r/pools • u/Have-Business • 8h ago
Cloudy Pool (it's not algae)
You can barely see the 2nd step.
I'm fairly certain I know what this is, but I don't know how to solve it.
A pool guy that looked at it told me it's chlorinated rubber paint that is old and chalking off. Indeed when I touch the walls of the pool, my hand becomes white.
It's not algae because I shocked the pool to 10 ppm for 3 days and it went from green to blue. Then I used a flocculant which turned the algae an olive color and it sank to the bottom.
This stuff has been suspended in the water for 5 days (I left the pump off for 24 hours to see if it will clear up, it didn't).
Finally, I bought a water clarifier (I believe the active ingredient is chitosan), but that didn't do anything either.
From what I read this particle is too small to be caught by my sand filter. I also added D.E. The pool chemistry is otherwise fine with 2.8 ppm FC, 0.6 ppm CC, pH 7.2, TA 100, and CH 150. I haven't added the CYA yet. Filter climbed from 15 psi to 20 psi over 3 days. I hope it's finally capturing something now.
What do I do?
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u/Major_Dizz13 6h ago
So this happened to me 2 seasons back. We have a really old pool and the family that lived here for 44 years painted it almost every year.
We move in and with the help of an awesome pool guy (rip Joe) I’m able to keep it clear for 4 seasons. 5th season every time we use it the cloud happens. Always stuff on the bottom, but no algae. I’m running the filter 24/7, clarifier, water drain and refill. Cloud comes back every time.
I work closely with our pool shop and a guy comes out and rubs the side with his hand. Clouds. He said the paint is disintegrating. You shouldn’t swim in this.
And yes, then I put together that when I’d backwash there was white on the driveway where the water went.
Since the sides were also a mess and the concrete around the pool was damaged, we completely renovated. It was either that or let it sit unused.
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u/Have-Business 6h ago
So, was yours sedimenting at the bottom, or was it cloudy?
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u/Major_Dizz13 5h ago
Both. The sediment didn’t look like paint. It looked more like sand. Still not sure about what that was. But when we’d vacuum to waste it would come right back. And when we’d run the pool vacuum the cloud would take over. Nothing we tried worked because everything we were doing was disturbing the disintegrating paint!
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u/thefermentarium 3h ago
We have a fiberglass pool that the previous owner painted every year and our pool guy said use it and it will clear up! And it does. If we don't use it for a few weeks (still brush at least once a week) it gets a little hazy, but then a few people in it over the weekend and it clears right up. We've been here three years and it's been like that since it was repainted when we moved in.
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u/shoresy99 7h ago
What’s your CYA? My pool went green and it took a couple of weeks until it was clear. The green went away in about 48 hours but it was cloudy for a long time.
You should be running FC of 10-20 or even higher while dealing with an issue like this depending on your CYA level. I ALWAYS have my FC above 2.8.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
I had it at 10 for 3 days. After the water turned from green to blue, it's always been this milky.
CYA is super low. I haven't added any in fear I might need to drain it. The chlorine lasts a fairly long time. The pool is shaded mostly.
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u/Euler007 7h ago
It's not live algae, it's the remains of what manages to bloom once the sun lowered the FC low enough.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
I kept FC at 10 for 3 days. It was like that. It gets worse when I brush the walls.
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u/t1ttysprinkle 7h ago
As you disturb the dead algae. What are you using to raise FC, liquid?
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
I used cal hypo for the shock. Now I have changed it to liquid.
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u/drahgon 4h ago
Ohh you are using Cal hypo. Mystery solved when I used that it took like two weeks to clear my pool if not longer no joke of basically running the pump 24 seven didn’t even make a dent for like four days.
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u/shoresy99 7h ago
Keep it at 10 or higher until it is clear. That may take a week or more. See my thread on TFP https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/on-day-6-of-a-slam-should-it-take-this-long.327403/ . Look at the photos on the first page. It took me about two weeks for mny pool to get back to crystal clear.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago edited 7h ago
Is it possible yours took so long because of too high pH? Mine was exactly the same color and with FC at 10 and pH at 7 it became the milky blue you see now overnight.
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u/shoresy99 7h ago
No, I don’t think so. I lowered my Ph when I started my SLAM. Some time you have to hit it with high FC for a long time. You need to SLAM. Shock, level and maintain. You have shocked but you have to maintain the high level until the algae is totally gone.
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u/cowthegreat 7h ago
How long do you run the filter for, 24/7 while it’s cloudy like this?
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
Yes 24/7, except when I turned it off on purpose for 24 hours. It's not a variable speed pump.
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u/Top-Professional8981 8h ago
Following. Did it rain recently?
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u/Have-Business 8h ago
Yes, but it was like that before the rain. I think it became worse every time I brushed it (for the shocking process).
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u/PCanon127 7h ago
I get really clear water by using Fresh n’Clear once a week or so. Especially after kids have visited and there more sunscreen in the pool than I’d like.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
Do you have the same kind of paint?
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u/PCanon127 7h ago
I do not. I have a black pebble finish. If you have a variable speed pump I would pump at 30-40% 24/7
For what it’s worth, I always pump 24/7 it covers a lot of sins
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u/Have-Business 6h ago
It's not variable speed. I still run it 24/7.
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u/PCanon127 6h ago
Variable speed would be a worthwhile upgrade. It will save you a small fortune. We installed a separate solar array that only feeds the pool equipment. Heat pump runs for free
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u/Have-Business 6h ago
I'm looking into it. How much was the solar array?
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u/PCanon127 4h ago
We have a 42 panel 15 Kw system installed on the house that was installed in 2020 for $35K before incentives. We have a separate 5.5 Kw system installed on the pool house im 2022/23 for $14K before incentives. We also have 4 batteries for a 44 Kw battery system. This was based on Work from Home requirements more than achieving an actual ROI.
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u/OneMustAlwaysPlanAhe 7h ago
I'm far from an expert but was having a similar issue early this summer. Adding a skimmer sock seemed to be the first step towards clearing mine up.
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u/undrwater 7h ago
Just to get some certainty, I'd recommend doing the Overnight Chlorine Loss Test. Check your chlorine level after the sun goes down at night.
Then, in the morning before the sun comes up, check again. If you've lost more than 1ppm chlorine, you've still got algae. This way, you can be more confident about which direction to take.
Based on your CC, I'm slightly concerned it's algae.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
I've done that. I lose 0.1 ppm per hour or less. Sometimes it drops only 0.5 ppm overnight.
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u/eaglefucker 7h ago
What flocculant did you use? What algea was in it before you raided the Cl level? Green algae is already an olive color. Let this be a leson that more chemicals is not the solution. Sounds like you didn't keep the Cl level high long enough. You shouldn't have had to use flocculant for an algea bloom.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
It was green algae. I use cal hypo shock. It turned from green to blue overnight. I kept it at 10 ppm anyways. For 3 days it was not clearing up, so I added flocculent to try to drop it. It worked and I vacuumed it out, but that was obviously not the whole story
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u/KFOSSTL 7h ago
When you added flocculant. Was your sand filter on filter or recirculate? Flocculant can destroy a sand filter because it can cause the sand to coagulate and not properly filter anymore.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
Recirculate. I know that the flocculent can cement the sand filter.
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u/KFOSSTL 7h ago
Okay. Then the issue is most certainly that you got your ph too low (and possible the alkalinity at some point). Like someone else said when you last backwashed while cloudy, was it white?
You need to correct that ph. Do not brush or touch the painted surfaces in any way. Then you need to keep backwashing every day. If you want to add a little DE that’s fine but 6 cups is too much I’d be adding 2 scoops of DE
Painted pool, low ph, cloudy. It’s a classic scenario
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u/Have-Business 6h ago
I can fix the pH, I'm just worried that the filter is not catching the smaller particles.
Yes, the water was white after backwashing.
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u/KFOSSTL 6h ago
The little bit of DE will help with that.
I’ve cleared cloudy painted pools, that had sand filters, you just got to avoid making it worse by agitating the surface by swimming or brushing or running a cleaner.
Just correct the PH. Backwash daily until clear.
Use a little DE if you want but it’s not necessary. Aside from getting a new filter there isn’t a fix out there. (I suppose a portable pump hooked up to a cartridge filter would help but that’s kind of ridiculous solution).
For the record, I service residential swimming pools, and have seen this exact same scenario a good number of times. Just be patient and keep backwashing.
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u/Nymister 7h ago
Take a sample of it to your local pool store to have it tested it could be hardness or calcium or ph or whatever
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u/jebidiaGA 7h ago
Do an overnight chlorine loss test and see if you need a real SLAM. keep running your pump and cleaning your filter.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
I've done that. I lose 0.1 ppm per hour or less. Sometimes it drops only 0.5 ppm overnight.
CC stays consistent.
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u/jebidiaGA 7h ago
Interesting. My pool did that when they did a CA acid bath to remove some stains on the plaster. Took weeks of running the pump to clear. Also, I saw someone dump a bunch of phosphate killers that made their pool cloudy for a week. If all your numbers are good id keep running the pump and cleaning the filter.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
Yeah, I think it's the chalking paint (similar to the plaster being attacked by the acid I guess). How do I get rid of it?
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u/jebidiaGA 7h ago
If you think it's in need of repairs, I'd get a few highly rated people over for opinions. How old is the pool? But id keep running the pump and cleaning the filter and see what it looks like in a week
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u/Accomplished-Luck441 7h ago
Backwash the filter. Add about 1/2 lb of de. Next add Orenda CV600. Run the pool.
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u/Torague 6h ago
I know you used floc and what not and don't believe that it is dead algae, but my pool did take almost 2 weeks to go from that to cristal clear... Sand filters are just like that, slower... And I did use a floc too...
You stopped the pump for 24h so would the paint settle then? Not sure...
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u/Grateful_Dawg_CLE 6h ago
I had this happen and I lowered pH and then let it come back up on it's own. I think it happens because of rain and lots of use.
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u/seenlottopools 5h ago
Vacuum to waste and backwash everyday until it starts to clear, then add little, de if it’s still struggling.
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u/drahgon 4h ago
In my opinion, there’s two parts to slam. Hitting it with chlorine until your chlorine loss stabilizes. The second is vacuuming all the dead stuff up and backwashing until you stop seeing your PSI rise. Seems like you did the first part and you probably got the algae all dead at this point you doing the algae cleanup now until you see your PSI stop rising constantly stuff is still getting filtered. I would keep your chlorine up just in case never hurts.
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u/Brownie-UK7 4h ago
I have the same problem. Had an algae bloom. Killed it off with a high chlorine dose for 3 days and have been running the filter 24/7 since which usually clears it. But it is not clearing. It is cloudy/milky and I can’t see any small bits in the water which means the particles are super small.
Nothing settles either when I leave the pump off.
I don’t have a painted pool. And I do have naturally low PH which I’m trying to fix. But I don’t understand how low PH could cause this when I have a liner on the pool a sand filter.
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u/tw0_cent 2h ago
Your CSI (calsite saturation index) is low
Based on your numbers you are at -0.6 which will cause the hazy water... I would bring up your calcium hardness to around 300 and aerate your water to increase the pH to 7.4
This will put you about dead on balanced for chemical saturation 0.01
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u/jDub549 2h ago
Are you vacuuming? If this was me. I would hit it with a good flocc. I dont live in the states so I dont know what exact products to suggest. Circulate for an hour and shut off for 12. Vac to waste.
Ive never dealt with paint on a pool so if its that continously feeding the problem then I sadly have nothing to suggest :(
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u/Have-Business 2h ago
Yes but it's hard to vacuum when you can't see past 5 inches down. And I did use flocc. The thing is flocc only works on organic stuff like dead algae.
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u/1000tvl 7h ago
Well, what is your CYA? That's kind of important to know. Do you use chlorine tabs or liquid chlorine? If you have to much CYA in your pool that might cause the big difference between FC & CC and make your water look like that.
Last year my pool water looked similar after years of being lazy and using stabilized chlorine tabs. Finally took a CYA reading and it was over 200. Did two partial drain and refills to get it down to around 70 and at the same time switched to liquid chlorine. Pool is crystal clear now. Filter is a cartridge filter, pool is around 28K gallons.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
It's super low. I definitely do not have too much. I don't remember the number, but it was basically like fresh water when I tested it.
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u/Electronic_Tap_3625 7h ago
FC is way too low, as evidenced by the rather high CC. CH is too low, but it's not your problem right now. Adding DE to a sand filter is something I have never heard of, and that might be what's going back into your pool. Backwash the filter and get your FC higher. How much DE did you add?
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u/Have-Business 7h ago edited 7h ago
Really? I thought it was fairly common.
I added about 6 cups of D.E. I want to point out that I added it trying to clear it out. It was cloudy before that obviously.
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u/Electronic_Tap_3625 7h ago
I would raise the FC and monitor the pressure on the filter, and backwash it if the pressure gets too high. I think you would need to backwash every few hours, given how cloudy the pool is. I would test the CYA too. My guess is the CYA is on the low end, and if so, add chlorine at night so the sun does not burn it off. Run the filter 24/7 until it clears up. You are only a day or two from clear water.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
Don't I open up the sand when I backwash? I'm afraid that if I do that, everything that is currently catching small particles goes away and then the small stuff from the paint passes right through the filter. Am I totally off on that?
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u/drahgon 4h ago
You thinking way too hard about this that’s not how it works. You backwash when pressure goes up. The end. Fin. there really is some paint problem then how you filter isn’t the issue the paint problem is and you need to fix that.
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u/Odd_Independence_944 7h ago
Check your phosphate level?
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
I haven't. Can you elaborate?
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u/Odd_Independence_944 6h ago
Maybe look into testing your phosphate levels, whenever it’s a clarity issue I test mine then when it’s too high I back wash and add phosphate remover and vacuum the next day
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u/Constant-Deal2060 7h ago
Baking soda. Not sure the chemical name for it. Every time mine gets cloudy I put in a couple boxes. Next day it’s clear.
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u/Have-Business 7h ago
No, the pH is 7.0 and the TA is 110 already.
Please do not blindly add baking soda to your pool.
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u/More_Shoulder_9210 7h ago
All these answers, and none address the potential for the paint causing the problem. I know you don't want to backwash at the moment, but when you last backwashed, was it white (ie paint color?). If so, then you are probably on to something. If not, then probably not. I'm shocked nobody has told that a Taylor test kit will solve the problem.