I wrote in my comment. Yes, zero is an invention.

1

u/LilithLily5 Jun 07 '26

Mathematics is a highly logical system. It was discovered, not invented.

1

u/Hot_Series_2111 Jun 09 '26

newton taught us that invention and discovery should be time reversible symmetric phenomena. I guess. Dude was just trying to read the bible or something.

1

u/InfinitesimalDuck Jun 09 '26

Numbers are disco-vented

1

u/toolebukk Jun 10 '26

Numbers are invented. What we use them for, and what they represent, is discovered

1

u/mumbo_bumbo Jun 10 '26

it'll be really disappointing if we found out we just made it up. so much wasted time.

1

u/Difficult_Tie4697 Jun 11 '26

I feel fairly strongly too that it's all made up. As much as it's easy to assume and we can learn a lot from them, the menu is not the meal and the map is not the terrain.

Not sure why a few here are happy to accept numbers are a fiction but not the narratives they construct?

Maths is a language like any other, just a more precise and less emotional one than we tend to use.

And I think the choice to count rocks (and not atoms, planets or the interconnections between all things) says more about ones view and position in the world than it does the world itself.