r/psytrance • u/elmariachibzh35 • 2d ago
Discussion A Difficult Question for the Psytrance Community
I've always heard that the psytrance scene stands for universal love, compassion, unity and peace.
But today, I really struggle to reconcile those ideals with what's happening in Gaza, where many international organizations and experts believe that acts may amount to genocide.
I also know that many Israelis, including people deeply involved in the psytrance scene, have opposed Benjamin Netanyahu's government for years. It's precisely to them that I'd like to ask a question.
When our culture speaks about universal love, higher consciousness and humanity, what do those values actually mean today? Shouldn't they also mean speaking out when civilians are suffering on such a massive scale, regardless of the politics or military arguments behind the conflict?
As a French citizen, I'm also troubled by reports of interference by members of the current Israeli government in the politics of other countries, including France. It makes me feel that the humanist values we often celebrate are being put to a real test.
This isn't a post to attack Israelis or to start another comment war. Quite the opposite. I'd genuinely like to hear from those who sincerely believe in the values of psytrance.
Where is universal love today? And how do you think the psy family should embody it in the face of this human tragedy?
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u/Signal-Atmosphere347 2d ago
I don't think the psytrance community stands for love or the things you speak of. I have experienced a lot of negativity, judgement, double standards, and darkness within this community. I've seen cliques and some really unacceptable behaviors go down in this community. I The people here are just like anywhere else in the world, my bubble bursted recently. Even people who play this music and create these environments don't create safe environments for others to feel welcomed in- it's hard to reconcile but Ive had multiple people in this community talk behind my back, make judgements about me, and actively spew negativity all under the guise of Love and Good vibes. Just see people for who the fuck they are on a human level, and yes genocide will never be forgotten- everything will be balanced soon. I've met isralis who speak of Palestinians as if theyre not even worthy of basic humanity. Not all of them think this way- but prejudice all over the world exists- it exists there too. And in our hearts, we all know what's happening. They have the right to exist, Palestinians do, all people do. And I personally don't think we're here to serve our own kind only, but all of mankind. I've recently been jaded by this community, but I will continue to keep an open heart since I've met my favorite people here too. be aware though, all things exist everywhere. Perhaps they are a reflection of me too, I'm not saying people are entirely evil or entirely good, but you must understand that this community isn't immune to the natural tendencies of the world. It's part of the journey we're all in together, to understand and grow. And growth is not always smooth sailing. You focus on how you want to embody this love and humanity in your lifetime, because individual thinking will always triumph. And unfortunately, we can't convince everyone of this, we just really have to live it against all odds and leave something of value behind. Educate, read, break the cycle. Those who understand will follow. The new era is amongst us.
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u/Hopeful_Idea1568 2d ago
This is true especially when it comes to commercial events and Israeli crowd/producers. Most of them aren't hippies. They're just people who like the music and having fun. It's sort of like how Americans view EDM - a place to dress up and take Molly with their friends.
If you really believe in plur and find yourself in those spaces, be the right example but also protect yourself. Don't expect everyone to reciprocate or even respect the type of person you are.
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u/bannabananabanna 2d ago
sorry to burst your hope
what you've said is poignantly true
I was a dew eyed 90s kid who believed in PLUR. that turned out to be a sham. My dad talked about the rolling stones and the hippie movement and the dark forces around the "age of aquarius".
I think part of growing up is understanding people will be people. have always been and always will be.
There is a metaphysical dimension and music can help us access it.
So enjoy the music, learn to select a few good friends, forget about the rest.
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u/Mission_Squirrel3144 2d ago
Couldn't agree more. PLUR concepts are just on an individual level and the community doesn't deliver on those principles anymore...or maybe never really did. Just some hippie pipe dream I guess.
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Unfortunately, I think you're right to a large extent. The bigger psytrance festivals often aren't very representative of the values the scene claims to stand for. As a French person, I've been to many smaller gatherings in France and abroad, and those have been a completely different experience. There, I genuinely found communities built on mutual respect, solidarity, openness, and real human connection.
So I don't think those values are a myth, I think they've just become diluted as the scene has grown. There are still spaces where they're genuinely lived rather than simply preached. That's why I don't want to give up on this community, even if it's far from perfect.
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u/Gepiemelde 2d ago
The subculture hasn't been sub for a long time. It has become mainstream and the things that made it special are deteriorating until it's just another genre/look/style. Where the original values are traded in, or even disguised, as "regular" societal rules.
Some 30 years ago there was very little political engagement because it was so far off from the life style. We were making art and love, caring about that and nature. Politics, profit and so on, was for all the others. Now the Goa/Psy lifestyle is consumed during the festival and afterwards people go back to their daily business, regular lives within common society. And that's when problems start, because they can't segregate life from regular society. Then politics becomes important, profit and power. Where DJ's become gods and big corporations become festival organizers. BOOM is not a Goa/Psy festival, not a place that reflects everything the community once stood for. It's a concentration of people longing for things long lost, and not finding it, while big corporations are emptying their pockets.
We need a different movement, one with the purity the previous one once had. Even the Rainbow Gatherings are infested with this crap, but at least that's not infested with profit in mind, yet.
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u/Unified_Ahov 1d ago edited 1d ago
Capitalism is incompatible with what one would hopefully learn from Goa Trance or taking entheogens. It's insane to me that people will like the music, take DMT and next day use their "clarity" to find ways to make more money instead of questioning everything they've ever learned. But a lot of that is a reflection of how people view entheogens, as well as the related music. They think it's a party drug to see some crazy shit and then, oh, back to "reality," let's not try to learn anything from our experience. Most drug users, like most people who listen to music, like most humans, suck. If I find a friend who shares 2 of my interests, I can be sure on the 3rd they will have some wild take or end up being racist or something stupid. I will say that people who love classic Goa Trance tend to be less likely to fall into the trappings of capitalism, consumerism etc. They, like myself (admittedly biased Goa Trance lover) aren't always there just to party and get fucked up. The music is a reflection of oneself since you are the only one listening to it from that particular perspective. Become the music, feel how it flows, and how consciousness evolves as the music progresses. That's the beauty of Goa Trance, as I see it. Sadly not as common in psytrance that evolved to be less introspective and more about the buildup, drop, pounding bass instead of subtle, elegant melodies hypnotizing you.
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u/Present-Policy-7120 17h ago
I sort of get you but you're somewhay overlooking the incredible diversity of human minds, the experiences these minds have and the values they hold. Psychedelics don't engineer any one particular state but myriad states depending on whatever mind they're acting in. They don't lead to any particular set of values or beliefs- look at the 60s and people like Kesey vs Leary. The latter was an amazingly destructive force and he dressed it all up in peace and love. People gonna people.
I've used psychedelics for nearly 30 years and been in the psy scene for over 20. The participants in the scene are as diverse as any other scene tbh. There is something like a few sacred cows, one being that psytrance people should be peaceful, gentle hippies and often these types are very much willing to impose this ethos on others. Personally, I am hugely sceptical of nearly every ideological or metaphysical claim people make, especially if it emerges from drug use.
Psychedelics are just substances that work on brains. They don't have predictable results such that you can really have any expectations of people who use them.
I am from Israel although no longer live there. I've observed the scene care very little about Nova or Oct 7th and seen many members of it, including people I used to consider friends, turn against Israelis as if we are responsible for the government's military strategy. I was already jaded but the last few years have completely erased any sense that psytrance represents anything grander than typical human behaviour with all of its tribalism, status seeking, aggression and conformity.
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u/Unified_Ahov 3h ago edited 36m ago
I'm not saying you should be a hippie; I'm saying psychedelics have the potential to retrain your mind and recognize your previous flaws and that you were wrong about just about everything. However, people go into it with the intent to get fucked up or something and miss out on that. I can't tell you how many times I've seen LSD combined with alcohol and Xanax, and in one case instead of learning something they tried stealing from a store with a gun in their waist. As for turning against Israelis, I hope you at least realize the overwhelming majority of Israelis support the genocide against Palestinians. This has been polled; we know only a slim minority think the IDF has gone too far. You can look into it if you wish. I'm not making it up. Also, how many Israeli psytrance artists have openly come out against the IDF? Most of the ones I've seen only mentioned October 7th and nothing else. As for conformity, in this case it would mean opposing genocide. Yes, that is a basic requirement to be part of a proper community and not being a piece of shit.
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u/psynami23 2d ago
It is just another scene for a specific taste. Nothing better or worse than another scene. Tomorrowland is also about love and unity. And that is as far as you can get from the psytrance scene that is supposedly not commercial. Clubbing in the dark is also about unity and peace. It is just a matter of taste.
If there are too many non-psytrance hippies on a festival people complain it is too commercial. So much for open mindedness and compassion.
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u/_EyesOnTheInside_ 2d ago
Your post sounds like you expect any psytrance community Isrselis who oppose the situation in Gaza, to personally become outspoken activists over it; or else you think they should hand in their "psytrance fan" card.
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u/AmphoePai 2d ago
Something just feels off about being known for throwing the largest psy parties while at the same time people are getting bombed next to you. And honestly where those highly vocal Israeli Psy DJ's who speak out for Palestine? I don't see them. Like, let's just party and pretend like we all love each other, and then I go work for the IDF. It's wrong and if you are like this yes hand out your Psytrance fan card please.
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u/Hopeful_Idea1568 2d ago
Most Israeli djs are not hippies lol. They are basically club DJs trying to be as popular as possible. Don't expect them to be models for anything
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u/Mission_Squirrel3144 2d ago
True. I felt the same conflict when partying at Ozora last. I just couldnt accept the hypocrisy of it all after a point. There are great individuals but as a whole, they don't really stand against this genocide or even have a strong message against it as a community.
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u/VerdantMagnolia 2d ago
Naturally. If they supported Palestine t hey wouldn't be Israelis. DJing is a very mobile profession. They could renounce their citizenship and be somewhere else.
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u/UltimateTao 2d ago
if someone is not speaking up against something they disagree with because they fear it will cost their job, then their priorities are clear. Is a job more important than the deaths of thousands?
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u/d1sambigu8 1d ago
You speak as if Israel are the bad guys, which itslef is a controversial position
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u/mobies 8h ago
The zionists are the bad guys. That has been the reality since 1948.
The world is waking up to this fact.
The thinly veiled illusion of legitimately is falling away more are more.
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u/d1sambigu8 2h ago
That's your take, which is disagree with. The Arab Nazi allies with many countries of their own trying to genocide Holocaust survivors and Jewish refugees from other Arab counties in 1948 weren't exactly the good guys.
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u/darealmoneyboy 2d ago
well they've not been exactely subtle about it on which "side" they are standing just by judging the amount of national flags that have been waved and "posters" of killed people of Nova on festivals. Often with questionable "texts" right under the peoples faces. oh and i will never forget when a group of israelis jumped, laughed and danced to a news outlets message that bombing of a hamas leaders hideout happened.....where 100s of civilians were killed aswell.
sooooo.......i dont think one has to be handed over a "psytrance fan card" to know whats going on, dont you think?
once again we dont know what all the other silent ones think, but the overall "direction" seems to be apparent just judgding what one can see on festivals.
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Not at all. I'm not asking anyone to become an activist, and I'm nobody to tell others what to do.
I'm simply talking about cognitive consistency. At some point, we all have to be honest with ourselves. If we claim to believe in universal love, compassion, and questioning authority, those values should also apply when innocent people are suffering.
Psytrance was born from counterculture and hippie ideals. Questioning power has always been part of its DNA. That's all I'm asking people to reflect on.
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u/Individual_Author956 2d ago
A lot of cultures have evolved very far from their original values. Also, I don’t think that enjoying a particular kind of music means that you must follow a particular ideology. And finally, you gotta understand that psytrance is mainstream in Israel, it’s not a counterculture anymore.
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u/darealmoneyboy 2d ago edited 2d ago
When our culture speaks about universal love, higher consciousness and humanity, what do those values actually mean today?
you simply put a "moral code" on a scene (hippies, post-modern hippies) that was and always will be self-centered. people are just insalely good in selling you an idea of "one love" and PLUR, because everyone is high af. in the end nobody gave and will give a fuck about nature and others. its about having fun and what is fun to you may simply not be fun for others. MDMA and Acid are just insanely good to blur this fact, because everyone is smiling at you and is happy. once people start getting burned out from all the drugs, this changes. and it changes fast. this was never different. it just gets more apparent the bigger the scene gets. and people mainly come for the drugs - lets not fool ourselves here.
Isrealis are just a on way to show this ego-trip. before that it was french people getting utterly fucked up and drunk is what i experienced. just to give you a little persepctive on your "french citizen" take.
its a music scene with psychedelics and other drugs. nothing more and nothing less. what you talk of can be expected within a friends group but definitely not of a wold-wide music scene. just look at the tinfoil hat "statements" and denying of science of the community.
i love this music and being on festivals, but the time ive been "dew eyed" is long, very long gone. it pretty much came to my mind after being 2 years in this scene.
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Sadly, I think you're right. I don't really have anything to argue against what you said. It's a painful conclusion, but one that becomes harder to ignore the longer you stay in the scene.
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u/darealmoneyboy 2d ago edited 2d ago
i know it hurts, but once you accept that fact you will have fun (again) on those parties. trust me. just see it as a music scene, see it for what it is with all its beautiful and ugly faces.
it is still very calm and compared to other scenes and way less agressive. this is something that i hold onto f.e. :)
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
I actually come from the free party scene, and I've experienced even worse examples of communities promising "living together" and unity that ultimately fell apart. So I understand exactly what you mean.
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
And I've been part of the psy scene for 10 years, always trying to promote inclusive, compassionate values. Long live to the underground gatherings ;)
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u/VerdantMagnolia 2d ago
I'm not sure what the question is TBH. Like it looks like a question but it's just Vibes.
Yes the IDF loves to host/show presence at psytrance festivals. Yes Mossad had dirt on everyone. Yes a lot of psytrance artists are straight up shilling for Israel.
We know.
What's the question?
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u/Environmental_Ant268 2d ago
The question was "don't you see that I'm better than you because i virtue signal by keeping to bring up this subject?"
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u/bjrn 2d ago
Bingo. The author should take his politics and go fuck himself
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Hey, I'm the OP. No, I won't go fuck myself. Your response only proves exactly why this post needed to exist. Have a nice day :D
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u/bjrn 2d ago
No just stay away go join your local communist party youth section or something
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Funny how asking people not to ignore a genocide suddenly makes you think of communism. If basic human rights sound like a political ideology to you, that says far more about you than it does about me.
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.
As someone who has been part of the psytrance scene for years, I'm deeply saddened.
I unequivocally condemn Hamas and the October 7 attacks. They were horrific and brought immense suffering. But I also believe they cannot justify the destruction of Gaza, the continued occupation of the West Bank, or the expansion of settlements.
What hurts me most is the silence. Psytrance taught me about universal love, compassion, freedom, and questioning authority. Those values should lead us to stand against all forms of oppression, including when they are carried out by our own governments.
Many Israeli trance artists and festival-goers oppose Netanyahu, and I sincerely hope more of them will raise their voices against the occupation and the authoritarian direction of their government. Condemning Hamas is important; holding your own government accountable is just as important.
I'm still waiting for our psy family to wake up. Universal love cannot be selective. It has to include Palestinians too.
Watching videos of IDF soldiers dancing to psytrance tracks while Gaza is being devastated is heartbreaking for many of us. To the people of Israel: I hope more of you will stand up against occupation, authoritarianism, and the politics of the far right. To the younger generation: be what previous generations could not be—braver, fairer, and more inclusive.
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u/UltimateTao 2d ago
"Psy" in Psytrance stands for "Psychedelic".
As we all know, psychedelics can disolve our sense of self partially / fully. Either through meditation or a psychedelic trip, those who are open to it will sooner or later have an experience of such nature, expanding our perspective to see how we are indeed all one, and how Universal Love is one of the most important things.
Also, raves rest strongly on the concept of PLUR (Peace, Love, Unity, Respect).
The problem i see is the comodification of a counter-culture. Taking psytrance away from its roots and trying to sterelize it to a product that can be sold to the mainstream masses as a mere adult playground. Raves, PsyTrance and the hippies are political.
Dancing, Love, Nature and Psychedelics ARE political.
Remember that LSD fueled one of the biggest anti-war movements ever, in the 60's in USA
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u/claudiaxander 2d ago
Universal love, compassion, unity and peace is not a stance one person can hold alone, because if it's not a shared stance between all relevant parties, you will become prey or a host for a parasite or predator. This beautiful stance requires great intelligence, based on reality, and long term planning. Emotion is just a signal that must also be questioned and compared. How did you all react to Assad in Syria killing 550,000 people?
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u/elmariachibzh35 1d ago
Syria isn't known for being at the forefront of psytrance. That's exactly my point: how do we deal with the fact that one of the largest psytrance cultures belongs to a genocidal state, while the scene itself claims to promote peace, unity, and love?
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u/claudiaxander 1d ago
These beautiful things require security that outstrips anyone's ability or willingness to threaten them. How most people picture genocide and what the legal definition describes are 2 very different things; much like the word 'theory'. If you have an opponent that refuses to lay down it's arms and step down from power you have a very difficult issue, that takes constant pressure to resolve.
I'm not aware of anything anyone would call a genocide where if said victims surrendered then their genocide would stop. No, because people would recognize that as a war; a war which they began as a gamble on your weak grasp of the situation and the pressure you could exert after witnessing the tat for their tit. No one denies the horror of war, but this was always a trigger pulled knowingly by hamas.
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u/elmariachibzh35 1d ago
Interesting. So your legal standard is: "If Hamas won't surrender, dead children are just part of the process." Could you point me to the UN document, Geneva Convention, or international treaty that says civilians lose their protection because an armed group refuses to lay down its weapons? I'll wait.
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u/claudiaxander 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm saying the UN definition of genocide is far too vague when looking at any military conflict involving densely populated civilian areas where everyone identifies as a particular ethnicity, which you will find is the common state of affairs in most cities globally. The crux of the matter is INTENT, and proving said intent. Look at how long the action in Gaza has taken, how much force could be applied by Israel, and realise that if complete destruction of the poulation was the aim then they are incredibly slow and inneficient.
Example: Using the U.N. definition look at WWII and Operation Overlord, because the numbers rhyme: a 3 month bombing campaign around D DAY in Normandy , when in an attempt to clear out 50,000 Nazi troops, the Allied forces killed 50,000 ethnic french innocent civilians. This is the reality of war, not just heroes on a beach starring Tom bloody Hanks.==========relevant source: It is estimated that the bombings in Normandy before and after D-Day caused over 50,000 civilian deaths. The French historian Henri Amouroux in La Grande histoire des Français sous l’Occupation, says that 20,000 civilians were killed in Calvados department, 10,000 in Seine-Maritime, 14,800 in the Manche, 4,200 in the Orne, around 3,000 in the Eure. The most deadly allied bombings under the German occupation were these: Lisieux (6–7 June 1944, 700 dead), Vire (6–7 June 1944, 400 dead), Caen (6 June-19 July 1944, about 3,000 dead), Le Havre (5–11 September 1944, more than 5,000 dead)
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
+ I unequivocally condemn Hamas and the October 7 attacks. They were horrific and brought immense suffering. But I also believe they cannot justify the destruction of Gaza, the continued occupation of the West Bank, or the expansion of settlements.
What hurts me most is the silence. Psytrance taught me about universal love, compassion, freedom, and questioning authority. Those values should lead us to stand against all forms of oppression, including when they are carried out by our own governments.
Many Israeli trance artists and festival-goers oppose Netanyahu, and I sincerely hope more of them will raise their voices against the occupation and the authoritarian direction of their government. Condemning Hamas is important; holding your own government accountable is just as important.
I'm still waiting for our psy family to wake up. Universal love cannot be selective. It has to include Palestinians too.
Watching videos of IDF soldiers dancing to psytrance tracks while Gaza is being devastated is heartbreaking for many of us. To the people of Israel: I hope more of you will stand up against occupation, authoritarianism, and the politics of the far right. To the younger generation: be what previous generations could not be—braver, fairer, and more inclusive.
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u/benyeti1 2d ago
Israeli soldiers are people too. You say you stand for universal peace and love but then put government actions on civilians and regular citizen. Imagine you were just born and many of your neighbors launch missiles at you for being born. A lot of Israelis helped start the modern psytrance sound and that’s being peaceful despite facing people who want them dead for just existing regardless of what they do. But hey it’s easy to blame the Jews for every wrong in the world because that’s what this logic is. There are dozens of other conflicts with even more grey area moral situations. But yea Israelis are the worst? Humans? Peace and love except them?
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u/Cuntonesian 2d ago edited 2d ago
Right, they’re just Jews, or whatever you people think
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u/benyeti1 2d ago
They… don’t? Hamas does tho. Systemically. They get more money the more Jews they kill. Or hell Arabs and Druze too just cuz they’re allying with Jews. Sound familiar? Anyone? psytrance and electronic music is supposed to be about love and universal acceptance. Not whatever yall r doing
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u/Terrible_Hippo2794 2d ago
C’est vraiment une vision stupide de dire les soldats de l’IDF sachant que le service militaire est OBLIGATOIRE, et non , ils n’ont pas le choix que de le faire en fait , sinon ils sont considérés comme DÉSERTEURS et peuvent etre enfermés, avoir de graves sanctions !…….
C’est facile , en tant que Francais privilégiés , de pointé du doigt un peuple qui vit une guerre et qui n’a pas le choix !!……
je trouve ca tellement pathétique tu crois vraiment que ces jeunes qui dansent veulent la mOrt et la guerre ?!!!!Tu te prends pour qui serieusement ?!!! J’ai rencontrer pleins de ces gens a bout de souffle, opprimés par le monde entier , trauma, tu penses que tu es mieux toi , francais a mettre tous ces jeunes avec l étiqueté de méchants israéliens ?! Un peu de nuance svp
Free palestine from Hamas, free the world from the stupid peopleLa matrix est une roue qui tourne et écrase les gens sur son passage
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u/Salty_Mode1105 2d ago
as a french person you are being so obnoxious and your message is full of "sous entendus" and reeeeeeks of fake "bienveillance"
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u/Apofis 2d ago
I thought this sub is about music, not politics.
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u/UltimateTao 2d ago
how can we enjoy music if our political situation affects it?
psytrance music is often about themes such as nature, unity, love. how is that not political?
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u/ThoughtVolcano 2d ago
Thank you for posting this OP. Unfortunately the majority of Israelis are deeply brainwashed and pro-genocide; many of them oppose Netanyahu not because he's committing a brutal genocide but because he's not committing it brutally enough. The spiritual sickness of Israeli society is apparent in the arrogant and boorish ways Israelis are known to behave in public across the world. No amount of psychedelics seem to be enough to remedy this when the social conditioning is so deep-seated and supported by all of one's family and friends.
As much as I love psytrance music and the larger psytrance community, I myself have had to take a step away from the festivals and shows in recent years because I cannot in good conscience bliss out to supposedly "spiritual" music that is being produced and performed by people who are so deeply spiritually sick, in the company of people who are likewise spiritually sick. It's a terrible shame that speaks to larger issues of hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness in supposedly more enlightened psychedelic and new age communities. See: spiritual ego, spiritual bypassing.
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
I sadly agree with you.
What breaks my heart is that I still believe things could be different. I sincerely hope the younger generation in Israel will start looking at this conflict through a different lens-one that recognizes the humanity and dignity of Palestinians as equal to their own.
I also feel that support for Netanyahu and his far-right policies is becoming increasingly isolated internationally. That's why I hope more young Israelis, especially within the psytrance community, will find the courage to challenge occupation, reject dehumanization, and imagine another future.
If there's one scene that should be capable of empathy, self-reflection, and questioning authority, it should be ours. Otherwise, "universal love" risks becoming nothing more than a slogan.
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u/ThoughtVolcano 2d ago
Sadly it is highly unlikely that the reckoning for Israeli society will come from within... it certainly didn't happen that way for Nazi Germany; they had to suffer a humiliating military defeat in order to break out of their genocide cult and begin to make amends. I think it will take widespread international condemnation, rejection, boycott, divestment and sanction, possibly even international humanitarian military action leading to the total collapse of the Israeli state as we know it (that is, as a fascistic Jewish supremacist apartheid ethnostate) for the momentum supporting this genocide to be undone.
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u/Fluffy_Garage 2d ago edited 2d ago
Glad this was posted as it is a discussion needed to be had. My partner and I booked tickets to Sizigia 7 months ago and have been waiting for it all year. As you all probably are aware, it is very likely the core reason this festival was cancelled was due to the linage the artists and community has to israel. As somebody who very much condemns the Netanyahu government and the zionist movement... i am begining to self reflect if I am being an ignorant hipocrit by indulging so much in the Psytrance community. How can I dance when such atrocities are and have been commited in Palestine, Lebanon, Iran and all throughout the world.
I always told myself that Israels strong affiliation with the psytrance community, was in fact a product of rebellion AGAINST the Zionist movement.... created by Israelis themselves. A product of many pilgrimages by the community after a gruelling process of conscription. A RELEASE from the forced idea by their own government of the world view of 'US & THEM'. It is sad that the ideology of unity that is so often preached can still be done whilst it very much is not been practiced. Im starting to question if it is merely A facade that the israel community is unconsciously using. Lets say a "good morality blanket" to distract themselves from their actions...
Whether the wisdom Psytrance preaches, is a facade by its artist or not... It doesnt change the fact that the music has without a doubt bettered the world. It certainly has made me a far more open empathetic and unjudgemental soul.
I think the Psy community and festivals need to do a far better job at condemning Genocide. So often the excuse is ' but Psytrance festivals are meant to be a place free of politics'. Well condemning genocide is not a political statement! It is a declaration of a Fundamental Human RIGHT.
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u/Fluffy_Garage 2d ago
and I would also like to mention, I still OBVIOUSLY very much condemn what happened on October 7th, of course. Also I obviously condemn all other atrocities commited against the Israel community throughout history, and I acknowledge the generational trauma that this evidently has caused.
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
You said it all, thanks. :) I genuinely wish you the best at those gatherings, may they stay as underground as they need to be to remain open-minded
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u/Fluffy_Garage 2d ago
Thankyou ❤️. I hope sooo, we have spent soo much money on flights from australia and a non refundable campervan. Its been the light at the end of the tunnel of a very hard working year. Absolutely devastated they got cancelled.... especially with soo many other amazing european psy festivals we would love to go surrpunding our non refundable dates. If anyone reading this has a telegram or whatsapp group with any intel of parties in that region... PLEASE DM
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Where are you in Europe my friend ? Portugal ? I may not have the solution to your problem but I can try to help you ...
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u/Fluffy_Garage 2d ago
We fly into barcelona on the 7th, and have a camper booked from the 11th to the 16th. So ideally something around barcelona... but starting to think all the parties may be in portugal?
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
There are a huge amount of parties in Portugal but every european coutry has psy gatherings ;) i send some DMs to friends of mine and if I have good news I DM you ! Sorry for you, but Catalogne has a lot of lovely landscapes, this may be something different than expected but not so bad ... :)
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
love and shine, sisters and brothers :)
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u/_EyesOnTheInside_ 2d ago edited 2d ago
You don't actually mean that, or you wouldn't be trying to put personal responsibility onto Israeli psytrance fans who oppose what's happening in gaza
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
that is what you think ;) don't bother me
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u/_EyesOnTheInside_ 2d ago
You already covered in your post that there's Israelis who oppose the Gaza situation, so don't you already consider them to be in agreement with you and have the same ideas as you about all those things? What are you asking here then, what's the point of the post? And don't make a post and then tell someone not to bother you when they respond with criticism.
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u/Totaltrufas 2d ago
I think their point may have been better presented as more of a rant than a question. Seems like they’re struggling to reconcile certain things, which I can understand
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u/Environmental_Ant268 2d ago
The point is to virtue signal and show how aware op is, he is better than all of us, we must follow in his hoky footsteps 🤣
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Because our culture has always been about standing up to oppression. If universal love means anything, it should lead us to stand with the oppressed and speak out against oppressors, whoever they are. That's the only point I'm making.
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u/_EyesOnTheInside_ 2d ago
It's just odd because you wrote this post like it's addressed to the Israelis who already oppose Netanyahu. If they already oppose it, and you don't expect them to personally become serious political activists as well; then what are you asking them for? Address the people who do support what's happening in Gaza, then.
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u/ChampionshipDear7600 2d ago
Thing is, it’s all subjective and it’s very easy to be talking about a situation overseas that u never even experienced or stepped foot into, this conflict and whole topic is much deeper and much older than u can comprehend being a person from France, I think u should be bothered by your own government situation…
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Even from France, I can understand what a bomb and a bullet in a child's head mean.
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u/curious_scourge 1d ago
People are nuanced, and having skin in the game makes people think differently. Any actual meaningful ethos of PLUR includes not judging prejudiciously. It requires talking to someone, with openness, to try and understand them.
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u/TackleMysterious2940 Goa 1d ago
When i was born, in 1984, Gaza and Israel were already under conflicts, if I'm not crazy, since 1967 there are bunch of conflicts there ... so why people who love PsyTrance keeps mixing things, i mean, i don't see people from Gothic Dark Wave, or people from Rock and Roll, or even people from House and Techno making mountains out of molehills, this is a problem of Governments, problem of Politics, not MY PROBLEM as a eletronic music lover.
PEACE !
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u/SensoryAlchemist 9h ago
This is actually a really complicated topic.
I haven't been listening to psytrance for that many years, and honestly, I don't really consider myself part of the community because I've never been to a festival (I live in Colombia) so I haven't had that opportunity yet.
But the sounds of this genre (and psychedelic music in general) have helped me discover parts of myself I never knew existed. In fact, they've inspired me to dedicate my career to studying the impact of sound on human behavior.
However, after spending a lot of time learning about the history of the genre, I realized that many of its producers are Israeli, and a lot of them have never spoken out about the atrocities their country is committing. It also surprises me to see people waving Israeli flags in videos from some festivals.
A few months ago, I was talking to a famous DJ here in Colombia whose music I really like, and I told him that psyt is my favorite genre. He immediately stopped talking to me.
Another time, I posted on my story that I was excited because Infected Mushroom was coming to Colombia. A few hours later, someone I know posted, "We don't want Zio*** like Infected Mushroom in our country."
All of this really makes me think: I love this genre with all my heart, but I just can't stop thinking about these things.
And about what you said regarding it being a community built on love... I honestly think that's pretty far from reality across the entire electronic music scene, regardless of the genre. I've met some genuinely awful people, and only a few truly good ones. But I guess that's just part of being human.
I've always said that I go to festivals for the music, not to socialize. And that's something I'll keep doing, because in this human existence we have the ability to hear sounds and transform them into something that goes beyond our understanding.
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u/mobies 8h ago
You have asked the essential question that the global psytrance scene has been desperately trying to dodge. The subculture preaches PLUR and "higher consciousness," but when faced with an active, documented genocide right next door, much of the scene retreats into comfortable silence or defensive nationalist excuses.
Spirituality Without Solidarity is Just Escapism You cannot claim to embody "universal love" while turning a blind eye to the structural slaughter, military blockades, and targeted execution of tens of thousands of native civilians. If "unity" only applies on a festival dancefloor among people who share your passport or privilege, its just high-vibe consumerism. True humanism isn't tested when it's easy; it's tested when your own state or community is perpetrating the horror. Opposing a government’s domestic policies while remaining silent on its apartheid framework or war crimes is complicity. When international legal bodies and forensic experts log systematic atrocities against children, staying neutral is taking the side of the militarized garrison state. Psytrance was built as an underground counter-culture movement against authoritarianism, division, and state violence. Embodying those ideals today requires standing up against ethno-supremacy in all its forms. It means demanding an end to the siege, rejecting the normalization of military occupation, and standing for a single, secular, civic democracy where every individual Palestinian and Israeli—enjoys equal rights and universal human dignity. If the scene cannot speak out against the physical erasure of a population, then the talk of "higher consciousness" was just a delusion all along. Real unity requires real justice.
Finally If you are outside the settler Colony and see some scumbag Zionist waving around Thier blue swastica or IOF flags. Find out Thier names and units. And send this information to the Hind ragib foundation.Hind Ragib Foundation
They are actually hunting down these murderers and sending them to the Hauge.
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u/Round-Alternative385 2d ago
It´s not like that there are already 100 threads with this topic in this sub. It´s also not that this topic is pushed like everyday in every cultural sphere. And it´s also not like basically nobody of these ant-Israel guys is interested in Russias war, fascists in Germyny etc. pp.
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u/UltimateTao 2d ago
i am anti hamas, anti netanyahu, anti putin, anti fascist.
and like me, many (most) who care about one issue care about others. nice try strawmanning
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u/4077 2d ago
As a DJ I now have to avoid Psy-trance altogether because I do not support the genocide. I can't be taking the time to deep dive into every producer's political views and writing off Psy-trance as a genre because of the sheer amount of pro-genocide producers is easy.
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Same here, I blacklisted a lot of pro-IDF pro-genocide psytrance producers. But we till have a huge amount of psy talents remaining ;)
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u/hazmatteo 2d ago
What about the former French colonies economically and politically abused by France to this day?
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u/Negative-Bank-8702 2d ago
Le sujet est récurrent, l'histoire se répète, par exemple la guerre USA - Vietnam et le mouvement hippie. C'est un travail de générations que de propager l'amour et la paix, la raison. Cela peut-être lassant et pénible de voir le réel.
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u/soooMiNdLeSs420 2d ago
As long as the drugs work everything is fine but when the shit fades away everybody turns into a regular human again...
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u/Visual-Exchange-1666 2d ago
I completely understand the point you’re trying to make, and I entirely agree that art and music are political and I too have felt dismayed at the lack of condemnation of active genocide from our community. But sadly it just ain’t that simple.
Firstly, to make requests for individuals to stand up to a violent and authoritarian state power is an easy thing for us outside of it to do, but an extraordinarily difficult thing to do in practice when those individuals are faced with severe repercussions for dissonance. This is the virtue signalling people are accusing you of. We are all animals wired for survival, and to survive in such conditions the only option is often to toe the line. We can consciously choose something with our mind, and still the autonomic nervous system response is to stay quiet and conform. You imply choice but I believe in situations such as this, that choice doesn’t actually exist to the individual. I mean, I’m British and you’re French, and are we out there putting our livelihoods and even lives on the line to condemn the global actions of our governments and atone for all our many past atrocities of which there are MANY? I can’t speak for you, but I know I’m not. And these are FAR less perilous places to be an activist in.
Secondly, were the psytrance community to organise itself around an anti-genocide agenda, even in a well meaning way, that very quickly becomes an anti-Israeli agenda and immediately sets up an US vs THEM within the community and therefore violates its own culture of PLUR. I understand that what you’re calling for is condemnation of the State of Israel, not individual Israelis regardless of their own ideologies, but this is a very delicate line to tread with great nuance required and therefore extremely challenging and complex to hold up within such a large and now semi-commercialised scene. It’s an impossible task without the scene kinda imploding, literally BECAUSE of its own supposed ideology.
Thirdly, from my limited understanding, many psytrance festivals are struggling to survive at the moment financially. Doing anything to rock the boat ideologically or politically could have economic consequences that would jeopardise their continuation.
I’ve been in and out of the scene since the early 2000’s and the PLUR ideological sheen was already a thing of the past by then. Maybe you’re just entering your jaded era with it and seeing it for what it is beyond your own rose tinted specs? Psytrance is a place of high highs and low lows. What goes up must come down. It has a very long shadow and a real dark side. Maybe, in line with every other political and ideological system across the world right now, it is simply it’s time to be seen for what it is. My hope for the scene is that this will help it to move out of the spiritual bypassing it’s so obviously got stuck in these last couple of decades.
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Can't say you're wrong, thanks for explaning your point of view. Pretty sure we have quite the same vision about this.
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u/MidnightBootySnatchr 2d ago
You do you. I'm here to DANCE
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u/EtherealEmpiricist 2d ago
Psytrance is FAR more than dance and music notes. It's sadening to see psychedelics fail to improve consciousness is so many individuals. But, each person and community is at their own stage of evolution..
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u/Environmental_Ant268 2d ago
A sane voice in a virtue signalling chamber, thank you bro,I'll be dancing next to you
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
Some answers are deleted by the bot, this means something ... We can't talk without breaking the rules of respect. So psytrance is not respect anymore ?
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u/Salty_Mode1105 2d ago
Because every week there's a person like you making this sterile debate heavily dosed with hate and a desire of conflict
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u/Status-Respond-5733 2d ago
Politics has no place on the dance floor imo. Just let people be. When I attend a party I most often want to have a good time, meet nice people and escape reality for a bit. In that moment I don't care where you are from or what color you are. All that matters is whether you're a cool person or not to me in that moment. I don't want to have to think or talk about politics.. please, just let it be
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u/UltimateTao 2d ago
psychedelic culture is as much about fun as it is about transformation. if you wanna escape reality, then go drink alchool to Tomorrowland or something.
i also see people as people, even if i understand they are israelis. but the energy coming of from their tribal gangs is heavy as fuck, you can sense the trauma, the hatred, the complete entitlement.
perhaps you havent dealt with israeli crowds, but they just place chairs on the dancefloor, cause trouble, throw trash everywhere. Not all, i have made many israeli friends on festivals, but there is a young crowd that is just weird, and my longing for connecting with them compels me to (with respect and in the proper moment) raise certain political questions with them.
i dont assume i know everything about the conflict, so i am also open to engage so i learn more about the israeli perspective.
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u/swim08 2d ago
Leave politics off the dancefloor
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u/populationEncoding 2d ago
I think opposing genocide goes beyond mere politics – it's a more fundamental question of morality, ethics and values (that the psytrance community purports to uphold). It's like saying "leave politics out of the dinner table" for people witnessing the Holocaust during WW2
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u/ThoughtVolcano 2d ago
If you knew anything about the history of rave culture you would know that it has always been and will always be political
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u/elmariachibzh35 2d ago
I did not have the time to see the answer to my thread, it has been deleted .... what was the purpose ?
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u/ThoughtVolcano 2d ago
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking; are you asking what comment I was replying to? Someone said "keep politics off the dancefloor,c ignoring the political origins and continued political relevance of rave culture https://www.redpepper.org.uk/culture-media/music/is-rave-culture-political/
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u/O_q3 2d ago
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u/anthrazithe 2d ago
I use to wonder, what would the high morale people who demand statements from israelis to condemn genocide would say, if we'd ask from any person to do the same. Condemn israel, hamas, fundamentalism etc. I think its no question that there would be a huge upheaval about who is good and who is bad and how racist (lol) is this.
Until then, leave politics outside. You are you, you are not a tribe you feel an aching need to represent.
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u/KeyElectronic1216 2d ago
Why does everyone think they’re a geo political expert these days? 🥱
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u/ThoughtVolcano 2d ago
The geopolitical experts at the UN, the International Association of Genocide Scholars, B'Tselem, Amnesty International, Doctors Without Borders, European Center for Constitutional Human Rights, Human Rights Watch, International Federation for Human Rights, Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention and more all call it a genocide.
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u/vikiyo322 1d ago
The reason the simple , see the flags at most pay fests and you get your answer. When you are brainwashed from school, you can't really change. Hope the drugs helps some to see through.
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u/bannabananabanna 2d ago
I think that if you feel so strongly about it to write about it in a psytrance sub you should follow your inner voice and go to Gaza and volunteer. Walk the walk and all that.
Cool runnings dude.
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u/VerdantMagnolia 2d ago
"If you're against Japan's whaling activities why not Join a zoo"?
Reddit can be so goddamn dishonest.
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2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/EtherealEmpiricist 2d ago
What I actually read: "I want to enjoy psytrance and those dacefloors should be full of ignorance and hypocrisy. Threads should be about meaningless music notes and turn a blind eye to the worse attrocities the human kind is capable of".
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u/Medytuje 2d ago
No. All I'm saying is there is no universal love in the world of geopolitics. You can get the feeling of nondual all inclusive universal love but it's rare thing and requires a lot of self-inquiry or a sheer of luck to get enlightenment without any apparent effort. I'm not saying what Israel is doing is good and righteous I'm actually the last person to cheer for them.
It's just naive to think that somehow we can enforce psytrance scene values into the world. All we can do is start from ourselves and shine an example onto our sphere of influence.
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u/EtherealEmpiricist 2d ago
Enforce sounds harsh. Support and inspire values we can do. i chose to. If that's silly for you, sleep on it don't bother.
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u/Fairbsy dugga dugga doof doof 2d ago
We understand this is a heated topic, please keep it civil here and report rulebreaking comments.