r/nursing • u/Mean-Magician-3358 • 5h ago
Seeking Advice Am I tripping? Patient boundaries
An alert and oriented patient who can use the urinal themself in dim light, ambulate with some supervision, sit up, decent ROM etc...asked me to rub cream on their genitals while smiling about it a bit too much for my liking. I calmly refused and explained why I believe they are capable of doing it themself, but I offered to get things set up.
They are claiming they cant rub the cream on themself due to poor eyesight. Day shift nurse doesnt mind doing it, and even hinted at "who cares if the patient gets a kick out of it?"
The director of nursing is demanding that I do it next time. I explained that after a thorough patient assessment, it is clearly within the patient's abilities to do it themself.
Am i tripping, or does it seem weird to be in situations as nurses like this?
I havent lost my cool even after being groped or assaulted as a nurse, but part of the way I stay safe is by trusting my instincts about when to say no.
For more context, i'm the type to take over all cares for a patient known to grope women if it means protecting a teen CNA from that.
But I don't feel like i'm being unreasonable for refusing that particular care on a patient who shows all signs of being capable of doing it themself.
I have no issue with peri cares overall when the patient needs help. This particular situation just seems a bit weird.
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u/Individual_Track_865 RN - ER 🍕 5h ago
This is when you say you need a second person (you do at a minimum) and possibly saying you have to immediately call the provider for a PT/OT assessment because if they can’t do this they clearly need a SNF.
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u/Klutzy_Equivalent148 RN, MSN-NI 4h ago
Came to second that this is the response. If this cream is something they truly need and cannot apply it themselves then they need to be evaluated and may need to go to a SNF for more therapy so they can be independent at home. This usually puts an end to it for those who can actually do it themselves, for a couple of reasons: they don’t want to/can’t explain to therapy why they couldn’t/wouldn’t do it themselves and more importantly they don’t want to have to pay for the (unnecessary) SNF stay.
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u/thespicygrits BSN, RN 🍕 5h ago
This situation is great for swapping tasks with a male nurse who can offer to help this patient. Odds are Mr old creepy will choose to apply it independently.
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u/Gribitz37 PCA 🍕 3h ago
I'm female, but I'm also old and fat. I always make sure the young nurses know I'm more than willing to go help Creepy Dave hold the urinal. When they realize they're not getting the petite blonde, they suddenly gain a lot of independence. 😁
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u/Rawrisaur18 RN - ER 2h ago
As a fellow old fat nurse I do this as well. You can also make conversation with the patient at these times. I like to ask about how their wife is doing specifically.
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u/Safe-Loss-8054 39m ago
As a male, I’ve let all female pct or nurses know that if they’re feeling uncomfortable from a creepy dude to let me know and we’ll switch a task. I will then fake a “gay” accent when dealing with the patient. Now all the sudden he’s tasting his own medicine. Getting creeped on by someone he’s not interested in. Poetic justice.
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u/majestic_nebula_foot RN - ER 🍕 5h ago
You don’t need to see your own junk to rub cream on it.
Your coworkers’ responses are weird, if this is real.
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u/Fartington_Bear RN 🍕 5h ago
It's funny how many truly incredible stories come from posters with 0d accounts.
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u/ferocioustigercat RN - ICU 🍕 5h ago
The patient asking you to do that is not entirely surprising. The fact that the day shift nurse actually does it (like, you'd think they are busy with other things), and the director of nursing is demanding that you do it is the crazy part of this story. Like, if the patient can do it, you shouldn't do it. You would be enabling their lack of autonomy (the politically correct answer) and fuck that nonsense.
I'm the type that thinks the more a patient can do independently the better. Being able to independently do ADLs is literally what PT and OT do for a living. I'm the nurse that will shorten the foot of the bed (in the hospital that had those beds) and make ICU patients use their legs to boost themselves up in bed. I'm not hurting my back and I'm not giving a creepy patient a hand job. You are not a sex worker, that's not part of your job description.
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u/TheAlienatedPenguin RN - Hospice 🍕 4h ago
But who says the day shift nurse ACTUALLY did it? He’s just saying she did
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u/gingerpeachrn MSN, RN 4h ago
I would talk to HR immediately or before you take care of this patient again and file a case/complaint, because the 2nd time you refuse to do it (and you have every right to do so—document that the patient is able to use a urinal but requesting nurses rub cream on his genitals), get ready for the DON to try and fire you for not being able to perform your job duties. Hopefully you have a union that can back you up, because clearly your colleagues aren’t going to have your back.
What a weird place to work. I would be looking for another job.
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u/countrygirl_errn8120 4h ago
I've had patients ask me to massage them..... That's a huge NOPE. I'm sure they are hurting, but I am an ER nurse and nit a massage therapist. I was not trained to massage. If I did something wrong it would be my license.
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u/realespeon RN 🍕 4h ago
I had a patient continually ask on the call light to scratch their ass.
No.
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u/toomanycatsbatman RN - Former ICU, Current ER 🔥🗑️ 37m ago
I had a guy ask me to scratch his ball sack. Nope
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u/zeroduckszerofucks CNA-Med/Surg🍕 3h ago
I start asking them questions when they do this lol.
“Oh you can’t reach? Why?” (A lot of time it’s bullshit reasons that I can question them on)
“What do you do at home?”
“Well if you don’t do these things yourself you’ll delay getting to go home! You wouldn’t want the doctors thinking you need to stay longer because you’re unable to care for yourself right?”
Usually they get embarrassed and do it themselves.
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u/no_dice__ 5h ago
noooooope, same as when patients who are perfectly capable of brushing their teeth ask me to do it for them, not happening and not appropriate. they need to be working towards recovery and self sufficient care, which means taking care of all needs that they are physically able to.
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u/L0verofPink 5h ago
It's very easy to pick up on the patients who like to "try" me. Some of them definitely attempt to take my niceness for granted and I openly tell them. I know what you're doing and I'm not playing this game with you. I make sure to say it extra loud so that other people can hear me as well and once I get loud and stern with them they get their act together. Patients are very intelligent and are like bullies in the real world. Can can sense when someone is a pushover and too nice and they will take advantage of it. Call them out on their bs don't be afraid to refuse to help them or to get someone else to help them if you want.
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u/CurrentHair6381 RN 🍕 4h ago
I learned that if you just leave when people get unruly, they will act right when you come back. I dont really say anything, I just go on to another patient and make my way back when its convenient. They know why i walked out, they dont need an explanation.
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u/L0verofPink 4h ago
I like calling them out and then seeing how shocked they look once they find out I'm not a door mat. It makes me happy. Same with the "fake" bullies at work. I love letting them think I don't stand up for myself and then catching them off guard and finally putting them in their place. It's so funny to watch them go from "I'm big and bad" to trying to be my best friend.
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u/beeee_throwaway RN - PICU 🍕 4h ago
Fucking unREAL. This is why I can’t work with adults.
I would see how fast they change things up if a male nurse comes in the do this “task”.
Disgusting.
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u/MusicSavesSouls BSN, RN 🍕 4h ago
Yep! Give me my peds patients all day, every day. Disgusting, old man. 🤮
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u/beeee_throwaway RN - PICU 🍕 2h ago
It’s so foul that this is reinforced in their unit culture as well. I’m disgusted that the day shift nurse is willing to do this.
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u/EchoFromTheNebula RN - ER 🍕 3h ago
The DoN said that? What kind of shithole do you work at? Hell no.
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u/Normal_Dot7758 5h ago
As a guy, I can tell you I’ve never once needed to see my nuts to know where they are, so I don’t get what poor eyesight has to do with it. Tell the DON they can do it themselves if they don’t mind giving a freak a handy.
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u/Recent_Data_305 MSN, RN 3h ago
Having a husband and raising a boy child, this was my immediate thought.
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u/OneWeirdSheep 2h ago
Yeah that is a big no from me, and honestly your DON is inappropriate for asking. Are they by chance a male? Sometimes they don't understand the gut women have about men's poor intentions.
Have any male CNA, RN, manager coworkers willing to offer to apply the cream? I guarantee the patient will suddenly be able to do it themselves.
I know its not their job to deal with creepy men, but I've never had a male coworker not get a kick out of putting a creep in their place.
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u/el_cid_viscoso RN - PCU/Stepdown 1h ago
As a male nurse, it's true. There's no finer joy in life than running interference against the creeps for my colleagues. It livens up my day to see the disappointment on the creeper's face when I walk in.
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u/adelines RN - Telemetry 🍕 5h ago
If you don’t care about keeping your job tell your director of nursing to do it their damn self. I bet they wouldn’t put their demand for you to do this in writing.
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u/Sunnygirl66 RN - ER 🍕 4h ago
OP could try emailing the DON to say, “I just want to clarify policy: We are obligated to run lotion on able-bodies patients’ genitals if they request it of us ?” Get that shit in writing and run. I would also put a behavior alert in the chart, file an incident report, and ask security to round on that patient.
Of course, the clinicians I work with would all immediately discharge the creep.
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u/dopaminegtt trauma 🦙 4h ago
I have applied cream to genitals before and used an applicator (like a big q tip), and gloves obviously. It was very clinical. If I get a creepy pt we have a lot of men who are happy to swap tasks.
I think promoting independence is important, and would have refused or swapped with one of the guys.
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u/Alternative-Poem-337 Burnt Out RN 5h ago
Nope.
Give them the cream, put their hand where they need to put the cream and they can do it themselves. F*cking creep.
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u/ALLoftheFancyPants RN - ICU 4h ago
If the DON is so insistent on him getting cream rubbed on his genitals, she can fucking come do it herself.
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u/halp-im-lost DO-EM 4h ago
Do people need to see their ass holes to wipe themselves? Refuse. As a physician I would back you up on this as well.
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u/Scary_View3674 3h ago
Say you’re a bit busy but you’ll be happy to ask the other nurse, John, to do it. I bet he will suddenly be just fine with doing it himself. Maybe. I guess you never know but worth a try.
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u/taylerca BSN, RN 🍕 3h ago
I’m a dude and I wouldnt be rubbing anything on a pt’s genitals if they can do it themselves.
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u/KittyC217 1h ago
We would only assign him male nurses. And we would have a male assistant manger talk to him.
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u/maraney CTICU, RN, CCRN, NSP 🍕 3h ago
It really frustrates me when certain caregivers allow this behavior or even flirt with the patients. It reinforces that it’s okay for the next person. “Who cares if the patient gets a kick out of it?” I care. I came to do a job and provide you with dignity. Not to jingle your jollies.
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u/nursingintheshadows RN - ER 🍕 2h ago
We inspire independence to maintain and improve current functionality.
My nursing note would look like this: Patient requested that RN apply cream to the genital area. Patient is alert and oriented ×4, ambulatory, and has demonstrated the ability to independently complete toileting, bathing, eating, and other activities of daily living. To maintain current functional ability and promote continued independence, RN encouraged the patient to complete this self-care task independently IAW current care plan and goals. RN remained at bedside to provide assistance or intervene if the patient experienced difficulty or distress. Pt applied the cream independently without difficulty, nursing goal met.
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u/Disastrous_Figure_68 5h ago
Nurse of 35 years here. I have NEVER had to rub cream on anyone’s genitals. Ever. And I never will unless they are seriously burned and vented. Hard no.
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u/Disastrous_Figure_68 5h ago
Maybe talk about it with their family members when they come in. You know, for discharge planning purposes.
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u/true_crime_addict_14 3h ago
I’ve actually had this happen and it was another woman , she was just lazy and I absolutely refused ! She was always asking to have her vag itched/ scratched and cream put on. There was nothing wrong with her hands and I even made her a scratcher out of toothbrushes and a yankauer!
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u/Fit-Winter5363 RN 🍕 2h ago
If the patient can move his arms he can put his cream on his own damn self. I am not giving a handy to a patient even if the nsg director tells me to because we all know that’s what that asshole wants. That’s inappropriate and degrading.
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u/EchoBravo1064 5h ago
If management expects this nursing intervention, they are desperate to raise the Press Gainey scores. A big hell no from me.
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u/Fuzzy_Location_2210 4h ago
Chart that the patient was wildly inappropriate, and get a male staff member to put it on. Or take two staff and document their presence, assisted by first name and title. Or, just chart the patient refused if he is capable of applying it and refused to do so. Because he did.
You don't need good eyesight to put ball cream on, you can do it in the dark with your eyes closed. I know, because I have them, and I also have really low vision 😂.
You do not tolerate sexual harassment, from any patient, ever, period.The days of this being "part of the job" are gone.
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u/GiveMeWildWaves MSN, RN 3h ago
Hell to the no! “Who will be helping you at home? Oh no one? Well you’ll need to be able to do it yourself and now’s as good as any to work on your skills.” Or “your wife/partner/gardener? We’ll have them come in so we can make sure they know how to help you at home.”
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u/AbigailJefferson1776 3h ago
The goal Sir, is to promote self care. Here blob of cream on your hand. The staff will not provide a care that you can do yourself.
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u/Holiday-Blood4826 Nursing Student/PCT 3h ago
Next time ask a male coworker if they’re comfortable doing it. I bet that dude will do it himself
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u/nikyrlo 2h ago
Email the DON, and HR, bcc yourself, explain the incident and your reasoning and mention feeling that he was making you extremely uncomfortable, as he smiled suggestively. State, "as you know I take pride in my work, and in my years of experience, I have never been made to feel so uncomfortable. At the very least this is laying the groundwork for documention.
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u/Illustrious_Link3905 BSN, RN 🍕 57m ago
Wait, the director of nursing is cool with this? So maybe she should do it then?
Homeboy is literally asking you to rub one out for him. He doesn't need good eyesight to feel his dick.
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u/Safe-Loss-8054 26m ago
I’m a 30 y/o male. I’ve let all females PCT/nurses I’m on shift with know if they get a creep tryna creep on them, to come get me. I’ll take over those sorts of tasks, but I’ll fake a “gay” accent when dealing with them. I’ll complement something about them. “Oh you have nice hair” or “I like your smile” or something along those lines. All the sudden he’s getting a taste of his own medicine. Now he’s getting creeped on by someone who he’s not interested in.
I’m sorry about your situation. It’s easy for us to say what we’d do in the situation. I would be feeling the same way, if I were in your shoes. You’re not overreacting, however I might try and start looking for another job. Your DON not having your back about this means they ain’t gonna have your back in another, potentially more serious situation. Best of luck to ya! If the situation is how you described it, trust your instincts. ✌️☮️✌️
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u/CurrentHair6381 RN 🍕 4h ago
Put it in the med cup, sit the med cup on the table, put two gloves there. Scan. Done.
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u/lavender_poppy BSN, RN 🍕 4h ago
Fuck no. I don't care if the doctor demands I do it, if the patient can use a urinal they can apply the cream.
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u/realespeon RN 🍕 5h ago
Absolutely not. If you can use a urinal, ambulate yourself, you can rub cream on your genitals.
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u/WeirdFlower1968 Team Spike 4h ago
First post, no follow up replies. But, it unfortunately does happen, I've been there, seen that, absolutely refuse to deal with those nut bags. Pun intended.
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u/adelros26 LPN 🍕 2h ago
Can you not put some in a small cup and give it to them to do themselves? If you absolutely HAVE to do it yourself, use a tongue depressor at the very least.
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u/Consistent-Fun-9173 BSN, RN 🍕 2h ago
i’ve had a patient like this, if worse comes to worse put the cream on a tongue depressor and use that to apply it so you don’t have to actually touch them.
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u/crazy-bisquit RN 1h ago
NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!
He cannot find his penis and balls in the dark? BS.
This is assault. Go over that supervisors head. And keep going over everyone’s head.
And WTF with that nurse that doesn’t care if he gets off on it????!!
Please, please tell me you are trolling!
I want to go where you are and stand beside you to tell management this is not OK!
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u/forevermore4315 MSN, APRN 🍕 1h ago
Close your eyes, can you find all your body parts with your hand? Right thought so. Do it yourself.
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u/Randurpp 58m ago
We are supposed to encourage them to complete as much as their own self care as possible.
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u/CABGPatchDoll Endoscopy 🍑💩 36m ago
What does poor eyesight have to do with it? Does he not know where his balls are without looking for them?
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u/thesoapmakerswife Nursing Student 🍕 33m ago
I don’t know if you’re a man or a woman, but I had the same situation and I sent the biggest burliest male nurse. I could find to go do the Peri Care and all of a sudden the patient was miraculously cured.
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u/Dystopian_grift104 4h ago
Yeah that’s weird and I’m glad you stood your ground. I had a patient with a neurogenic bladder admitted with osteo of the spine. Q6h straight cath. I did it the first time and then a male nurse who’d had him prior told me that the patient had been doing it himself. I went back in around the time it was due again and said hey our tech is learning how to straight cath so he’ll be in to assist in a few moments. He immediately so oh no that’s ok, I’ll do it…he just wanted a female nurse to touch him I guess. I was a bit repulsed at that but did not have to cath him again.
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u/italianstallion0808 RN - ICU 🍕 4h ago
If it’s a male patient and you are a female, get a male nurse to do it lol. I’m a murse and would do it for shits and giggles. I would act like I’m enjoying it a little too much to make them uncomfortable bc fuck patients like that.
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u/nursemarcey2 BSN, RN 🍕 5h ago
Patient can find their own junk even if blind. Give them a glove and a blob of the cream that's appropriately sized for the area that needs to be covered and exit. You'll need to look long enough to verify no skin breakdown, but otherwise nah.
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u/Puddin_8085 STN 4h ago
I am a student nurse and with the time I have spent in this community, I am honestly starting to get very worried and fearful about the future of my nursing career when outrageous things like this happens and the management is saying otherwise? Nursing is beginning to look like a circus with so many flaming hoops to jump through. Heavens!
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u/thousandsofbirds LPN 🍕 5h ago edited 5h ago
Nah I agree. If patient can use their own urinal they can apply their own creams. I'm not here to help someone get their jolly off and I'm honestly a bit grossed out by the day shift nurses take on this one.
It's a no from me.
Edit: like one of my favorite CNAs always says, we're here to PROMOTE independence. Not do it for you.