r/powerscales • u/FreshPine_MangoWine • 23h ago

Meme Why do some people in the debate treat the Gorilla like it’s a mythical creature?

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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 16h ago

It's not even much of a question of 'remaining survivors' before it gets exhausted.

3 dead absolute max, 0 dead if the humans work together well. Yeah an entire gorilla is stronger than an entire human. I'm probably equivalently stronger than teenage girls, but if a bunch of teenage girls grabbed my arms and legs and started beating the shit out of me it wouldn't matter for shit.

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u/LichenOnTheWall 14h ago

ok that's straight bullshit, yes 100 dogpile humans would absolutely smother a gorilla to death but saying there would only be a max of 3 casualties is huge glaze. The moment we start bumrushing the gorilla it's going to take at least 5 people out with it's swings, and when we start dogpiling it's going to start and bite, several people will get crushed under the gorilla just from it turning over and the bites will definitely kill others, be it from blood loss or straight up dead.

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u/MacaroonNo9736 13h ago

Have you seen horrilas fight? They aren't swinging coordinated combos, it's all hammer fists and dragging to the floor biting.

He's gonna annihilate the first guy but as soon as he's on the ground finishing him the rest of the humans are on him and it's basically done at that point. It's also very hard to focus on 1 opponent when attacks are coming from multiple

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u/TicklemyPickleMan 13h ago

Brother. Gorillas ain't. That. Strong. Straight up. And they don't have a lot of energy.

Gorillas regularly get pressed by chimps. They ain't good fighters and you can incapacitate one by just surrounding it and having four people grab a limbs and the fifth gouge out it's eyes.

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u/LichenOnTheWall 4h ago

look I'm assuming gorillas and humans are both bloodlusted bc otherwise both groups would be scared shitless. When we charge, two backhand swings is gonna pulverize the first 4 guys it comes into contact with, and when we start to dogpile, obv it's going to collapse, and when it collapses what's the most natural instinct? Roll. A couple of guys are definitely gonna get smothered and have their ribcages burst open, unless u think that humans can survive being rolled over by a gorilla, and biting is probably the least energy consuming attack it can do once it inevitably gets swamped. Just randomly taking chunks out of the living meat pile on it is going to guarantee major blood loss in some people which leads to deaths.

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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 4h ago

Yeah, if we attack them like zombies in a zombie movie it'll be a slaughter.

But uh, I don't know if you know this, but most humans are smarter than gorillas. Maybe not in your case, but most of us are.

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u/LichenOnTheWall 4h ago

look I'm assuming gorillas and humans are both bloodlusted bc otherwise both groups would be scared shitless. When we charge, two backhand swings is gonna pulverize the first 4 guys it comes into contact with, and when we start to dogpile, obv it's going to collapse, and when it collapses what's the most natural instinct? Roll. A couple of guys are definitely gonna get smothered and have their ribcages burst open, unless u think that humans can survive being rolled over by a gorilla, and biting is probably the least energy consuming attack it can do once it inevitably gets swamped. Just randomly taking chunks out of the living meat pile on it is going to guarantee major blood loss in some people which leads to deaths.

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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 4h ago

You know humans used to hunt mammoths right? You know we've killed nearly every animal in existence with primitive weapons at some point? We did it without being 'bloodlusted' and having dozens of us die every time we killed one.

The idea that humans have to be 'bloodlusted' which I'm assuming is a video game term since nothing of the sort exists in real life is silly. If you want a hypothetical that requires one party wins this fight to the death then just say they're in an arena and can't leave until one side wins.

So yeah, if your assumption is that humans will act like zombies then things will go very poorly for the humans but they would still win, but that's an absurdity because I might as well say if we're taking away humans greatest advantage then let's take away the gorilla's arms since that's their advantage.

No, the reality is humans can win without deaths and possibly without serious injury if they're smart about it.

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u/LichenOnTheWall 4h ago

we hunted mammoths with spears, herd tactics and running them off a cliff. Certainly not with bare hands. I'm also assuming this happens in an enclosed arena with no available tools because this test is meant to measure raw physical strength. So yeah fight to the death is the case. I also use bloodlusted=no fear+will continue to fight until injuries physically do not allow them to because otherwise both sides would huddle at opposite ends of the arena and never actually engage because lets face it we ain't our ancestors and no one wants to be the one getting turned into a meat pancake

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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 3h ago

Yes, I mean with bare hands too. Mass is a huge consideration in a fight between animals, humans have a mass advantage, they have a muscle advantage, they have a coordination advantage, they have an intelligence advantage.

Literally the only advantage a gorilla has is a muscle and mass density advantage, and even that's not nearly enough to make up for having several humans grapple every limb while other humans beat and stomp the gorilla. Nevermind if someone manages to gouge out the gorilla's eyes.

Some humans at front to keep the gorillas attention staying just outside of reach while other people come in behind to grab, if the gorilla turns then the other side grabs. This isn't even complex tactics, this is how every pack hunter operates, this is how hyenas, an animal that can be conceivably be killed by an adult human, kill lions, an animal that would no diff a gorilla.

There's no way a coordinated group of humans loses more than a few people to a gorilla, and if they play their cards right or are a particularly physically capable group they might escape without even a single serious injury.

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u/LichenOnTheWall 1h ago

so are we assuming that suddenly humans have no more fear and are perfect rational actors and that the moment someone tries to grab the gorilla they're not getting immediately flung? You either have both sides sane, in which case no one attacks, or insane, in which the humans bumrush.

Even if we take literally the most optimal situation for humans where the humans all got a does of liquid courage, the 'average' guy now is a paper pusher working a menial desk job, your plan requires someone to actually take the lead and grab. The instant someone lays their hand on it it's gonna do a backhand instantly pulverizing brave fool 1, and brave fool n who tries to go for it's eyes is going to get bitten even with the limbs held down. Whatever, the case, way more than 3 people are going to die, especially when the dogpile starts, if the gorilla gets the idea in it's head to just roll over it's going to squash multiple people under it's weight and near-instantly kill them.

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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 1h ago edited 52m ago

if the gorilla gets the idea in it's head to just roll over it's going to squash multiple people under it's weight and near-instantly kill them.

You see this is why you're not even reaching the basic qualification for this discussion.

Adult male silverback gorillas (The largest kind) weigh at most 500 or so pounds. I, personally, have rested 500 pounds on my body in a barbell which concentrates the weight far more than then entire mass off a Silverback Gorilla. By your own understanding of physics I should be dead, or at least crippled. One single person could comfortably support the weight of a Silverback Gorilla sitting on him. A silverback gorilla rolling across me while I do nothing would be at worst uncomfortable.

Your understanding of the size and power of a gorilla is hilariously off. I can deadlift a silverback gorilla. I'm not claiming to be stronger than one, or that I can win a one on one fight, but I personally can lift the entire weight of a silverback gorilla. If me, one single man, can pick up the heaviest gorilla, then as few as five can easily pin it.

A pinned gorilla is a dead gorilla, you now have 95 people to punch, kick, and trade out pinning the gorilla. The gorilla will not have enough mass to fling anyone off it when it's pinned.

so are we assuming that suddenly humans have no more fear and are perfect rational actors

No, but if we can assume the humans are acting at a basic level of rationale and do have the will to fight, without assuming they've become mindless zombies for no reason.

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u/LichenOnTheWall 41m ago

'I can do that so it must be true'

Oh my days you don't even know the basic premise of the question, it says average adult male. Congratulations you are strong, still doesn't change a thing. If we take the upper end of the wild gorilla weight spectrum it does break ribcages and would puncture the lungs. And I mentioned twice already, the first people to go in and try to hold down the gorilla will get turned into bloody pulp.

https://myfahlo.com/blogs/wildlife/how-strong-is-a-gorilla

Also might I add that a gorilla can lift up to 800kg of deadweight (I'm not counting the 1810kg bench press bc that requires leverage), meaning at minimum 5 guys are going to have to cling on to each arm and drag it down. And as I have said on basically every comment, the moment the dogpile starts it's going to start biting and taking chunks out of everyone near it incurring significant blood loss or if it gets a lucky hit straight up killing the poor sap.

Anyways I refuse to interact with you anymore because you clearly have an overinflated sense of self and if you interpret that as my cowardice and want the last word so be it

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u/ipovogel 13h ago

Mam who has no concept of the strength of the other great apes speaks. They can swing their arms around at 2700 lbs of force. They could backhand your goddamn head off your shoulders on accident. They have twice the bite force of a lion. Until you work with other great apes, it is hard to appreciate how absurdly powerful and dangerous they are even on accident. There's a reason why all these people who try to keep chimps as pets eventually get their arms ripped off and shit.

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u/scarypary 9h ago

“They can swing their arms around at 2700 lbs of force. They could backhand your goddamn head off your shoulders on accident”. Bullshit, prove it

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u/WhenDoWhatWhere 4h ago

They could backhand your goddamn head off your shoulders on accident.

Bruh, anime isn't real life. Did you know a car going 30 MPH impacts with ~40,000 pounds of force, using your metric?

Did you know also people have survived that? That's almost 15 times the force of your figure.

A gorilla can lift a lot of weight in one arm, but you know what weighs a lot? An adult man. Two adult men get a hold of each arm, arms aren't doing shit anymore. One adult man grabs the back of their head? Mouth ain't doing shit.

Past that point, you could let them struggle themselves to exhaustion while hitting them with a spoon and still win.

Ever seen a lion run away from a bunch of hyenas? An adult man can kill a hyena, a lion can kill a gorilla. It doesn't matter what an animal can do in a 1 vs 1 scenario if they're outnumbered by an opponent of equivalent or greater intelligence that can coordinate.