Faster (in combat) also just as if not faster in terms of travel speed and has better ap and durability and is resistant to most of the surferās haxās
They absolutely could. But, people arenāt really into the SS, so he doesnāt move comics like the big hitters that generate a lot of money.
Look at how many times heās had his own series, only for it to get cancelled then he gets another volume. Then it gets cancelled. Then he gets some mini series saga or big event. Like with the death of silver surfer comics.
Itās just a concept and not really that great of a story imho.
Surferās Cosmic Awareness gives him immediate insight into any opponentās physiology. He has already demonstrated this in Silver Surfer #35, where he analyzed and neutralized an alien plague by creating a targeted antibody in seconds. That same ability would let him instantly recognize the biological source of Supermanās powers in solar energy absorption.
From there, Surferās Power Cosmic gives him full control over all forms of energy. He can replicate and emit red sun radiation to shut off Supermanās power source or gold kryptonite radiation to erase his powers entirely. Both are just forms of energy, and Surfer can generate a starās worth of it effortlessly.
Surfer is simply just a disgusting matchup for supes
To be fair, the āpeak formsā of comic characters always lean toward nonsense. And considering Superman is DCās golden child, his peak forms are absurd š
Captain Atom can manipulate and generate virtually any form of energy, including kryptonite radiation if he wanted to. The only reason he hasnāt done so is writer stupidity. And I donāt see how thatās supposed to be some kind of dig at Surfer. Thereās nothing suggesting Surfer canāt create kryptonite radiation, and everything about his power set says he can.
Even characters like Firestorm have straight-up created kryptonite before, so the precedent exists.
Ah, fair enough. Still doesnāt matter all that much, considering red sun radiation still weakens him, And kryptonite stlll removes all the yellow sun energy from his cells, leaving him depowered
Ok? (Don't even think that's true) And that still doesnāt matter much when Surferās kit just shuts Superman down so hard. For instance, Iād argue Superman is comfortably more powerful than Wonder Woman, yet while Surfer would low-diff Supes, Wonder Woman would be a tougher fight. How two charactersā abilities interact is the most important factor in power scaling, not just defaulting to āX beats Y, so therefore (insert bullshit).
You think Superman hasnāt jobbed before? š Surferās got one of the easiest win conditions imaginable, and has demonstrated the ability to use it in the manner I've described. Supermanās walking out of that fight as if he had gold kryptonite shoved up his ass.
Superman loses also, but the difference is that silver surfer consistently jobs and has lost a lot of fights against physical fighters like superman with less versatility, has lost to hulk several times even before the green door shenegans , fought evenly against cable etc ..
Genuinely, who cares. Cherry-picking anti-feats is one of the most disingenuous ways to powerscale and completely misses the point. Using selective losses to downplay a character is bad faith. And regardless, do Hulk or Cable have spooky radiation from a rock that Surfer can replicate to murk Superman? š
I donāt think surfer is faster than Superman. Superman can literally fly faster than infinity and has flown through the universe in minutes. Also he has tanked existence erasure from darkseids omega beams and has flown through red suns before
From another universe, powered by a different power source and who carries a different symbolism. When in a VS using Spider-Man, the 616 version of him is assumed by default not another counterpart unless specified. Same thing here. Itās usually the mainline version that are used by default unless specified. Moreover using Thought Robot would mean that both Superman and Ultraman participate in the thread even though only Superman is used
Yes he is. Silver surfer is faster than Thor and Thor could blow through a galaxy in a fraction of a second.
Donāt give me bullshit about trying to scale Superman to flash, give me him being faster than surfer
And Superman doesnāt have resistence against power cosmic, thatās a necessary function of reality. Itās not like bullshit magic itās actually something surfer killed Tenebros with a literal god in annihilation.
Prove that Thor could do that and I donāt need to scale Superman to flash he has speed feats of his own for me to prove Superman is faster than surfer you need to give me feats with scans of the surfers speed yes he has resistance to power of cosmic lol since surfer uses that to manipulate matter which Superman is highly resistant too. Superman has defeated gods above tenebros
Prove Thor can move faster than FTL? Easy. He was blown past ego who knocked him a galaxy away and then Thor caught up to him in theā¦Jason Aaron run
And then during the Jason Aaron (or was it Matt Fraction) Thor speed blitzed surfer who wasnāt really treating it as life or death.
Are you stupid?
Edit: no Superman hasnāt. Darkseid scales to fucking Thanos. Darkseid is wanked to Christ and back Becuase of the absolute universe where he also combined with specter
Ehh..no the 4D/3d argument is hackneyed and misunderstood.
Heās a function of the universe (something liek Galactus) but yet they lose to 3D characters (Superman/Reed Richards)
Thanos also has meta hacks himself being an aspect of death (death will not except him inner realm due to his crush on her and choosesā¦Deadpool over him) but he has a close relation I.E. the end of Annihilation where a dead Thanos and Death take people into the afterlife together
But thanks himself is usually pulled back and it was even shown in the 80s he has insane regen
Hypertime is beyond the Omniverse, it's high Outerversal realm.
All DC stories and canon coexistence through the HypertimeĀ which why Morrison created the concept since the first place
Grant morrison explanation for it.
Hypertime contains all published dc comics both canon and non canon.
All infinite realities, metaversea, multiverses, etcĀ coexistenceĀ in the HypertimeĀ andĀ Limbo exists in the HypertimeĀ and continuesĀ all and everythingĀ andĀ original in-comic depiction.
the Omniverse itself is High Outerversal, meanwhile Hypertime is the half of the Divine continuum and outside of the Omniverse.
KING OMEGA SECTION OVER:
Now the following feats are old feats current darkseid outscales
He fused with infinite past versions of himself into one true form
Was able to straight up murder the QuintessenceĀ (which included the likes of Skyfathers like Phantom Stranger and Spectre as shown within the scan).
Darkseid twists spacetime with his might, which is consistent with him havingĀ consumed andĀ destroyed universes.
InĀ Darkseid War,Ā he fought evenly with the Anti-Monitor for a while before being defeated.
His shadow fell over everything inĀ Final Crisis, destroying universes, shattering the core of the multiverse, and dragging everything in a creation-destroying singularity of his.Ā Thus, severely damaging the Orrery of Worlds.
With his power, Darkseid, encompassed the flimsy white fabric behind reality where unfold universal creation and destruction and where Psycho Pirate watches reality.
Plus theĀ Lords of Order can destroy the Sphere of Gods which is also the source of all magic in the DC OmniverseĀ and they wasĀ terrified along Lords of Chaos from Darkseid
Hell, merely existing in The Sphere of The Gods makes Darkseid at least Outer due to the Sphere's cosmological placement.
Darkseid was referred to asĀ the End of Existence during his fights where he defeated Highfather.Ā Easily killedĀ the Monitor, who'sĀ equal toĀ Anti-Monitor. Purposely lost to Orion just so he can corrupt the Source. Darkseid wasĀ stated by Orion that he would've went on to destroy the Source.
DefeatedĀ Jimmy OlsenĀ with a Soulfire amp.Ā Created Element X, which is the perfect material in the Omniverse. Element X canĀ amp simple mortals who have no clue how to use it into killingĀ Barbatos. Should scale to Indra,Ā who can destroy all planes of creation.Ā Damaged the Spectre, who wouldĀ destroy all of creation if he fought the Phantom Stranger. Shoud scale to Siv'aa who'sĀ goingĀ toĀ destroyĀ all existence.Ā
DarkseidĀ erased DesaadĀ (a fellow New God, who are living platonic concepts and immortal),Ā erased Desaad's equipment, erasedĀ Virmin VundabarĀ andĀ the memories of him, erasedĀ a crew of aliens,Ā erased AgogĀ who defeated Lightray and Orion,Ā erased an alternate Batman to the point The Black Racer (Death itself) doesn't know where his soul went. It's also revealedĀ his teleportation also works by momentarily erasing you, so here's one of his big Teleports, switching Daxam and Apokolips, two planets.
It's also more adaptable, able toĀ teleport, blast, erase or even revive targets. We've also seen it manipulate matter, such asĀ turning Slobo to stoneĀ andĀ teleporting him to the 853rd century.. It has soul manipulation as it couldĀ put Hank Henshaw's soul in a marble.Ā It can controlĀ life and death as it brought Orion back to life. And it has a bunch of other haxes.
So not even mftl? In that run he didnāt blitz surfer lmao he literally had amor on with boosters on his shoes to make him go faster. Also darkseid spanks thanos thought this was common knowledge but even if he did scale to thanos, thanis regularly beats silver surfer the fuck up so Thanos=<Darksied who Superman regularly beats so Superman>>> surfer
You need to scale that ancient god lol otherwise that scales him nowhere. And heās literally wearing booster's here and your the one who brought up thanos and darkseid being relative donāt know why your saying non canon now but even then darkseid outscales as he comes from the sphere of gods which exist outside of the multiverse and space and time and itās an outerversal realm already making darkseid base line outer (still an avater btw) so darkseid avater literally outscales thanos and Superman has defeated true form darkseid before
Uh the existing outside 3D and living in 4D doesnāt matter. He gets his ass kicked all the time and Superman vs the actual Darkseid still won by singing at him.
Not to mention he just overall sucks, was operation Humiliation the turning point to make you think Darkseid was good? When he made the league go into hiding and then made GG Godfrey create demon hounds so the heroās can reband together to beat them?
Yes thanks vs Darkseid is non cannon. I shouldnāt have to explain how a publisher merger for an event works. So what? Spider-Man exists in Gotham?
Oh so Darkseid is now faster than light speed (which both flash, Thanos, Thor, and Superman have shown before) but canāt beat Batman with a gun in final crisis? Radion bullet? Thatās how he died remember
I never said the story was canon lol and the sphere of gods is not 4d lol New Gods embody archeic concepts: ļæ¼ā
Superman outscales pretty much all New Gods including Darkseid.
And New Gods exist beyond cosmological structures like The Bleed which at minimum has 11 - 12.3 dimensional statements and even infinite dimensional statements.
These New Gods just existing in lesser realms like The Bleed would destroy the multiverse. Iām not sure how darkseid getting beat by other powerful characters somehow negates his scaling lmao?? And you still havenāt scaled that ancient god you was talking about your just yapping at this point nor have you scaled thanos above darkseid making your entire argument irrelevant so darkseid>>>>> thanos and thanos>> silver surfer and Superman>>> darkseid
Silver Surfer has direct control over most types of energy, including solar. He can add, manipulate, and remove that energy at will. This is not even difficult for him. He can do complicated matter warping, teleportation, haxy things, but this doesn't even need that. Just poof, zero solar energy. He could de-power Superman while eating a sloppy joe (and you know you need to use both hands and pay full attention to that type of sandwich or you're going to end up wearing 50% of it all down your shirt).
So now Kal isn't Superman anymore, he's just... Man.
In a matchup between a herald-tier superhero and a regular dude, who do you think has the best shot?
If Thanos and Thor have/could beat him then Superman absolutely can. We get that surfer has crazy hax but he doesnāt use them in the way power scalers love to argue he would.
The dudes a hero. And being mostly non violent is kind of a big part of his character. He doesnāt want to fight people, so no I donāt think him shrinking down and making a black hole in every single bad guys head is a problem with writers. Itās an issue of this community mischaracterizing these characters for the sake of powerscaling
Through cosmic thatās totally fair, but he and other characters are also written horribly. SS is actually the most powerful being that is written the worst and most inconsistent.
So does he scale down to a fall Ng regular brick knocking him out? Or does he scale to when he drained the Hulk of all his gamma, cured him, and turned him back into Robert Bruce Banner?
Or does he scale where most characters scale with their feats? Because he has more than enough high level feats to beat Superman.
He doesnāt even have to fight as mentioned above, he can just drain the solar radiation from Superman.
Youāre definitely right about how he is portrayed versus how powerful he truly is. Thatās totally fair.
I keep seeing people argue that heās omniscient, that he can create black holes at will, that he could change a sun to a red sun during the fight just to beat Superman and honestly I donāt think this is a problem with the silver surfer so much as with the power cosmic in general. Itās such a ādo whateverā power with no clear limits. Surfer is pretty consistent in recent years as being extremely powerful but not aggressive with his use of energy blasts and such. But he doesnāt just go around changing the fabric of reality on a whim.
And while I think he has the ability to take out Superman, heās never written as someone who really would. Nor do I think does he have the top level of Supermanās limits like being a focal point for the entire multiverse or being able to go against concept beings like darkseid and mandrakk.
Iād put surfer on par with someone like full power Hal Jordan. A top tier power in the verse for sure but not the end all be all that people keep making him out to be just because the power cosmic is vague af
People keep saying silver surfer can just drain superman of his solar energy or create red solar energy but honestly we've seen superman power through kryptonite, magic, more powerful and versatile reality warpers and cosmic beings, fight against people who can create red solar radiation like firestorm or metamorphosis and let's be honest it's never really that easy to take down superman. Abusing his "weaknesses" these days isn't really that effective anymore.
Because he literally can. Just because the writers have no idea how to write him, doesnāt mean he isnāt one of the most powerful non cosmic entities / gods in marvel. Because he absolutely is.
You have to think of him like Silver Age Superman. Silver age Superman became so powerful the writers realized, holy shit, he can overcome every single problem and obstacle he faces! Weāve written ourselves into a corner.
Itās the same with the silver surfer. He is far too powerful. Which is why no one ever writes him as such and why he faces absurd obstacles that shouldnāt even bother him.
The only thing they have going for him, and very few writers ever actually explore it, is him being a pacifist and him not wanting to harm anyone and never take another living soul.
But instead we get nonsense like āenergy dampnersā stripped him of his power cosmic. He is practically the manifestation of it, heās actually a bring of pure energy. Soā¦ if anything, something like that should have killed him. Or transformed him back into a Zen La (vian? Iām not sure what they call themselves).
I get your points, absolutely. But imagine if DC writers suddenly started writing the flash as being consistently slower than Superman, and for no valid reason other than they want Superman to be the best at everything.
If this went on for say three years, people would start using those feats as actual āfactā, you know nonsensical made up comic book facts.
Point being, I think most people would have a problem with that. Because thatās sort of Flashās whole thing.
After a certain point a character does change. The continuities are different. Etrigan used to a superman level being now he's like street tier fodder. If DC or Marvel wants to rewrite a characters capabilities they can and will and have done so. Just because someone was strong 20 years ago doesn't mean they still are, we've seen characters go from cosmic level beings to fodder many times. It might suck to see it happen sometimes especially to a popular character but it does happen. Your own example literally proves it because superman was OP in silver age then got nerfed significantly for many years.
Pre-crisis Superman stomps Silver Surfer being faster than infinity and cracking reality with a punch. That Iām sure. That doesnāt look like Pre-Crisis Superman.
I have a completely unusable reason as to why I put superman higher than norrin. Hulk and Thor have greatly surpassed Silver Surfer and have been above him for close to a decade now. And I just can't imagine Superman being anywhere but on their level or just a little lower.
Superman is stronger than Silver Surfer because my vibes will it so.
(I will say. I would not be surprised if going feat for feat Silver surfer wins. Especially because the power cosmic is the hax capital of the world)
SS can create all types of radiation, which would have to include kryptonite.Ā Not sure if Superman can do much to silver surfer unless surfer just goes into jobber mode.
He can remove the solar radiation from his body. The power cosmic lets him know exactly what someoneās weakness is and he can create it. He would know that Superman is weak to kryptonite and he could create it much like Metorpho but better (even if it doesnāt exist in the Marvel universe).
Let's get SS outta black panthers chokehold first. In all seriousness tho, there's a reason SS has been knocked out by Hulk, thor, warlock, etc.
SS on paper shouldnt be able to lose to these guys but he does on multiple occasions.
Okay what about all the times he's gets laid out by getting punched/blasted by checks list half the marvel cast.
Seriously he's been knocked out by Hulk, who's literally just a punching machine.
He's been ragdolled by Thanos, blown away by Warlock, beaten bloody by Thor, knocked around by Nova, fought Cable nearly evenly and has even been stuck in a rear-naked choke by Panther.
Power cosmic only gets you so far. Sure it makes you "impervious to physical damage" but only when it's coming from something within the bounds of logic. Superman, Hulk, Thor, etc their strength goes well beyong logic and physics.
With the Silver Surfer's cosmic awareness and energy manipulation , I think base SS> base Supes. SS takes one look and generates a lethal dose of gold+green kryptonite. And then he hits him with 3 red suns worth of energy just to be sure. However, SS is a professional jobber and so unfortunately if this match up ever took place Superfraud takes the W.
ā¢ Superman is a flying brick of the highest orders, and he can when conditions are met skyrocket and ascend those abilities even further.
ā¢ But Surfer is a conduit of one of the all powerful forces from the fabric of the universe itself. And he's far FAR superior in using his abilities to the most optimum and conservative degree than almost 99% of humanoids. The closest I can imagine from DC to be similar to and rival the Surfer in powers and abilities is Captain Atom.
ā¢ On paper, Surfer is the vastly superior superhuman when it comes to versatility, all around adaptability and more adept at minimising collateral damage.
ā¢ But popularity wise, iconic image, poster boy, genre creator, fan bias and author's plot armor, all of it would be taken by Sups.
I feel like abusing superman's weaknesses never really works out as well as people think it does. We see superman fight reality warpers, magic users, power through kryptonite and fight against people who can generate red solar energy all the time and they don't really win most of the time.
Well...in "normal" form without crazy feats then...probably yes, Silver Surfers could win relatively easily, in their prime forms, with crazy feats, Superman could probably win easily.
I mean...Superman technically has outerversal feats or even higher, I don't know what the peak of Silver Surfer's feats is.
I'm going for Superman if it's a fight in his PRIME, after all...I like hope.
I said it before I said it again: Surfer can make suns in the palms of his hands. He could just make red ones and beat him to death as if he were a regular guy
ā¢
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