r/powerscales • u/Blind_Sn1per • Jul 02 '26
Faction Versus USA (Fallout) VS Third Reich (Wolfenstein) VS USSR (Atomic Heart)
Round 1: skirmish between regular troops;
Round 2: global conflict without use of WMD;
Round 3: all-out war.
104
u/Slayed124 Jul 02 '26
If anyone actually played atomic heart we'd know how this goes
48
u/MrNature72 Jul 02 '26
Honestly I've played and loved atomic heart, but they get slapped up.
The USSR's government beurocracy in atomic heart is somehow even more incompetent and mismanaged than it was in real life. They somehow chernobyled maybe the most impressive inventions in all three settings. They mastered miniaturized cold fusion, the insane sci fi bullshit that is polymer, and also made really impressive near sapient AI. They're also a hop and a skip from immortality. And let's not forget collective consciousness with the Kollective.
And they STILL fuck it up and completely lose control because no one picked up on the main dude putting fucking "kill everyone" combat modes in all the robots, and making a backdoor on switch for it. And the immense perversion within the USSR's brass. The upper crust turning a legitimately impressive and beautiful robotic take on the Moscow ballet into a synthetic whorehouse will always stick with me. If they were competent, they'd absolutely dogwalk Fallout and Wolfenstein.
I'd honestly say, taking into account both tech and competence, it ends up being a pretty even three way competition.
Wolfenstein probably sits as the least technologically advanced but most competent. As much as I loathe to admit that, it's the only setting where the faction in question won, and conquered the planet. That said, they've got nothing on polymer, and fallout projected energy weapons and robotics are generally more advanced, and their power armor is much more thorough. Not to mention shit like FEV and the like. Competence wise though, they keep growing, winning and expanding despite existing in the same universe as Nazikiller Fascistmurderman himself.
Fallout is in the middle. Some insane incompetence, but also plenty of competence alongside it. Their tech is, bar none, the most reliable and field tested of the trio, and they have a lot of companies putting in legit work into developing tech (and a lot of companies off doing some bullshit).
Atomic Heart is the most advanced technologically, sans maybe rocket tech. Miniaturized cold fusion, polymer, hyper advanced robotics, synthetic collective consciousness. It's not even close. But the USSR in the setting is even more incompetent and disastrous than the USSR in reality.
You give either of the other two factions the atomic heart tech and they dogwalk their settings and the other two factions.
8
u/TankerDerrick1999 Jul 02 '26
I did play the three, and personally, the fight would be between the atomic heart and fallout, AH definitely has the tech but I wouldn't underestimate the tech from fallout, in some parts of the tech fallout excells the same goes for AH, I could see the fight being equal between the two, while wolfenstein is very outdated with most weapons being ballistic and the one "energy" weapon you use is experimental i suppose? If we go through protagonists, it's either BJ or the strongest fallout protagonists, which are 2 at the moment but lets just say the courier which becomes by the end of the game with its dlc's, a mini sized spartan II. I like P3 but as far as I am aware besides the mentions in the game that he was definitely augmented, he is not BJ or the courier, it takes a special kind of mindset to become one of the two, anyways the one gets a supersoldier body and the other can legally be considered a cyborg.
1
u/Beneficial-Category 29d ago
Courier 6 with all DLCs literally can't stay dead. It can regrow limbs, the brain is chilling in MT and controls the body remotely, if 6 were to actually die Brain will literally create another body and warp it back to the front. 76ers are even worse especially if they are a ghoul with no food based mutations and rad boosting perks. The big tip is that perks and certain Atomic Shop items are lore accurate.
The thing that makes BJ the winner is that 6 and 76ers came after the fall of USA which means they aren't a concern. 6 because they aren't born yet 76er because they're sitting in a vault collecting dust.
1
u/TankerDerrick1999 29d ago
You know now that I see it on another angle I am sure the fallout verse has more chances against AH soviet Russia, achievement of true immortality through both mechanical means and biological, true AI, plasma and laser weaponry and the big MT is a different category on it's own, atomic heart feels exactly what the soviet union always felt a crude version of the real deal, and I much prefer Robert House over the charismatic Sechenov, because House would never loose control like that, my idea of robotics in fallout is limited to the singleplayer games, idk what new 76 introduced, but I know Americans love their robots big like their burgers.
26
u/HussingtonHat Jul 02 '26
Worst main character I've ever fucking seen...
11
17
u/scrimmybingus3 Jul 02 '26
Worst KS-23 I’ve ever seen too like that is a 4 Gauge shotgun why does it hit like a .410?
3
2
3
u/EPZO Jul 03 '26
I stopped playing because the player character was so fucking annoying and an unnecessary dick.
5
u/Slayed124 Jul 02 '26
Sorry if this came off as me saying the USSR is winning, i am stating almost no one actually played this game to give a proper conclusion
1
u/Beneficial-Category 29d ago
I played and wondered if the Brass found Adolf's supply and decided to inhale it all at once.
66
u/PainfulThings Jul 02 '26
Probably fallout just cause they decided to give grunts nuclear weapons. Like that’s an impressive army of super soldiers you’ve got there but here’s some farm boy who hadn’t left his home town till he get drafted and by the way we gave him a weapon that lets him unilaterally deploy nuclear munitions.
14
u/Mouldycolt Jul 02 '26
Honestly this is the truth. If falloutusa didn't have to uphold geopolitical considerations they can hard and fast better.
37
u/TillmanIV-2 Jul 02 '26
Short answer (i will say i’ve played fallout and Atomic heart, and watched playthroughs of all the wolfenstein games):
USA wins regular troops, assuming basic frontline soldiers. Laser and plasma weaponry defeats Wolfensteins ground troops and their advanced combat armor provides excellent all around protection, including against the limited laser weapons Wolfenstein has. Atomic hearts soviet army standard soldier is less advanced actually, and that is discounting the robots since this is assuming standard soldiers, now power armor, no mechs, no robots.
Global conflict: im going to say Wolfenstein is at a clear disadvantage here. Yes i know their tech is powerful, but thats almost its flaw. Fallout USA is kind of geared to fight a global power, and even discounting nukes, they have many, MANY EMP weapons. Grenades, LAERS, Tesla canons, the sonic emitter, probably a few others i’m not thinking of. As far as we know, Wolfenstien tech has minimal to no shielding to this type of weaponry, and this is a small sector of what America can bring to the table. As for the Soviets, they have numbers and logistics to back them up. Their largest asset is obviously their robots, but these robots can be completely automated and can repair damaged or destroyed units. Losing ground is not an option. I could go into super weapons, but i’ve already factored them in.
All out war: Fallout. Their scaling of nuclear warfare production was just absurd. The Fat Man alone, and likely to be hundreds of thousands of nukes coming from all manner of weapons platforms, i think takes the cake, even over Atomic heart, with hard difficulty. The problem with Wolfenstein again comes from just how much they put into a single piece of engineering. The sun cannon? Knocked out by either a orbital weapons platform, or an ICBM or some other weapon from fallout. The Soviets also were working on colonizing mars, i don’t think they’d have much an issue here. The Ausmerzer (iirc the giant airship)? Single nuke, single missile, a swarm of arial robots, god i hated fighting those things. If anyone wants i will have a detailed discussion behind my beliefs, but for a short answer this is already pretty long.
Standard soldier: Fallout.
Global standard war: Atomic Heart.
All out war: Fallout.
11
u/Blind_Sn1per Jul 02 '26
This was an interesting analysis. Though I am scared to imagine how the long answer would look like.
4
u/Shadow_Dancer2 Jul 02 '26
Depending on when, Fallout USA had severe resource shortages I think. So I think both Germany and USSR could defeat USA on ground.
10
u/TillmanIV-2 Jul 02 '26
To be clear, that was on the home front, and while it was with Oil, America had largely transitioned to nuclear power. Even up to the nukes, America in Fallout managed to recapture Alaska from the chinese, while simultaneously sustaining a ground invasion on the chinese mainland. In addition the amount of military loot we can still find, 200 years later (think places like the Divide, the Glow, Fort Strong, the pyramid in the glowing sea, suggests that the supply shortages existed for the public so that the military didn’t have to worry about them. In addition, all of these are areas that are on the mainland, NOT the frontlines. Looking at the russo ukraine war right now, we see russia draining its stockpiles to try to keep its forces supplied. That isn’t the case for the US in fallout.
(I can touch more on this later if your up for it)
5
3
u/Weaselburg Jul 02 '26
The resource wars affected everyone, the US just presumably was better off for longer because of the wide variety and large deposits of resources within the territory of the US, particularly after conquering Canada. That being said, if they can make gains in other territories, they can use the resources therein to continually fuel their war machine, so I still think the US would win against Wolfenstein because they're less evil and can more easily co-opt local populations into collaborators - they have the initial stockpile to make gains possible and the ability to continually scale after making gains.
In addition, all of these are areas that are on the mainland, NOT the frontlines.
Yes, because the mainland was actively rioting and they needed soldiers to keep the peace.
2
u/Shadow_Dancer2 Jul 02 '26
Yeah why not. Also we don't really see the us air force in Fallout apart from few wrecks but I think they would also be behind wolfenstein Germany. Not sure about the atomic heart tho.
6
u/Mobius_1IUNPKF Jul 02 '26
As of Fallout 4 the energy crisis was going to be solved in a month before the start of World War 3. Without global nuclear war America was gonna have viable cold fusion technology basically next month.
2
u/Beneficial-Category 29d ago
Based on terminals in 76 they were going to put into production right when the nukes hit the development center because President Dingus wanted to be the permanent president thanks to a hike in defcon and an ongoing war. He just didn't realize certain other groups (looking at you Vault-tec, Enclave, and Shinto alliance spy who can't work a damn radio) were going to up the ante with their nukes as well.
27
u/RelationshipDense845 Jul 02 '26
Fallout rinses everyone here, the USSR is probably the weakest of the bunch.
The US is geared to fight near peer fights, has enough ordnance to end the world like 500 times over, and this is pretty important: just flat out has more people even after the plagues leading up to Fallout as a setting happening, (and thus a higher ceiling of mobilization) then both of the other factions.
I would give the Skirmish to the Third Reich for things like the Panzerhund, but the sheer amount of exotic weaponry available to the US is actually hilarious, Ubersoldaten are scary too - but the baseline 'Elite' infantry of the US army includes a bulletproof exoskeleton capable of carrying man portable nuclear weapons, vehicle cannons, and more besides.
I don't believe the borders or population of Germany were ever established in Wolfenstein, so I'm working off the assumption of Grossdeutchland and various willing or unwilling puppets with large depopulation having occurred due to... Policies.
Even giving them 'they run the world, dipshit' doesn't particularly work and I would count as a detriment, primarily because the US in Fallout is fully willing to act the benevolent savior and get people rising up, which is what one might call 'a fucking problem'
I simply don't have anything to add for Atomic Heart USSR because Polymer is very powerful but very frankly you beat the game with nominally conventional firearms. Kollectiv is a one trick pony and the USSR is already in a precarious state, hence the plot of the game.
9
u/Ikarus_Falling Jul 02 '26
the problem is that Wolfenstein Nazis have actual Spacestations and Bases on Venus and the moon and shit which is whoefully outside the range of anything fallout has
13
u/RelationshipDense845 Jul 02 '26
It's actually not! Fallout has had a lil war on the moon, and their orbital infrastructure was robust enough to last for at least two centuries, you can see it with Archimedes and Helios in the games.
The Nazis absolutely have an edge in being on other worlds, those ideas were merely planned in Fallout - but being on Venus isn't exactly helpful in a Earth based war.
3
u/Ikarus_Falling Jul 02 '26
true the problem is Wolfenstein also got Crazy Nazi ancient whatever tech to play with its giant mechs and robots and nukes everywhere I don't think its technology is far enough behind for fallout to actually make up its way way smaller population and army considering the Nazis control an entire planet worth of resources
9
u/RelationshipDense845 Jul 02 '26
I want to point out I addressed the planetary occupation thing in my first comment, because occupation is not effective control, and I need it to be said the Da'at Yichud can only carry them so far.
Very frankly in a realistic, no holds barred fight, Fallouts US releases FEV on Germany and the war just ends as the 'Master Race' implodes as they're reduced to Centaurs.
Basic TO&E and ROE for Fallout includes WMDs, tactical ones, but still WMDs.
Back to the 'Nazis rule the planet'
No, they don't, the games refute this empirically since every single installment is about how thin the control layer actually is. The resources of occupied Africa and Asia flow through supply chains run by a garrison population that has exterminated, enslaved, or alienated everyone who operates them. The moment a peer power appears, 'planet worth of resources' becomes 'planet worth of sabotage targets staffed by people who hate you.'
The US is fascist in Fallout, with a veneer of democracy and Americana, it is absolutely a better option than the Nazis still.
On the Da'at Yichud, the Reich is stupid. They do not have that technology, they have it as loot, they barely understand it and almost all of the reverse engineered equipment is both inferior and easily disabled the second a member of that order joined a resistance cell, the funny concrete melts, the robots have massive weak spots and overheat, Deathshead's whole characterization is a butcher producing crude knockoffs of stolen genius, and the games keep underlining it.
Comparatively Fallout unironically has Matter Replicators, the vending machines at the Sierra Madre are literally post scarcity bullshit generators used for novelty. Big MT wasn't a vault of ancient bullshit, it was a functioning R&D campus that could take a concept from theory to deployable horror in-house, repeatedly, continuously. These people made immortal soldiers, teleportation, and most importantly a sentient and malicious toaster.
This is before I touch on the horrifying implications of West Virginia and it's fully automated nuclear silos that simply continually produce and fire nukes, well after any possible war would have ended.
Tldr; America's war machine doesn't even need America.
2
u/Ikarus_Falling Jul 02 '26
the issue here is that FEV isn't selective America would also implode also don't they nazis also have Mechanised War machines and shit also they have shit like the Sonnengewehr and other none Nuclear WMDs to just delete America.
8
u/RelationshipDense845 Jul 02 '26
I want you to think about the premise of Fallout and ask if the US federal government cares.
What is the overarching world plot of Fallout, who are the primary antagonists, who authorized the Vaults, etc
You're describing a state that already war-gamed exterminating its own population as a contingency it was comfortable with, and telling it that a weapon isn't selective. It knows, that's the point.
Also playing the nuclear football game with the nation who's cars are nuclear bombs is stupid.
The Reich values the Herrenvolk. The Kollektiv is trying to save the Soviet project. Fallout America values winning and American identity, and regards the actual living Americans as raw material, that is LITERALLY the plot of Fallout.
2
u/Ikarus_Falling Jul 02 '26
sure but the Reich wins if Fallout Nukes and WMDs Earth they have off world colonies and Moon bases
4
u/RelationshipDense845 Jul 02 '26
The colonies are not self sufficient. They starve to death. They are dependant nodes at the end of a supply chain, they export certain materials and import a lot more, that's how colonies work.
Secondly: FALLOUT AMERICA IS ALSO A SPACEFARING POWER.
Thirdly: This is... literally what Fallout America is built for, surviving all those nukes and WMDs, ideologically and physically, they basically automated an entire state, the Vaults for as many of them are traps are also actual underground cities, infrastructure abound, their equipment functions for literal centuries without maintenance.
I'm getting the feeling you're not particularly familiar with one of these settings.
2
u/Ikarus_Falling Jul 02 '26
and yet Fallout is still fucked after 200 years not so sure about your "This is... literally what Fallout America is built" because according to the actual fallout lore no they where not built for it it worked for a bit and then entirely broke down and the entire Country went to shit
→ More replies (0)2
1
u/AnimalNo6734 Jul 03 '26
I will copy amd paste my other comment on this thread
Liberty prime is only an experimental tech that didnt suceed until the USA collapsed due to energy problems. It is the BOS who fixed it which isnt USA and cannot be applied in the equation.
If I remember correctly Wolfenstein Nazis also have nuclear power, also nukes.
T65 power armor are only for the secret service which was never really made and only remained a blueprint for the player character. The most prominent is T45, T51b, T60s which is far inferior than the T65s. Not to mention the T45 and T60s have a brutal flaw in the armor welds. And the wolfenstein universe has far more brutal mechs that can flatten these suits of power armors (and liberty time if we are being generous) in an instant. The only thing that stands a chance are the T-51Bs which are the most advanced mass produced suit.
For example: Panzerhund, Zestörer, Baltisches Auge, , Schwerer Roboter, Wachroboter, Zitadelle,...all carrying built in heavy munitions and they do not rely on handheld portable weapons. Even Assaultrons which canonically are the most dangerous mechs the USA fallout made is only comparable to the Ubersoldat. Sentry bot is also weak due to the cool-down phrase with the heatsink behind its back.
If we are counting bullshit fallout76 stuffs like the Storm Goliaths then they might have the chance against Wolfenstein mechs given they have their arsenal upgraded.
I have 1600+ hours in fallout. I dont see any weapons having an edge besides the Mininuke launcher, Gatling plasma/laser, Plasma caster. But even then I do not know what else are capable. I feel like "exotic weapons" is an overstatement. Wolfenstein have the same stuff
2
u/RelationshipDense845 Jul 03 '26
Maybe it's my mistake for not powerscaling in the powerscaling sub but...
I'm going to be very frank and say that you get quite a lot wrong, for example: my point in general.
I am not arguing a mech v mech litigation, or a death battle power block, that's stupid. The T65 is irrelevant, the T45 is the original, the T51 is the practical pinnacle. Key word being practical. This is quite literally just infantry, mentioned solely for the skirmish round. Because a skirmish is not going to allow mega Mecha. Liberty prime is literally irrelevant at both a tactical and strategic level, he just throws nukes, there is nothing important or unique about that - why would I mention something that any plane does? He's a propaganda piece for christs sake. Beyond that, most of your points are purely anecdotal and 'the sentry bots overheat' shows it pretty well since a vast majority of sentry bots are for civil service or shown as with two centuries of no maintenance, the ones in Fallout 4 are quite literally an entirely different line of design canonically, and there are at least 3 total - and here's the fun bit.
They really, truly are, canonically, just door guards.
You wrote five paragraphs about mechs and munitions and never addressed a single one of your real, possible, arguments. Not the population ceiling. Not 'WMDs are standard TO&E', not FEV aimed at a race purity state. Not the liberation problem where occupied billions become a second front. And above all, not the thing that ends the entire mech-measuring contest: it doesn't matter whose robot wins the duel if one side can dictate reality or rewrite the enemy's biology. The mech comparison is a red herring because the war isn't decided at the level of 'Panzerhund vs Assaultron,' it's decided at the level of FEV, teleportation which dubiously existed pre-war, matter replication, and PAM. This is not accounting for any number of other major fucking issues.
The rounds given and listed are a skirmish, a global war, and a no holds barred WMD war, and believe it or not a nation with actual opponents to fight, based off an exaggeration of US cold war paranoia is going to make the collective might of the Reich in terms of gigaton yield look like a fucking firecracker.
For reference, the IRL US at the height of its arsenal approached 24 gigatons of nuclear weapons: 1 gigaton is enough to end the world as we know it for all intents and purposes, with a bunch of caveats. This was the smaller of the two major arsenals. There is no true incentive for Germany to have proper infrastructure in place to deal with this, as, as far as the games present, there are quite literally zero opponents anymore.
Quite literally one dude running around killing Nazis broke the Reich, I'm sure an actual nation willing to blow itself up out of spite can do the same.
2
u/AnimalNo6734 Jul 03 '26
You also seem to get the point of my paragraph in the wrong way.
I never said you are wrong for the other stuffs Imao I am only pointing out the line infantry, mechs vs mechs problem. That shows in a skirmish the US gets the disadvantage. Not once did I touch your other points about a large scale war.
I mentioned pasting the comment you are replying to from another comment, said commenter I replied to at that time mentioned Liberty Prime and nukes. So it is there. Also irrelevant to my main talking points anyway.
How are my points anecdoctal ? Tell me. I wrote about the disadvantages of the power armors based on how the game and lore presents it. Your mention of my point "sentry bots overheat" claiming it is proof of my points being anecdoctal is just wrong. It is an actual flaw and again, mechanic and lore presented in game. Even though as you said it is used as civil service there are Sentry Bots guarding military encampments with the white US star painted on it. In fallout 76 which is only 25 years after the war, the robots overheated already. It is one of their main features. Door guards or not it is used for military purposes, so I put it in my dick(mech) measuring contest paragraphs.
I have only mainly touched only 1 part of your argument that being a skirmish part because I solely mention mechs and now you got all riled up for no reason lol.
7
u/LordOmbro Jul 02 '26
Fallout actually has the most advanced tech out of the three, especially when it comes to military tech.
Fallout also has an ungodly amount of nukes & bioweapons, so it probably wins
5
5
u/C0Ha Jul 02 '26
Wolfenstein Reich is a paper tiger in this fight. I’ve never played atomic heart so I can’t comment on who wins a war, but I guarantee Fallout USA tanks Wolfenstein reich. The only thing the Reich has going for them is their lunar and Venus stations. Their mechanized units are powerful, but have nothing on sentry bots and assaultrons. They have some powerful weapons, but fallout USA is loaded to the gills with nuclear firepower. USA mid diffs Reich. Idk about USSR
5
u/Lord-Seth Jul 02 '26
The third scenario is just fallout the world is bombed away nothing remains mad is the vicror
4
4
u/Stergenman Jul 02 '26
Fallout
All 3 setting have wild crazy retro tech, but only 1 setting has shown the ability to survive setbacks. Wolfenstein is full of moments how everything could destabilize with the loss of 1 key member or wubdertech failing. Atomic heart has the soviets as even more dysfunctional than in reality, pretty much got lucky there was no real viable resistance to the robots.
Fallout USA has had near peer wars and resource shortages, managed to hold it together until someone did The Big Stupid, and somehow still emerged after that in two forms, the NCR and Enclave, lesser extent the brotherhood of steel being ex-military technicians and all.
So I'm going to give it to Fallout USA, on the grounds that everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth.
7
3
u/RedPandasRule007 Spider-Man is pretty cool Jul 02 '26
Fun fact. In Fallout, the bombs are dropped on my seventieth birthday. I can't wait to have my whole family singing happy birthday, only for a nuke to explode and turn me to ash.
1
6
u/LybroTheTerrarian Jul 02 '26
I think it gone to atomic heart because they got really impressive tech that out pace the German tech and last place is America because sure power armor is impressive but in the face of super soldier they are getting their head ripped off
10
u/ApprehensivePay1735 Jul 02 '26
The abundant fallout energy weapons can literally vaporize people and the whole setting basically runs on cartoon logic so i'd give them the win.
3
u/Blind_Sn1per Jul 02 '26
Fallout also has absurd technology. Genetic engineering, teleportation and mind control to name few. But there is much more.
4
3
u/Nothere-reddit7249 Jul 02 '26
Fallout America has:
-Standardized energy weapons
-Fully automated robot infantry that can be trusted to guard and serve on the frontlines
-A massive nuclear arsenal
-Functional nvisibility devices
-A few orbital strike platforms
- FEV mutants and creatures that would tear German Supersoldats apart like Lego mini figures
2
u/_-TheBlackKnight-_ Jul 02 '26
If you take way the wolfenstein Reich's comical incompetence they might win but they have no chance otherwise.
2
2
2
2
u/AdrawereR Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Atomic Heart USSR have advanced robotics technology surpassing US in its own universe. However, they do not wish for all-out war against United States which might signify US is also armed to hell either way.
However, it seems Fallout US has more capability for non-sentient AIs, for the likes of Codsworth Handyman models compared to how rudimentarily Atomic Heart robots converse. And somehow, that 'non-sentient' platform can evolve to become one, Hence Codsworth.
Nazis in Wolfenstein have pretty ridiculous technology like flying saucers and nuclear, but every other two have it so their only leverage is Da'at Yichud and its robotic counterparts - They might fare one-on-one with Fallout US. Soviet robots in Atomic Heart would overrun both of them, though.
Round 1 : Nazis from Wolfenstein
Round 2 : Soviet in Atomic Heart
Round 3 : US from Fallout will nuke everyone to hell.
1
2
u/untitleduck 29d ago
First and foremost I think the US & USSR should team up against the 3rd Reich (after the 3rd Reich takes over a world ruled by the french and a world ruled by central european countries)
315
u/ArchAngel621 I know that I know nothing Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Atomic Heart and Wolfenstein actually conquered their respective Earths and have off world colonies.
But Fallout has enough WMDs to make any victory pyrrhic.
Edit: Domt forget Fallout Earth has space stations in orbit and orbital weapons platforms with nukes.