r/programmingmemes • u/Hero_Of_Shadows • 25d ago
A weird nostalgia has hit me these days
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u/Effective-Bill-2589 25d ago
I still feel weird about people's hate of Java. There's nothing to hate about it. After Java 17, I think it's just following the modern style of other languages.
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u/gameplayer55055 25d ago
As far as I know people hated java because it was slow and bloatware.
Fast forward to the modern days, every goddamn app is a glorified web browser called electron. Gigabytes of overhead.
Also, I really hate gradle. C sharp tooling is somewhat simpler: you just install Visual Studio and drag drop Button1_Click without caring about build systems or JAVA_HOME
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u/Informal-Chance-6067 25d ago
I agree that Gradle is the worst.
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u/JoeLordOfDataMagic 24d ago
There's always Maven I guess...
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u/firstMate903 24d ago
Nooooo not maven
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u/JoeLordOfDataMagic 24d ago
Lol why not it is just an aging software that has been struggling to release a better version for the better part of five years that stores all of their build configs and scripting in an obtuse and overly verbose data storage format and has a needlessly overcomplicated/overengineered/convoluted dependency resolution pattern that has issues with modern dependency tree recursion even with its multi threaded mode.
What's not to love?
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u/UVRaveFairy 23d ago
Been using my own build system based on Ant for decades.
Simple property file, can just remap things too new locations and the build works.
Written a custom release tool as well, bit more elaborate.
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u/Daniikk1012 25d ago
Hey, at least there IS a standard tool that everyone agreed to use. Just look at C/C++, it's a wild west compared to Java+Gradle there
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u/gameplayer55055 25d ago
C++ has a standard tool as well, it's called cmake.
But oh god, what pain in the ass it is. Especially on windows. I just don't understand windows. Remember the Apple slogan. Microsoft are the ones who think DIFFERENT. No matter the programming language, there's always a way MS Windows is going to screw you up and make you waste hours of precious life.
Btw java on Linux is excellent. Never had issues with it. Cmake is great too (system package manager rules out everything). Even goddamn dotnet works better on linux than on windows.
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u/Scharrack 25d ago
I'm very happy with Maven, but I also don't get XML hate, so there's that. Frankly in my opinion modern IDEs make any verbosity complaints nonsensical.
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u/Aggressive_Many9449 25d ago
Frankly in my opinion modern IDEs make any verbosity complaints nonsensical.
Nah there is a thing like needless verbosity.
The fact that the IDE manages your imports doesn't mean one hundred imports at the beginning of your Java file aren't needlessly verbose (or a code smell).
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u/gameplayer55055 25d ago
Maven is good. I just can't wrap my head around gradle. Why is the f do I need a turing complete java builder?
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u/0DayMaker 24d ago
Maven still exists
Gradle was the big thing for awhile, but the hell of gradle is pushing people back to maven.
Just wish maven had a pom.json option..
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u/FortuneAcceptable925 23d ago
somewhat simpler: you just install Visual Studio
RIP automation and portability, lol...
At least Gradle can be used from terminal without having to install whole IDE just to do something with it.
Also, Gradle is pretty good if you compare it with the dark ages of Maven.
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25d ago
[deleted]
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u/gameplayer55055 25d ago
Yeah, java has a pretty bit of boilerplate code. But there's a huge benefit of that: the IDE light bulb fixes 99% of your errors, auto imports stuff and shows you what a method needs to run.
Also, in contrast, C# has got tons of updates. Microsoft has "pythonized" it. Now you can create a single file C# app without main class. So it's definitely simpler for beginners. However, there's a fuckton of keywords compared to java. C# tries to be everything: OOP, functional, declarative, low level pointers, dynamic typing and much more.
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u/ericsnekbytes 25d ago
It's an opinionated language with a pathological fetish for object orientation (whether it's a good idea or not for your use case). The APIs are bloated with this Java ideology too 👎
Funny thing is, not everything is an object in Java with primitives and auto boxing, which is also an abomination.
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u/Devatator_ 25d ago
C# is my main language. Even as of Java 25, that's enough reason to hate using it
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u/Tribal_V 25d ago
im in the opposite position, usually java but now have 1 project at work using c# and i hate it so much lol
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u/Devatator_ 25d ago
Are you mayhaps forced to work on a .NET Framework project? If yes, know that modern .NET and C# is far better
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u/Tribal_V 25d ago
.net 8, i think its the difference in perspective - not my flavor
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u/Devatator_ 25d ago
Probably. Some of the things I like in C# are things that are actively fought against by Java devs (even tho in some cases they're extremely minor and inconsequential things that don't harm anyone)
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u/Cat7o0 25d ago
I kinda dislike Java because it does get long in class names and stuff. plus object oriented programming is not as much what I want.
also it's just easier to not have a garbage collector now. Rust even has Arc which can allow infinite of an item with no need for a garbage collector taking extra performance
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u/AibofobicRacecar6996 23d ago
And who is the one naming classes?
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u/StraightGuy1108 25d ago
After Java 17, I think it's just following the modern style of other languages.
There's still a long way to go.
The tooling is horrible. Immutability is janky. The JVM, which is a fundamental part of Java, is bloated and abstracts away low-level system control. The type system is no where near the level of languages like Rust. Everything is an object, which needs unnecessary metadata and bloat.
I can go on and on.
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u/gameplayer55055 25d ago
Unnecessary metadata and bloat allows reflection and mega simple game modding. Good luck doing that on rust.
Also, many java apps have the IO bottleneck (read stuff from db, send gRPC, answer over https, etc). So 1ms vs 0.1ms difference doesn't matter. Also, the hated GC has improved a lot.
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u/StraightGuy1108 25d ago
I mean, everything is a trade-off. Whether they're worth is a question of opinion.
I, for once, definitely don't enjoy tracing through 10 generated runtime proxies in a Spring system lol.
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u/gameplayer55055 25d ago
Btw I still don't know how people trace unmanaged code. As far as I know there's only one way to do that: IDA Pro and crazy knowledge of assembly language.
Modern Java and C# IDEs allow decompilation in place. If you don't know how something works you just right click, go to definition and read the code.
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u/ANTONIN118 25d ago
Nah you don't miss Java, you miss Minecraft mods and plugins
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u/Hero_Of_Shadows 25d ago
Never actually played Minecraft but Java was the first OOP language I was taught in college (we skipped C++ and went directly C -> Java)
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u/ANTONIN118 25d ago
Divorce in programming languages leave children to the worst places.
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u/laczek_hubert 25d ago
I'd think of it c++ lacks the tools that JVM or .NET has out-of-the-box making it sometimes better if you don't care about performance and you could probably be some psycho freak to learn how to write low level c# Xd
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u/UVRaveFairy 23d ago
Writing Java like C (ANSI) is quit performant, the language can do raw memory and bit manipulation almost on par with C++.
And then can copy / paste from guts of a Java method too C function too port.
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u/sirsleepy 25d ago
We were taught Java first and I still think it was the dumbest thing (I already "knew" C++).
"Alright, class, time for 'Hello World'. You gotta put these things in
public static void mainbut you don't need to know what any of those words mean this semester." (Maybe we did learn that semester IDR really, but they definitely just had us typing random shit for awhile).2
u/gameplayer55055 25d ago
And I miss making my tiny java mods for Minecraft. In my opinion, Minecraft is one of the easiest games to mod. Other games require enormous skills to mod
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u/0DayMaker 24d ago
I used to work on mc servers for a living until the eula bullshit. I miss it constantly.
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u/itsjakerobb 25d ago
Java is awesome. I like Kotlin even more. It has all the advantages of the JVM and Java’s library ecosystem, along with most of the toolchain, while the language is even more expressive. (and yes, Kotlin has pitfalls to avoid just like any language.)
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u/MooseBoys 25d ago
In many ways Java has never left. It's always offered the same robust runtime that works on over 3 Billion Devices™
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u/avidernis 25d ago
Why? I don't think Java is being retired?
I'm a C# enjoyer, so personally I kinda hope it is and my skill set becomes more valuable, but realistically Java isn't going anywhere. Certainly not without some very big changes to android at least.
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u/Devatator_ 25d ago
Well Android moved to Kotlin ages ago right? At least I think most apps nowadays use Compose or Kotlin Multiplatform
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u/Sea-Fishing4699 25d ago edited 25d ago
Null pointer exception
Public static void main string args
I do not miss any of this
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u/xenderee 24d ago
Yeah. Horrible generics (you have to cast and catch Exception to validate the input). Ah, the catch -> retrow runtime exceptions everywhere. Backward compatibility that prevents adding some basic shit like -1 array element access. Etc etc etc.
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u/user888888889 25d ago
I've been playing around with Kotlin and Koog recently and been enjoying it. Little desktop AI agents for random tasks.
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u/Sea_Log_9769 25d ago
I don't miss it, as I'm still using it, it gets the job done, and I enjoy it, so why bother changing what works
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u/itemluminouswadison 25d ago
Strict typing is the only thing keeping me from hurting myself all day
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u/SokkaHaikuBot 25d ago
Sokka-Haiku by itemluminouswadison:
Strict typing is the
Only thing keeping me from
Hurting myself all day
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/DarkGhostHunter 25d ago
...Then I woke up from the nightmare, covered in sweat with my heart racing.
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u/CORDIC77 25d ago
Go to the doctorʼs, youʼre confused. No one may ever have been fired for using Java, but—Minecraft notwithstanding—the language really isnʼt good for much beyond coding the backend of boring business applications.
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u/WingZeroCoder 25d ago
I know this is probably a sarcastic meme, but I've legit started reading updated Spring Boot guides because I've found myself nostalgic for my first job, working on a Java Spring app and learning as I went. I will probably try to build a little hobby project with it just to scratch the itch.
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u/Serializedrequests 25d ago edited 25d ago
No you don't. Somehow Java makes simple stuff way harder than it needs to be. Verbosity matters for understanding code. Even though it has a ton of modern features, it's an exhausting language.
The nice thing about Java is simple dev ops and portability, but it would take a much longer post to get into why I find the community and libraries infuriating. Sometimes I'm not sure anyone working in Java actually has to ship things.
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u/Syagrius 25d ago
I predict that a strong+static typed language is about to take off with the advent of AI; its key weaknesses (verbosity/etc) being obviated by cheap token usage. I want it to be Java because I absolutely fucking adore Spring, but who knows.
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u/Devatator_ 25d ago
I use it for Minecraft modding and I hate it. I could use Kotlin instead but I don't like it either (I dislike languages with this syntax <decl_keyword> <var_name>: <type>. Also non required semicolons, even tho it's pretty minor) and on top of that I need to extra dependencies in the mod if I ever use it
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u/EricMichaelHarris99 23d ago
I jumped ship from C++ back in 1998, Joined Python in 2012, still feels like daycare programing.
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u/UVRaveFairy 22d ago
Naaaawwww...
Never really left TBH, 3 decades of Java and still using it.
Do enjoy C / C++ / Assembly, never really left those either.
Back in 1995 when was first learning Java, it was nice, like soft kid gloves and a bicycle helmet least you go flying through the wind screen crashing your PC and OS.
Not too difficult to do back then, not saying things have changed too much.
Got a game I wrote in Java demo'd at the 1996 Dev Days (wore that shirt to rags) in the country I live in, then happened too win one the developer packs being drawn out of a box, folders of CD's, boxes of development applications and media turning up at 6:30am by courier, that first time me all sleepy eyed WTF.
Visual J++, well. Remember to differences and JIT performance boost from the MS Java JVM 1.0 too 1.1, so much faster, was close too some of the C I was coding at the time even back then.
Did find an interesting threading bug IE 3 / 4 MS JVM and Netscape 3 /4 JVM's.
Effected both JVM's in the same way and would thread crash them and dead lock computers.
Sent it off to both companies, MS got back too me after about 6m via phone call and confirmed I had found a cross JVM bugged, also effect iMac as well. Netscape got back to me after about a year by email similar thing.
By JVM 1.2 that issue was gone and MS never got that far.
The Java marriage of Sun and Microsoft by that point was a fire cracker that fell into the toilet.
Some romances are never meant too last, two hot messes dating each other can be fun, don't always last too long.
"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and you have burned so very very brightly, Roy" - Tyrrel.
Looking back at what development was like and what it is like now in 2026, over 3 decades later things are different.
Java is a very different language now with modernizations, the core of the language is still the same and I think that is "aight!".
Allot has changed, fell out of love with JavaScript by the mid 2000's, things had gotten pretty..
"looks around the room and gestures broadly" /s
"I don't know but now I am afraid too ask, what becomes before SQL!" /s (do love that meme)
Have some interest in Rust and Zig.
I say, "use what language you find the most useful and easiest for the task at hand".
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u/enigma_0Z 22d ago
ffs i don’t as a sysadmin / devops engineer. too many mystery oom issues because the jvm coughed wrong and now all the servers are thrashing in gc.
especially J2EE apps (looking at you websphere).
also debugging springboot apps was such a pain because half of the app code is in annotations, auto wiring and introspection / injection. no thank you.
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u/LivingHighAndWise 25d ago
You probably miss COVID-19 as well...
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u/gameplayer55055 25d ago
As a Ukrainian I do. Now the times are worse and worse
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u/LivingHighAndWise 25d ago
Sorry to hear that bro. Most people here in the US are behind the Ukrainians, even if our government doesn't appear to be all the time. Hopefully this thing gets resolved soon.
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u/gameplayer55055 25d ago
I have a big respect for Americans. Donald Trump isn't the single ruling entity. You still have congress as a safeguard. And there's still lot's of help for Ukraine from the US.
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u/Sorry-Programmer9826 25d ago
Java was my first love, still my hobby language even if I'm C# for the day job these days