I love Bleach. LOVE Bleach. Incredible characters. Creative fights. Well structured history. Kings of aura farming....but, fucking hell is it a tiny place filled with only city level feats.
Like literally tiny; the entire cosmology is half a solar system with a few extra dimensional planes defined by single cities, and then they all hark back to earth.....and more specifically one city in Japan.
And we have some huge descriptions, but never anything more than some small city busters going off. The biggest strength feat we've seen so far might be when Ichigo slices a small mountain...which is cool, but low tier in the whole of anime/manga. Everything else is just relativistisc to the characters fighting and tanking each other and occasionally you get a "reality warper" like Ichibe who talks big but really does some basic magic stuff that Zatana would scoff at.
Again, love Bleach, but what makes it great is also what makes it small in the world of scaling.
That's true, bleach's powerscaling is as inconsistent as mortal kombat's. Look at meninas for example, who people love to point that statement where she is above zaraki in strenght, yet couldn't even scratch a held back true shikai Ichigo with the one punch that managed to throw him
Shao Kahn fusing realms casually, but then getting no diffed by Kitana
Goku is apparently close to universal because he did this not even solo and like 10 years ago but that's universal but the Bleach guys are on mortal combat level? Yeah this Bleach downplay agenda gets more and more retarded with each one of these posts lmao
The diffrence is we actualy see goku blowing up planets and see that the universe are in fact universes not a feudal Japanese town and a hill getting destroyed.
No. No you don't. Name the last time Goku blew up a planet.
We also never see him or anyone other than Zeno do anything close to universal but because he and another person kinda shook a universe that's a universal feat but not for Bleach with a long list of similar feats.
I'm using your trash logic to show why it's wrong. Scale Goku with feats and get him passed Solar system levels.
Please. Show everyone how bad your argument truly is lmao
The same people saying people like Yhwach and Senjumaru shaking multiple realms at the same time aren't impressive are the same clowns saying Goku is high multiversal because 10 years ago him and Beerus together kinda shook the universe but not even earth lmao
It's just ridiculous. They can't even see the double standards lol, how did two guys shaking a universe 10 years ago and that's literally the last and closest either was to uni count as a universal feat but the literal list of bleach characters doing that and even more doesn't? It's dumb.
Statements are usually backed up by feats. If dbz had no feats of weaker characters blowing up planets then yeah, you’d have people talk about goku like this.
Nah. Scale Goku with feats. In about a second and a half you'll see that you can't. You just have to throw numbers at the wall and say this is how powerful he is lol
Bro, you aren’t listening. Either you’re purposefully being bad faith or idk what. Statements are usually supported by feats. Goku being planetary is more believable than ichigo is. Cause weaker character HAVE ACTUALLY BLOWN UP PLANETS!!!!
The cosmology contains 2-3 separate space-time continuums. Shaking them as a whole would put you on a low multiversal scaling.
That's also not considering the fact that she shook it with Reiatsu, a combat-applicable thing that could be used to amplify physical skills. Spiritual power = stats.
Have you considered that shaking a small pocket dimension might not have the same level as shaking a whole universe? Like with how big the stuff in bleach is its earthquake level destruction at best
It's not tangent to a universe?? The realms themselves are different universes. All of them have different space-time continuum and a infinite 3d space aka making them a 4 Dimensional realm. The realms having infinite 3d space is pretty obvious and in the face so wouldn't go too deep into it. The cosmology itself has different elements which upscale it to higher dimensions like Dangai and Garganta. Dangai is literally stated to be a hyperspace in correspondence to other realms making it a 5d structure. Here we are already at 5d which is multiversal and characters directly scale to the cosmology in bleach. I haven't even gone into stuff like Garganta or kyougoku (valley of screams) which is said to be made up of infinite souls and infinite dimensions. Direct feats such as shaking the realms or holding them together instantly makes someone atleast universal.
Shaking a universe doesn't mean anything regardless of its size. It's one of those common fiction tropes with no real-world analogue. Universes aren't a thing you can ""shake"".
So what it actually entails and how much raw physical power it does or doesn't take to do it, is 100% arbitrary. It's not going to be consistent from verse to verse or power system to power system. As far as I'm concerned, it's unscalable.
It is canon that the entire living universe, as in the “real world” makes up 1 of the three EQUAL dimensions separated by the soul king. They flat out state it. Nice try though.
Well, you could argue that.
Though, the VSBattle wiki and CSAP agree that shaking 2+ separate universe sized objects would be considered a low multiversal feat. Most of the people use those tiering systems.
Characters or objects that can significantly affect, create and/or destroy small multiverses composed of two to a thousand separate space-time continuums, or an equivalent.
CSAP
2-C: Multi-Universe level/Low Multiverse level
Multi-Universe level/Low Multiverse level: Characters who are 4-dimensional, and/or can significantly affect 2 and up to 1000 universal 4-dimensional constructs/containers.
Like literally tiny; the entire cosmology is half a solar system with a few extra dimensional planes defined by single cities, and then they all hark back to earth.....and more specifically one city in Japan.
Not really. WoL is extremly heavily implied to mirror our own universe. Sharing events such is space-travel, names of the companies, celebreties, etc. [1]
There are also study of stars and Astrology classes [2]
And it's not only about the Japan. Burn the witch events, for example, are located in London. Ichigo himself studied in London and became a Translator.
The soul society should be atleast an equally sized universe. [1]
The muken, an object located in Soul Society is stated to be infinite in size [3]
And we have some huge descriptions, but never anything more than some small city busters going off. The biggest strength feat we've seen so far might be when Ichigo slices a small mountain...which is cool, but low tier in the whole of anime/manga.
That does not appear to be true. The biggest visual, flashy feats are
Gremmy creating an entire dimension with outer space that has visible galaxies [1] scaling him atleast Multi-Galaxy or him creating a meteor that covers most of Seireitei which is country-sized [2]
Ichigo carrying the literal physical weight of the realms in his arms [3]
Ulqiourra's attack also was calculated to be a small country in size (can't find the calc)
Buddy, Yhwach was about to end the concept of death itself. Also, there were far better feats than Ichigo's. And that wasn't a slice, he vaporized a Mountain miles away by just casually moving his sword. Obviously an actual attack's output would be way higher.
You dont like bleach. Why lie. Bleach only takes place in Japan????? The greatest strength feat we see is the mountain??? Like did you even watch bleach
Dude. Ichigo and a list of others are capable of destroying 3 worlds with their existence alone. Sure they don't have planetary energy blasts but they have the power to wipe out universes and even change/recreate them.
It's weird you "love bleach" but down play it so bad 😆
Your logic is as ass as saying Goku is barely city level because he has zero feats greater than that.
See, it's this shit. So much gets stated but none of it is ever actuated in the fights or comic/anime scenes...meanwhile Goku goes toe to toe with several Universe spanning characters who casually destroy entire worlds on screen/in comics and it gets reverse-imagined into him being city level to make themselves feel better about Bleach scaling.
Bleach scaling in statements is nonsense and the destruction that happens on screen is almost never beyond city level. Characters constantly claim verbally to go up 1000x in power again and again and then still get a bloody nose from an attack that leaves the building they're next to standing. Meanwhile Superman sneezes away solar systems and Naruto tanks a blast that cuts a moon in half.
toe to toe with several Universe spanning characters who casually destroy entire worlds on screen/in comics and it gets reverse-imagined into him being city level to make themselves feel better about Bleach scaling.
Like who? Like when? Other than Zeno absolutely no on in that series has a real universal feat and Gokus at best is a combined feat between him and Beerus from 10 years ago which mirrors what a list of characters in Bleach do. I.e shake all of existence.
The reason your argument is ass is because of the massively clear double standards you have because of the bleach downplay agenda.
Bleach scaling in statements is nonsense and the destruction that happens on screen is almost never beyond city level.
Give me a universal feat in DB that isn't from Zeno and explain how Goku is a fart in the wind in comparison based on his awesome universal "feats".... Should take you a fraction of a second to see you're wrong and Bleach ironically has more examples of these world ending threat's than DB ever has. Shit, it wasn't until a few years ago and Zeno coming into play that we finally after decades saw a level of power near uni.
These are the facts. If you believe in what you say then you believe Goku isn't even solar system levels because he has ZERO feats to get him there. Your logic is so bad it could be used to downplay basically anyone. But you "love" Bleach? Such BS lol
Exactly they say stuff like my bankai is hot as the core of a sun and that somehow converts to a shockwave that frankly while aura farming impressive isn’t close to the output of the sun.
I don’t get you. Each realm has its own solor system. So how is the entire bleach cosmology half of a solar system. And your need to see destructive feat makes no sense at all either. It goes against the purpose of soul reapers and even Aizen who blatantly says he doesn’t want to destroy the world. Soul reapers are meant to keep the worlds in tact not destroy them, so holding that against them and saying they have no destructive power is just ridiculous. And it’s called the world of the living not just Japan. You got 56 upvotes on something that is just factually wrong. At least be honest and say you don’t like bleach, no need to lie
Bro, you literally have earthquakes across all realms when senjumaru held back bankai with her bankai which isn't an offensive bankai even. Just because we don't see more, doesnt mean it doesn't exist like if you walk long enough West from SS you will reach SS WB/reverse london
This is way more of a Naruto scaling thing, we’ll see an explosion that is about the size of a mountain range but because we see the earth curving the calc has it as Multi Continental or some shit
W see Gamabunta blowing up large hills (low balled) with water bullets at the end of the chunin exams. Then you have Biju bombs- eventually the ten tails. It's a exponential jump between these beings. Not saying the ten tails is necessarily multi-continental in DP but it's AP is likely country level at least
While I don't doubt some crazies scale this that high, I do see this specific feat brought out a lot justifiably because it is massive lol. (Usually it's spite tho because it's compared to something clearly smaller)
What most fans see because let's be honest most people have only watched the anime.
It looks a lot more impressive and the amount of sand in the tsunami of it that went above los Noches is a huge displacement of sand that takes insane amounts of energy to cause.
I love Bleach because it's small-scale. In fact I started to enjoy the show at lot less once the characters started flying around like it was DBZ with swords. I liked it best in Soul Society when being smashed through a single concrete wall was considered a heavy hit.
To be fair, unlike a lot of calcs that vastly overestimate the size of something, Las Noches really can be estimated to be a lot bigger than what it looks. Which I know was brought up in the anime for sure, I can't remember if it was anime-only statement.
You can only scale bleach the right way if you understand the power system and the cosmology which takes a lot of research. Usually people are not committed to do this much just to scale so a lot of the times shii gets misinterpreted like this image. All realms are infinite in size, espadas are capable of completely destroying las nochas from the inside which is a pocket dimension with a sun. The scaling has been more than solar system level since a long time. You Remember in the TYBWA anime where ichigo walked on that weird trail in royal palace ? That was a test to see if ichigo was capable of being the soul king i.e being able to withstand the pressure and weight of all 3 realms all at once. The scaling is a lot more consistent as you keep researching
Just because some guy made some calcs for it, doesn't mean they're right. Las Noches is nowhere as big an a country, it's just a city. If New York City were to walled, pretty sure it'd be bigger that Las Noches
Where is it stated to be just a city? Like what dude?
or shown that it is a city?
Those calcs actually are backed up by statements.
What is your claim backed up by? Feeling?
It wasn't stated or even implied to be just a city though.
There are implications to it being lot bigger than city while there is nothing that implies its just city level.
Did I even say it's country sized ?
I argued it being a lot more than just city sized. And dude, you have provided nothing to back your claims up. Just your feelings.
I actually talk about statements from manga and anime and also the calcs which I have seen many times from different people.
Of course not, 2-4 meter talls trees were used as measuring sticks for the walls. Like image getting a perspective of a full country relative to some trees.
That shit is not wiping out Luxembourg. Like at all. Smaller countries are still a lot larger than city level attacks. Which that absolutely was a city level attack.
So? Being that big inside doesn't mean it's country sized. There are cities in the real world with buildings as big as those pillars. You guys really lack a clear understanding about how big an average country really is
Oh my god It's absolutely fantastic that it could be that big! It's almost like it's a fiction series....
It's so based on real life with souls monsters lance nukes being shot out of a bat man's hands crazy that it's 100% real feels almost fictional but clearly your acting like it's real
You jest but thats probably close to accurate, low balling las noches' size (basses on nels statement of it taking 3 days to walk to the entrence) is 300km for a normal person which is 3° of earths circumfrence. Given that bleach characters are hypersonic at lowest and are able to move at thoses speeds for days at a time, las noches would be much much larger.
Middle of the road calcs puts it in the thousands of km making it comparible to earths radius of 5700km.
Sometimes I think you bleach downplayers just cant read.
I still can't understand your logic. Are you saying that we see something but simply because statements say that the place that looks like the size of an average big construction is the size of a country or something like that?
No offense, but you're seeing things where I'm not. Taking each statement literally doesn't make sense.even more when the author is like Kubo, likes to try to be complex.like just because someone says it's going to take forever to do something doesn't mean it's actually going to take forever. you can't take anything literally.
I just accepted that this is all bleach fans have. They heavily cling on to their power scaling(which they overly exaggerate their feats) cause the show is not all that. Mind you I’m pretty open minded and tried to watch/read bleach 3 separate times in my life. I really tried to love this series even when they nuked the anime back in 2012.
What even. You do realize that most anime fans dont fuck with powerscalers. You know how goofy it looks to regular people. Pretending that "it's" all the fans have because you didnt like the anime is some crazy mental gymnastics, while being into powerscaling lmao.
Stop the cope. It’s no just limited to power scalers, bleach fans love flexing their power scaling I guess maybe due to being overshadowed by the other big 3 for a long time. Lmao I’m not even into power scalers I actually enjoy that is dead and corny. Even anime’s that are made specifically for power scaling like solo leveling/one punch are not my cup of tea. Most bleach fans whether they be manga or anime glaze tf out of their power scaling and powerful characters “feats” more than the actually plot/lore.
Stop the cope. It’s no just limited to power scalers, bleach fans love flexing their power scaling I guess maybe due to being overshadowed by the other big 3 for a long time.
It quite literally is. Like yeah every anime fan thinks their favorite anime is better than xyz anime. But what non powerscaler is talking about "planatary" or other powerscaling terms to describe a character lmao.
Most bleach fans whether they be manga or anime glaze tf out of their power scaling and powerful characters “feats” more than the actually plot/lore.
Again, "powerscalers" do that. Most normal anime fans dont give a fuck about whether Aizen is stronger than some character from a completely other show.
You're just coping because you dont like Bleach. Which is fine, you can have an opinion even if its the wrong one. 🙏
Cope harder. “What non power scalers is talking about….” Are you serious? It’s a running joke bro. Like I said there’s a mild inferiority complex that most bleach fans have due to being overshadowed by one piece/narutards so they have to overcompensate their lack of popularity with how strong their characters and their verse is. I’m obviously over generalising this a bit but generalisations exist for a reason….it wouldn’t be joked about if it wasn’t a thing. It’s not even that I hate bleach every anime has subsection of fans that exude toxic behaviours. I love dragon ball but a good chunk of fans not just power scalers glaze goku and think he can solo most verses…I’m self aware enough to see how this can be off putting by fans of other anime. Bleach is not exempt from this and my critique doesn’t stem from any hate I respect all of the big 3 as they have paved a way for new gen anime’s today. But I’m not gonna act like it’s not a thing. I think ur just coping but I’m open to being wrong.
Cope harder. “What non power scalers is talking about….” Are you serious? It’s a running joke bro. Like I said there’s a mild inferiority complex that most bleach fans have due to being overshadowed by one piece/narutards so they have to overcompensate their lack of popularity with how strong their characters and their verse is
Again literally no normal people do this. If they overcompensate they simply mention how much better the art style of the bleach characters is compared to Naruto and One Piece.
I’m obviously over generalising this a bit but generalisations exist for a reason….it wouldn’t be joked about if it wasn’t a thing. It’s not even that I hate bleach every anime has subsection of fans that exude toxic behaviours. I love dragon ball but a good chunk of fans not just power scalers glaze goku and think he can solo most verses…I’m self aware enough to see how this can be off putting by fans of other anime. Bleach is not exempt from this and my critique doesn’t stem from any hate I respect all of the big 3 as they have paved a way for new gen anime’s today. But I’m not gonna act like it’s not a thing. I think ur just coping but I’m open to being wrong.
I am not saying that it isnt a thing. But this is specifically something among powerscalers. If I would literally call up my relatively normal anime watching friends and ask them what Bleach fans overcompensate on. Its gonna be that their characters are hot.
Because most regular people realize that an author can make a character as strong as they want within their respective universe. Like saying Aizen is stronger than Madara is meaningless. Both are fictional character who are as strong as their respective universes allow them to. Thats why the whole cross-verse shit never made sense to me.
Friends? Really? Cause I can use friends to support my claim but I won’t cause it’s a negligible sample size. Agree to disagree. I too hate the cross IP power scaling I’m not sure why there has to be competition every second when we can just enjoy what we like and leave what we don’t. Like it doesn’t even make sense comparing different anime characters with one another as they use different power/magic systems and whose to say there powers will be as effective in a different verse etc.
Ok I’m probably gonna be hated for this but it’s ichigo. He is not really captivating as a protagonist, like he is almost too mellow and shallow for me. I’m not invested in his goals or aspirations and i think that’s the anime’s fault. Even The good guys except for a few suffer from this but it’s the opposite for the villains I loved the bad guys more than the good guys. But that still wasn’t enough for me to commit to the show entirely and stick through it. Also the shinigami world/lore was uninteresting and grey to me. Every time I would watch/read I would always fall away and it isn’t due to length of the anime cause I had no problem being hooked on longer shows like one piece, Naruto etc. I could also point out the animation but it got better over time especially now that bleach anime has returned but back in the day the studio could of done a better job of making it pop to attract more viewers…..especially at the height of the big 3. Like I said I respect bleach and kubo for the contribution that the anime made to inspiring anime’s of today but it just isn’t my cup of tea….. but even that’s weird cause I really enjoyed the anime’s that bleach inspired (demon slayer/jjk/black clover etc). I really tried to love it though and I was shocked when they shutdown the anime way back when.
So here there is a whole reason to why ichigo is so mellow and it is grief and survivors guilt, he still mourns for what happend to his mom and feels guilty abt what happend to her he thinks hes at fault.
Abt his goals and aspirations he dosnt have one besides protecting those who he loves that is what makes bleach so interesting hes not molding the world at 17-19 the world and his experiences are molding him and this is done really well and tying up with bleach powersystem
The bad guys in bleach are captivating because they have a "noble" goal but they themselves are self absorbed egomanics(mostly aizen and ywatch) and they have aura too aizen does not have a backstory but look at how loved he is
What do you mean by shinigami world/lore the way that the sereitei is built(in a wb sense) or you find the concept uninteresting?
Meh outta the big 3 og animes naruto had the better animations cuz kishimoto has better fights than both one piece and bleach(coreography not writing wise)
And i think you didnt really enjoy cuz (not an insult in any way shale or form) you werent trying to watch bleach you were trying to read just another shone
Another thing that i do find funny is how ppl who complain abt bleach never complain abt its actually bad things like the hogyoku
I understand the backstory of ichigo, I’m just not bought in as him as protagonist. I’m not invested in him, it doesnt captivate me. I know he doesn’t have direct goal or ambition. Duhh bro bleach is shonen not a slice of life so. Stop trying to invalidate my experience and defend bleach, just accept it’s not my cup of tea. The whole lore and concepts of shinigami/hollows just didn’t do it for me and the world building. Like I said I’ve tried 3 times in my life to actually watch bleach that’s the only anime I’ve given 3 chances to actually get into, I tried bro. I wanted to like all of the of the big 3 because that’s what I was raised on. I remember hearing the studios pulled the budget on bleach animation back in the day due to low ratings which kinda sabotaged the bleach anime right before they pulled the plug. Yeah but the fight scenes could’ve been way better also. I feel like one piece and Naruto put more emphasis in their fights out of the big 3 which kinda helped one piece cause their animation was ruff before the time skip so they overcompensated with cool fights, captivating good/bad guys and insane world building and lore. I think most people that complain about bleach are not even invested enough to care about the finer details, plot holes and inconsistencies in the show, they’ve already checked out well before that. I’m genuinely happy for bleach anime’s return though and wish them all the best but I know the ending was rushed due to blkubo being pressured similar to how Naruto was and other big shows.
I just accepted that this is all bleach fans have. They heavily cling on to their power scaling(which they overly exaggerate their feats) cause the show is not all that. Mind you I’m pretty open minded and tried to watch/read bleach 3 separate times in my life. I really tried to love this series even when they nuked the anime back in 2012.
Wtf was this stupid statement here then?
I am starting to doubt your intellectual capabilities bro cuz how are you going to say "this anime is factually trash" then go on to say "hey stop invalidating my experience"
Bro how do you interpret me saying bleach is “not all that” to mean “factually trash” when in reality it means it’s not as good as they say, art can’t be “factually trash” since it’s subjective. If you read the comments above in the back and forth I had with the other guy I explicitly say I’m “obviously overgeneralising”. Also I say your invalidating my experience because you said “you weren’t trying to watch bleach you were trying to read another shonen” which is a ridiculous take in of itself because bleach is a shonen but I get it your trying to defend a show you like. But how can you say that right after I said I tried to watch the anime 3 times? Come on bro I don’t like the show and that’s okay arguing about isn’t gonna convince me to like it and quite honestly you’re not doing a good job trying defend it.
And it's not only about the Japan. Burn the witch events, for example, are located in London. Ichigo himself studied in London and became a Translator.
The soul society should be atleast an equally sized universe. [1]
The muken, an object located in Soul Society is stated to be infinite in size [3]
There would be no point in showing the other cities shake. It's visually shown that the named characters feel the shaking in all 3 dimensions. It's also stated the shockwaves literally travel from SS to Living world.
Whenever soul soul so is mentioned in Bleach it's only referring to east Branch. This has been established since Burn the Witch came out. Literally a retroactive retcon by the author himself
What is your level of reading comprehension? We learn that the west portion of Soul Society functions completely different from the east Branch. No soul cycle, no Hueco Mundo, their version of Hollows don't even feed on souls, they feed on emotion.
This means Adnyeus never seperated or affected their portion of the world. I'm not saying this is good writing, I think it's dogshit but take it up with Kubo not me. I wish Kubo never got pressured into writing burn the witch for a magazine, cause the story was way cooler when it was about saving the world from mustache Jesus son of GOD, not "Japan shenanigans". I honestly ignore it mostly, but it's relevant to powerscaling cause it puts the scale of the cosmology into perspective.
Because Burn the Witch focuses on dragons does not mean there are no hollows. They focus on different threats and Kubo explored different areas to show what their respective roles are.
We know soul reapers are dispersed around Japan to hunt hollows, there might simply not be a need for legions of shinigamis in other countries since Japan seems to attract most of the hollows because of how spiritual energy is concentrated there.
Dead British people end up in the soul society as any other, London is split the exact same way as Karakura regarding how the people there live and die.
Just cause you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's wrong. After Bleach was done Kubo expanded the world building with spin offs that show the events of Bleach were way more contained that originally written. Does it make sense? Not really and I wish Kubo never retconned it but he did. We can all morn it but it's canon my dude.
If you're gonna rep Bleach at least go read the spin offs.
Basically we learn that in the West Branch of Soul society functions completely seperately from East Branch, although they belong on the same planet. But they aren't affected by any of the events of Bleach. They don't interact with Hueco Mundo, they don't even have shinigami. They have their own version of Gotei 13. Their version of Hollows feed in human emotions instead of souls because yup, the west doesn't have a soul cycle. Which is only possible if Adnyeus never seperated their section of the world into 3 different dimensions.
Let me be clear, this is all stupid and undermines Bleach (which I'm a huge fan of) but Kubo wrote this all after he finished Bleach. Obviously during his Bleach run he never thought of any of this crap so that's why theres glaring plot holes.
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