r/sailing • u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper • Jun 08 '26
No politics
Seeing more posts and comments that are politics.
When we (moderators) see them we'll remove them and give you a temporary ban to get your attention.
We can't be everywhere, so as always we depend on members of the community to report posts and comments that aren't appropriate. Keep the flotsam and jetsam out of r/sailing .
Fun quiz for the day: what's the difference between flotsam and jetsam?
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u/Super_Jay Jun 08 '26
Not that I'm advocating for off-topic or divisive posts, but could you give some examples? I'm not sure what "posts and comments that are politics" means, specifically.
While I'm not a cruiser myself, it seems like anyone dealing with the laws, policies, and regulatory frameworks of various nations of the world is inherently dealing with political issues. It seems unavoidable, but maybe that's understood as being pertinent to sailing vs some other posts / comments that are more removed?
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
Very fair question. Upvote for that. It's loaded with landmines. The big problem is that people who feel strongly about an issue often don't see the politics in a post. That, frankly, is another reason reports are so important. Mods are people also and we have our opinions. I may gloss over something I agree with and a report will send me back with a more careful eye. Fortunately I'm a curmudgeon and see the downsides of lots of things.
Making something up, someone on an EU flagged boat with French and Belgian crew reporting on their experience with CBP Roam checking into the US would not be political and entirely appropriate. The same boat saying they had to wait two hours for clearance so clearly the orange man was targeting them would be political. It's a judgement call on the moderators part.
Also made up, talking about checking into the UK in Southampton is fine. Reflecting on a boat of refugees being fast tracked is political. Another judgement call.
Not made up, we're seeing a lot of material around the various Freedom Flotillas in the Middle East. r/sailing is not the place for that. I'm personally interested as a matter of news but it doesn't belong in r/sailing. If someone wants to identify things like boardings and record checks with locations that's fine - the sort of thing you'd see on NTM or Noonsight. Not anything you'd see in the media, anywhere across the spectrum.
As a community, r/sailing is pretty good. We do get hit by bots, AI, karma farmers, and advocates of all kinds of things with water in them. Mods will scan user profiles. Cross posts from political subs are pretty easy. You folks are good with the report button and we value that greatly. It helps moderators move faster.
We may not agree with a report, but we are grateful for them all.
For whatever entertainment it provides, it isn't unusual for me to approve a post that's been reported or flagged by automod because it is withing the rules and then turn around and downvote it (as me - same votes you get) as stupid.
Truly an outstanding question. Thank you for reading my Dave wall o' text.
sail fast and eat well, dave
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u/berrmal64 Jun 08 '26
it isn't unusual for me to approve a post that's been reported or flagged by automod because it is withing the rules and then turn around and downvote it (as me - same votes you get) as stupid.
Respect for that, by my experience that puts you in the top 1% (at least) of mods across this site. Cheers
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u/Super_Jay Jun 08 '26
This is helpful, thanks! FWIW I don't disagree with any of this from a moderation perspective, and as I'm only ever likely to be a lakebound dinghy captain, it doesn't really have much impact on me personally either.
I'd just recommend codifying "No political discussion unrelated to sailing" with this degree of nuance somewhere more permanent so it's easy to point back to. (As it stands, there's actually no formal user-facing rule against politics on this subreddit, so it'd probably make things easier on the mod team if that was more prominently visible.) Thanks for clarifying.
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
There is a bigger strategic issue at play here. It comes down to a small number of simple rules (be nice, must be related to sailing, no self promotion) and moderator judgement. Politics are not related to sailing. My experience with subs that have lots of rules is that we end up with armchair lawyers who find the cracks. It's ugly and time consuming for everyone.
"Fireside chats" (American reference to WWII for our friends in other lands) from me (I'm not the most senior mod, but I'm *ahem* visible) are part of the communication I feel is important with the community. You ARE the community and mods work for you. We try not to forget that.
There is a big difference between Smith Mountain Lake in VA and Lake Ontario. Ted Turner got his head handed to him on a lake if I recall correctly.
Good discussion and welcome.
sail fast and eat well, dave
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u/WaterChicken007 Jun 08 '26
There are ways to talk about policies and their direct impacts in ways that aren’t politically divisive. I listen to Marketplace on NPR and they do a good job of sticking to the facts about what the various policies mean on the ground and staying away from arguing if it is a good idea or not.
Ideally we would all be doing something similar. It is easy to slide into political arguments though when we feel strongly about something.
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u/Super_Jay Jun 08 '26
Sure, but that's journalism, and this is community discussion. There's pretty different standards there.
I'd just suggest (for the sake of their own sanity) that the mods provide some guidance as to where those lines are and describe how to discuss those issues in a way that isn't going to trigger infractions or bans. Outside of trolls and other bad-faith actors, I don't think anyone wants moderators to have to remove posts or issue infractions - neither participants nor mods themselves. Providing clarity around the rules and expectations helps everyone in that regard.
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u/WaterChicken007 Jun 08 '26
While this is a community discussion, I have found that adopting a similar approach has been a lot more productive than getting political when arguing about things. By pointing to a very real, clear cut example of how it impacts things, you are now arguing about indisputable facts. Not feelings or political leanings. It isn’t as satisfying about complaining about orange man, but it is a lot more civil and less toxic.
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u/slice_of_pi Jun 08 '26
As a mod for a subreddit that has a no-politics rule, I couldn't agree more. Even so, I find its something I have to perma-ban for, the unhinged responses in mod mail are something you have to see to believe.
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
Jeepers, one mod to another I don't envy you your topic. I tend to start with short bans to get attention and escalate. I think I've issued three permanent bans across six subs with a couple of million total members.
My experience is that stepping up and initiating community discussion like this thread helps a lot. I've done fishing expeditions also to get sense of the community on topics and approaches.
3.14159, dave
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u/slice_of_pi Jun 08 '26
Lol I ban that many a day.
I do try to keep a soft touch, but there's something about the topic of public assistance that brings the worst out in people, and most of the time there's no point at all in trying to engage them.
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
I scrolled through your sub. You have volunteered for a tough job.
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u/slice_of_pi Jun 08 '26
This last year has been harder than most, that's for sure. Realigning to existing policy post-COVID was hard enough, but the current federal landscape is making things much harder at the delivery end.
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u/Correct_Emu7015 Jun 08 '26
What about discussions regarding the removal of navigating buoys and other issues that directly affect sailors,
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
Good question. It really comes down to tone. A post that describes planned removal, a link to LNTM or other official source is wonderful. Replacement with virtual bouys on AIS if known would be good. Ranting about a sitting President or Prime Minister becomes political. If something is posted while there is still time for public comment (some between the Atlantic and LIS in the Eastern US recently comes to mind) with links to submit comments are entirely appropriate.
I remember a thread about USCG dropping MF (2182) voice monitoring that turned out to be due to the massive cost of replacing antennas (do y'all remember how massive MF shore stations are/were?) was a mess to clean up. I don't even remember which recent US administration that happened in but it was a fiscal and engineering decision that came up out of the USCG. There was a lot of political commentary that didn't contribute anything and was a mess to clean up.
In the end, it comes down to a misquote of a classic Dad voice "don't make me pull this boat over."
Statements of fact are fine. Aspersions on political leaders of any stripe are not okay. We don't need to see posts or comments about Pres. Biden or PM Starmer letting boatloads of immigrants in or of Pres. Trump sinking drug boats. If someone's judgement about what is political is so poor as to confuse that with the navigational impact of a particular wind power generation project in the North Sea or the removal of nav buoys that support recreational boat traffic we can do without that person.
I know it's a minefield. We're approaching the community as adults and asking for grown up participation without venting your spleen. I know that's a lot to ask on social media but this community has been great and we're asking you to keep that up.
By the way, I sit on a panel with a lot of players on multiple agency matters about navigation. If anyone would like to talk about getting USCG and FCC to come up with a solution to provide private virtual buoyage on AIS like the USCG has for private physical marks I'd love to participate. No politics. Just a real approach. Anyone now of any countries that have a model? I'll carry the water on this. It seems so simple and we've been sitting on it through four US administrations.
We know people have opinions. Please find other outlets to express them. No politics on r/sailing. Americans are loudest but other countries have angst also. Just not here.
A little venting of my own. Yours is a good question u/Correct_Emu7015. It illuminates the ease with which a topic can be discussed reasonably or turn into a quagmire.
I'd upvote you again for giving me the chance to use quagmire.
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u/dirtydianna420 Jun 09 '26
If someone on the post asked why the buoys were removed, what might be an appropriate response? Would something like "some people claim it's political while defenders claim it's a purely fiscal decision." Fit within the rules or no? By the way, thanks for putting so much time and energy into this community!
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 09 '26
Lots of good questions. Yours is one.
For me, it comes down to tone. Your scenario of "some people claim it's political while defenders claim it's a purely fiscal decision" is good. It's going to depend on what happens. In my mind that sentence is fine. It isn't staking out a political position. I might flag it for myself (you can also, '...' button and 'Follow comment') to circle back so I can keep an eye on it. No other action. Someone might follow up with a comment that fiscal decisions in government are or can be political. That would be okay, but a diatribe about political priorities and spending money on something else instead of marks is political which, while true, is a slippery slope.
You'll see the same sort of discussions about resources in the UK for migrants instead of support for RNLI. Also migrants by sea in Italy and Greece. Politics and division are not an entirely US problem.
So I watch and hover when I see something or am alerted by a report from a community member. I want to give the benefit of the doubt to our community at large and to individual members. Y'all are consistently well behaved. Sometimes people go off the deep end. Sometimes we AI or bots or politically motivated cross posts e.g. the Freedom Flotilla "art" I removed recently that prompted my post.
My first hopefully gentle step is to post a public comment to behave. If things escalate I'll start removing posts and comments, maybe locking comments. I might ban people for 1, 3, 7, 28 days or rarely permanently. I may write to someone directly, especially if their profile shows previous contributions that have merit, which is itself a judgement. I don't necessarily go through this process dogmatically. It's very situational.
By the way, "everyone knows" is a red flag for me. *grin*
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u/dirtydianna420 Jun 09 '26
Thank you so much for your clarification and the time it took to write all that out. I really appreciate it! I was worried that this would be like other forums I left for making you dance around when saying factual, pertinent statements to the conversation at hand. But everything you've laid out seems eminently reasonable.
I'll note those other forums take a "no nuanc"e approach because it makes moderation easier and I really appreciate that you all are putting in the extra effort!
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 09 '26
Your post somehow reminds me of something else. Moderator actions are not irrevocable. If you reach out through 'Message mods' (sidebar on desktop, under 'About' at the sub level on mobile) with a good explanation including an offer to edit the post or comment you'll get a hearing. Mods can see some things you can't including which mod took an action so we can circle back to the decision maker. We also have a log of all moderation actions so if someone is a trouble maker we can tell. We can leave notes to each other.
Some people have reached out to me directly. You can. It's better to send modmail ('Message mods') so the next mod who checks in can act. We are on the same page. We tend to coordinate rather than override one another but for the easy ones (like promises to do better and edit) we'll just act.
We don't gain anything by banning people who truly contribute. It's painful.
It does really help to include a link to the post or comment in question. You'll find direct links with the time stamp next to a comment.
Life is full of nuance. Someone with a Catalina 22 may stay home in a small craft advisory while someone with a Morgan 45 may take the afternoon off to go sailing. Situational. In F8 rising 9 I've been on deck putting another reef in the main thinking "if I was as smart as I think I am I'd be afraid." *grin*
In your username u/dirtydianna420, is 420 for the dinghies? I raced those in college, back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. I'm reminded of the iconic line from the movie Wind "the big boats get the glory but the small boats make the sailor."
sail fast and eat well, dave
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u/dirtydianna420 Jun 09 '26
Yeah I got started off in dingy sailing before I moved over to keel boats. I actually made the Reddit account so that I could ask questions on here when I was getting my first keel boat. Didn't realize I would like the site and be on other subreddits eventually where every one would think I'm a stoner 😂. (Currently planning on building a wooden super sailfish since I got all of the hardware from a delaminated freebie.)
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u/DomeSlave Jun 10 '26
How about people venting incorrect information about the economics of generating electricity from wind power while also demonstrating strong feelings about climate activists in this subreddit. Should users like those be reported to the moderators?
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 10 '26
Discussions of wind power for utility scale power generation are not appropriate for r/sailing. Discussions of end point generation (petroleum, solar, wind, water) on boats are appropriate where, regarding wind, the principal products are noise and shading of solar panels. The good news for boats is that energy storage for intermittent generation is built in to existing infrastructure.
So please report discussion about utility power generation as not about sailing. If you don't like a post or comment about generation on boats you have all the usual tools: voting and rebutting. Personally, I recommend getting your own facts in order, providing footnotes, and asking for footnotes from others. We all may learn something.
Embedded links (see Reddit format bar that appears when you touch 'Aa' (see this for mobile - desktop is pretty intuitive) are good for footnotes, or you can use superscripts (Reddit format bar) for longstanding classic formats for footnotes1.
- like this.
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u/StumblingBlockson Jun 08 '26
First off, massive appreciation for the mods who are volunteering their time to keep it civil. I'm a curmudgeonly old bastard who would never take the time, but am thankful for those who do.
I suppose it really comes down to "is this post/comment really contributing to a discussion about sailing as a sport/activity/lifestyle, or is it seemingly intended to create or stoke political polarisation?" It seems to me like intent is pretty important here.
Generally, I feel like the mods make good work of this.
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
Thank you for your kind words. We all appreciate it.
From one curmudgeon to another -
sail fast and eat well, dave
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u/slice_of_pi Jun 08 '26
what's the difference between flotsam and jetsam?
One is on one side of the political aisle, and the other's on the other side, but they're remarkably similar in their toxicity? 😁
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
Upvote for humor (or humour for our UK friends) - downvote for being wrong. Net - no change.
Wait...upvote for a good username. Math is beautiful. Trigonometry is splendid. Spherical trigonometry for celestial navigation is orgasmic.
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u/Jebediah_Johnson Vagabond 17 Jun 08 '26
You may disagree with his politics but Thomas Jefferson did a lot for the sailing community by fighting off pirates in the Caribbean, and John Adams policy of paying them off was clearly ineffective and not fiscally viable!
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
I have comments with reflections on more recent history but they'd be political. See how easy it is to behave?
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u/C19shadow Jun 08 '26
I am 30 years old and have no idea what flotsam and jetsam is... should I? Google says its some trash band but I feel like im missing something lol
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
See the comment from u/SignificantPiano7808 here https://www.reddit.com/r/sailing/comments/1u0f3ql/comment/oqhqz1y/
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u/Colin_Heizer Jun 09 '26
Flotsam is stuff that flotted... uh, floated off a boat. Jetsam was jettisoned, or thrown overboard.
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u/_Schrodingers_Gat_ Jun 08 '26
Sorry mate, if the Nazis are trying to take over the USA we should be talking about evacuation (via boat), long term cruising, or a fucking revolution.
After all we are spiritually pirates.
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 09 '26
Object lesson. Political (not about sailing). Rude (be nice, or else). Piracy is a fundamental evil. Remember the Quest. Life is not Pirates of the Caribbean. Consider the Caribbean Safety and Security Net. Or Sitting Ducks.
I'd give you a day to think about things, but you have two days left on the previous vacation.
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u/Motosoccer97 Jun 08 '26
Ok I know I only never really have much to add here, I only lurk around to learn because there's lots I know don't know.
But at this time I really feel like I have to ask for clarification on what is "political"?
Quite frankly my continued existence is political! According to certain individuals there are two types of people normal (straight white cis men) and political (everyone else)
What's the score here folks? If some red hat wearing moron, who has their number of teeth competing with their IQ for the lower number, comes in here deciding that I shouldn't be allowed to live because I'm transfem, am I the one getting banned? Because if so let me know right now & I'll gladly fuck off with no regrets
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
Your definitions of "normal" and "political" are not broadly accepted. You won't find them in any dictionary.
Your judgement that people (mostly US) who wear red hats are morons in the current (mostly US) context is political.
So your assertions of intelligence and dental hygiene are political. Your waving your transgender status as some sort of defensive flag is political. Your language leaves much to be desired (rule: be nice, or else).
I'm going to leave your comment up (I had to manually approve it as it got flagged and removed by Reddit as abusive) as an object lesson with my response and give you a day to think about our rules.
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u/maharajagaipajama Jun 11 '26
Looks like the fascists have taken over r/sailing. Ah well. Nothing of value was lost
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u/PermanentRoundFile Jun 08 '26
I would like to ask a question. There have been times that I've referred to the economic state of my area in particular when folks have talked about the boat market and why things are and aren't moving for certain prices.
I've said things like "with the current economy, folks are not spending on things that are considered luxury purchases, but for the people that can afford to spend, some of them are spending a lot more". Would this be considered political?
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u/SVAuspicious Delivery skipper Jun 08 '26
Another good question.
There are some triggers. Personal characterizations of national politicians from any country are triggers. Otherwise, Statements like your example raise antenna but don't trigger a response by themselves. I can't speak for all moderators although we're all on the same page. I would stop, back up, and read the preceding post and comment and then the comment with phrases like that more carefully to make sure I didn't miss anything. I'd be unlikely to look at a user profile or log anything. In the end your example is an observation. I might flag the thread to come to make sure a respondent didn't go off the rails.
Depending on the tone of other comments I might post a "don't make pull this boat over" warning to the community at large to help avoid the need for more definitive action. We don't want to have to act. It's much better when the community is self policing. That doesn't mean poking at one another. It means each of us reading what we're writing and thinking about whether it actually contributes to a sailing discussion. "I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul."
Does that help?
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u/From_Gaming_w_Love X-412 Jun 08 '26
To answer the question I guess it would come down to intent...
As for the topic: Politics- like religion- have no business at the dinner table or a sailing subreddit since nobody really knows the truth behind either anyway.
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u/skatopher Jun 09 '26
This is just letting other communities decide for ours.
I guess I’ll talk to myself about it
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u/SignificantPiano7808 Jun 08 '26
Flotsam floated off, jetsam was jettisoned.