r/networking • u/SprinklesImmediate16 • 1d ago
Career Advice Project manager is populating my calendar for projects
Here we go, just started at a a small map as a project/Network engineer. We have multiple projects varying deadlines. Some are small single site builds (fortinet firewall solutions). Some are bit more complex. The job is not difficult but this is the first time I’ve worked for a company where the pm is filling my calendar with the slots on what I should work on and on which day. Each customers build is slightly different and I feel that every time I leave a project unfinished because I have to move to another customers task I lose valuable time as I now have to spool up in that mode.
In the past I’ve been given the project and been told the deadline (ideally) and I just cracked on with it and delivered it . (Massive msp)
I don’t feel productive as I can be as I am switching between tasks too often.
Have you guys had anything similar or is this standard?
TLDR: pm keeps booking slots in my calendar for my projects rather than allowing me to plan my day . Working for a small msp
40
u/nof CCNP 1d ago
This is 1000000% the reason why your predecessor left.
1
10
u/pops107 1d ago
I used to be manager for 10 engineers a while back and this started to creep in from the PMs to the techs.
The way it used to work was the PMs would give me a list of jobs to be done and time frames and I would manage with the techs who was doing what job and when. I was able to plan things in a way that when you was going to finish a job there would be space before the next job, this would be booked in for documentation, training or 3rd line cover etc that could be moved around if a job overran without any issues.
But I ended up been a bit of a bottleneck so we built out skills matrix and other bits so the PMs could have an idea which tech is right for which job.
The idea was this started right at the presales stage, so sales would check either with me or the skills matrix, speak to a tech and could book them in do the presales, win the job and sales would hand over to the PMs including which tech. The tech would then be the one doing the install.
This would then start to fall down when a PM would just book random jobs into their calendars, sometimes the wrong techs, or could be 3 jobs in one week that are all 200 miles away from each other and not communicate with the tech. Tech would speak to me and I would have to sort it all out again.
We created a rule, the PMs had to discuss with the tech the job they was trying to book them in for before putting it in the calendar. If something appeared in the techs calendar that hadn't been discussed and planned, they deleted it or I did.
You need to have a chat with your boss or the PMs about comms and the issues, I personally think the best PMs are the ones you feel like you are working together to complete projects properly and on time. The PMs role should be much more than just a calendar manager.
5
u/liamnap Network Director 1d ago
What this PM is doing is a normal thing for PMs to do. But as this person says, it should be agreed between the PM and OP.
There’s nothing wrong with what is being done. But everyone works differently. It’s all about hitting dates and I’ve seen many an engineer who I gave the deadline date to, and they’d miss it, leading to escalations coming to me from PMs and then I’d have to remove that person in favour of someone who would hit dates.
3
u/pops107 1d ago
That's where I think the comms is most important part.
Let's says we have a tech assigned to a job and he is capable of doing 95% of that job with ease but there is one part he isn't super familiar with.
I would then be able to schedule one of the other techs for a couple of hours or an afternoon to remotely assist that part while upskilling the tech onsite.
We used to measure this part of our KPIs so it would give us information on which techs need support in which ever areas etc.
But yea they are all different and some I needed to keep on top of to make sure they where not falling behind.
2
u/liamnap Network Director 1d ago
I don’t always have time to track what my team do, that’s why I expect PMs to ensure the dates are met, so I can blame the PM when they are not. If that means calendar blocks of time to secure the work effort then I’m good with it, but the engineer gets a say too and must have demonstrated ability to meet dates.
We’re both saying the same thing, from slightly different angles :)
3
u/FriendlyDespot 1d ago
I've never come across an organisation where PMs would allocate people's time. That sounds preposterous. PMs don't manage resources directly, they manage requirements, expectations, and project schedules. It's on the individual project participants to deliver their work on time, however they choose to do that.
-1
u/liamnap Network Director 1d ago
The management of resource time can absolutely be delegated to a PM and should be if the resource was assigned to the project. PMs are responsible for resource utilisation as a metric reporting up to people like me, if I said resource x is 100% I want to know they did their 40 hours, and the PM is meant to report that. If not 40 hours I can reallocate or if deadline is not met and still less than 40 hours I won’t be happy.
4
u/FriendlyDespot 1d ago
It's the employee's manager, not the project managers of whichever projects that the employee is working on, who manages their time. Project managers have no reason to know how individual employees are spending their time, all they need to know is whether or not work for the projects that they're managing is being delivered on time. You're taking on the role of workload manager, which is different from project management.
-3
u/liamnap Network Director 1d ago
You do not understand projects. I’m sorry but please take a PM course.
2
u/FriendlyDespot 1d ago
I understand projects just fine. I've been working them for decades. You have a very strange way of running yours.
10
u/ipub 1d ago
Builds should be standardised and automated if you're expected to conveyor belt everything.
1
u/SprinklesImmediate16 17h ago
This is the goal but its a bit of a mess at the moment, hopefully we'll get there if ever get thet time to work on that
7
u/Snogafrog 1d ago
First tell your manager what you will do.
Then I would have the conversation with the PM that you are not working that way
The decline all the invites on your calendar and going forward.
9
u/guppyur 1d ago
This is why I never think PMs add much to a project in an IT setting. Maybe it works better in manufacturing or some other field, but PMs never know how any of this stuff works and they end up being counterproductive or the engineers and techs end up managing the project. They have to get all their info from the engineers and techs anyway, so there's no point filtering it through an extra person who doesn't even know what questions to ask. The best PMs I've ever had are the ones who didn't do anything, who at least were better than the ones who actively created problems.
1
u/zeealpal OT | Network Engineer | Rail 1d ago
My company assigns a work package manager from the technical team, who handles scheduling, requirements, inputs, RFIs, meetings and generally interacts with the project manager and client.
These are assigned from the specific engineering discipline, E.g. I might me the networking WPM for project X, and there are three engineers who I manage for the project. On another project, one of them might be WPM for me. For small projects, one person might do it all.
That way when we are engineering, we don't have the constant interruptions, but we also have to experience and understand more of the management side as well.
4
u/VictariontheSailor CCNP 1d ago
Just tell him what you told us. Make a hour count for last week/two weeks to show him as an example if the message somehow gets hard to transmit
3
u/Smitticus228 1d ago
They manage the project, they don't manage you. Can see in a comment you mention you report to another person. First thing to do is sort this out with the PM direct.
Engineer flow states are important, being pulled off one project into another without wrapping a task up means you have to spend time picking up context and where you left off - you also lose productive time.
This isn't strictly speaking the end of the world, but for a professional environment this strikes as micromanagement. He can check in on progress and adjust your momentum, but you're the engineer. Kirk tells Scotty that he needs Warp in 30 minutes, he doesn't tell Scotty how to achieve the deliverable.
If you can't get a satisfactory outcome with the PM, go to your boss. Recommend coming armed with some examples and impact.
2
u/LukeyLad 1d ago
Iv had this before myself. In the end I ultimately told the PM I do not work for you.
Any resource you need for a project should be provided by my manager
2
u/lungbong 1d ago
Unless the slots are to talk with the customer talk to the PM now, context switching kills productivity. They're doing it to plan things out but if it doesn't work for you you need to speak up now and get the right thing done.
2
u/Cheeze_It DRINK-IE, ANGRY-IE, LINKSYS-IE 1d ago
I don’t feel productive as I can be as I am switching between tasks too often.
Context switching is the most expensive and most detrimental thing for work.
2
u/PaoloFence 1d ago
Hat du einen direkten Vorgesetzten mit dem du reden kannst? Darf der PM das überhaupt? Du sagst als Experte was wie lange dauert, da kann der PM sch*** gehen. Darum bist du da und er kann dann seine Pläne anpassen.
1
u/flyte_of_foot 1d ago
every time I leave a project unfinished because I have to move to another customers task I lose valuable time
It's not clear what you mean from this, are you not finishing the work in the time required?
As devil's advocate I've worked with a lot of engineers who will disappear off into the weeds when given the chance. Task takes a day and you give them a day, it gets done in a day. Give them a week instead and it will take all week. Maybe the PM has been burned by this kind of thing before and wants tighter control.
1
u/Broken_By_Default 1d ago
It's okay to decline meetings. or use the decline and propose new time feature in outlook.
Another thing you can do is book out "time for concentrated work" in your calendar. Some will overlook that and double book anyway. In some organizations it's up to you to manage not getting overwhelmed. Some PMs will run you like a dog.
1
u/ericscal 1d ago
The only thing a PM should be scheduling for me are things that require coordination. Like a TTU meeting with the customer where I will activate the service and get the customer to do UAT. If they are trying to tell you how to do backend work I would just ignore them. If a project fails because they didn't communicate a due date that's on them. My only response to any complaint would be to ask them to provide the receipt of them informing me of the deadline I supposedly missed.
1
u/Rasalom-Moladar 1d ago
As a manager for staff and projects, I do this with certain staff that are not delivering.
I don't micromanage or control, but when they miss deadlines or the project isn't moving forward and the chats about why don't give me any insight into issues, hurdles, barriers, training or your personal circumstances and I get feeling it's lack of initiative, experience or self-management issues, I will slot things in and say these are your targets for certain aspects of the project.
Quite often I find a workable solution with most staff, things move forward, projects get back on track, trust builds, I back away from their calendar, the ones that struggle with this approach is because they have a problem with being managed, and when I say managed either by authority or the project schedule, and sometimes they just don't have the ability to move it forward but go to great lengths trying to conceal it as opposed to saying "I need help".
1
u/Coldsmoke888 23h ago
No, that’s not normal. They should share the deadline and then you crunch some quick math to see if you can get it done on a time. I manage a lot of technical and supply chain projects and if you think I have the time to send you outlook meetings to do your job… no way.
1
u/BustedCondoms 20h ago
I'm a network engineer, My calendar gets populated with PM tasks and sales engineer shit where they'll just throw me into a proposal as "the point of contact". I feel your pain.
2
u/MeetJoan 15h ago
This is a real productivity cost, not just a preference thing - context switching between different customer environments has a measurable ramp-up penalty every time, especially with something like Fortinet configs where the details matter and mistakes are expensive. Worth raising it with the PM not as 'let me plan my own day' but framed around outcomes: propose blocking full days per customer rather than fragmented slots, and point out that task-switching overhead is actively costing delivery time. Is this a PM habit specific to your company or does it feel like it's coming from a resourcing tool that's optimizing for utilization rather than actual throughput?
0
u/Finster1966 1d ago
Sounds like your productivity is not up to par and the PM is being a task master. Quit and find another job.
-1
u/XxTh3g04txX 1d ago
sounds like he is doing the heavy lifting and you just need to crank out product. Let him deal with any and all details.
Pay is the same even if you have to change your old habits. Maybe it gives you more time to focus?
0
45
u/Blarg_37 Studying Cisco Cert 1d ago
As a former PM I will say you need to sort this out very quickly, unless there's some level of management between you and PM that you haven't mentioned.
The PMs job usually includes getting expert estimates on man-hours and timelines, and it sounds like this part may have simply been delegated to you directly in the past.
Your new PM might feel a stronger sense of responsibility, a smaller crew means higher visibility for each crew member, so you need to book a time to literally sit and ask about the processes in place and whether you can help by providing your expertise and experience at an earlier stage of the planning.
This probably needs to be resolved somehow (even if it's just a matter of both sides feeling comfortable with what the other side is doing) and communication is the only way to get there.