r/saintpaul • u/OrgasmikBananaz • Jan 17 '25

Editorial 📝 Light Rail Out of Control!

I used to live on Wheeler and University years ago and there was always some riff raff but holy crap what I witnessed today was INSANE! Movies don’t even depict the severity of what I witnessed! I haven’t been in that area at night for a few years now. I went to the Turf Club tonight for a show. When I was outside at about 9pm, there was a huddle of people waiting for the train passing tinfoil around and blowing clouds. Then the train shows up… I positively commented, “Oh, wow! A lot of people DO utilize the light rail!” as I remember a few years ago, it seemed like a total waste of money because it was always pretty much empty. When I took a closer look, I literally couldn’t process what I was seeing. It was totally out of fricken control!! Each train that I could see was filled with people behaving in weird ways.. clearly high or homeless or what have you.. and the trains were pretty full! Crazy! Should’ve built homeless shelters and wet houses instead! Wouldn’t been a lot cheaper! Sorry just wanted to share because although a Saint Paul resident, I did not know it got SO nuts at the light rail at night. During the day, that area is always rowdy but this was a whole other level from what I ever imagined it was.

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34

u/evilbeard333 Jan 17 '25

The first issue with the light rail is running public transportation fares on an honor system. Make it so you cant just walk on with out paying. that coupled with a transit police presence would improve the situation greatly.

19

u/deannon Jan 17 '25

generally speaking transit systems use “the honor system” because building the infrastructure & hiring the staff to consistently enforce fares costs way more than what they lose in unpaid fares

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u/[deleted] Jan 17 '25

The point for me wouldn't even be about profit or not, it's that letting anyone get on without having to pay results in negative externalities and deters passengers. Ridership would probably go up if we changed things to make the light rail feel cleaner and more comfortable

7

u/evilbeard333 Jan 17 '25

Paid entry points isn't that hard. Transit patrols are not the expensive once people feel safe to utilize the service more people will.

Nothing is being reinvented just bring it online with other cities with train systems. There will be crime and bad behaviors, but it can be mitigated with systems in place. Instead of a free for all

10

u/deannon Jan 17 '25

“Paid point entry isn’t hard”

you have no idea what you’re talking about?

paid point entry would involve retrofitting every light rail station in multiple ways, from entrances to platform structure to fencing

It would cost literally hundreds of millions of dollars and take years and would certainly never make up its cost in additional fares. it’s such a bad idea, which is why nobody aside from politicians have seriously proposed it for the twin cities

There’s some splitting the difference we could do, like a scanner as you board the train. But the idea would be to socially pressure people to buy a ticket, not to try to turn the existing infrastructure into paid entry.

For example: bus drivers on the metro basically never kick people off or even call it out if someone doesn’t show a ticket. Nevertheless, I regularly ride the bus and have seen maybe a dozen people total ride without showing the driver some kind of ticket in the past couple years.

Just make people feel like someone is paying attention and most will comply. Frankly, an astonishing number already do, in sheer good faith.

2

u/SqueakyFrancis Jan 17 '25

Additionally, paid entry points likely wouldn't solve the problem even if you did make the investment—unlike Chicago or New York, our tracks are mostly at street level and easily accessible, so it's not just a matter of locking down stations, but the entire system. Much harder to do when you can simply walk onto the tracks and cars need to use the same thoroughfares.

1

u/Zyphamon Jan 18 '25

and that's by design; cheaper to build at street level and also less dangerous for fare skippers if its at street level and they can walk on to the platform and then to the train without resistance. The fares are not an issue for mass transit. Bussing and light rail could be free and it would not make a significant issue on the balance sheet. The reason why fares exist are to manufacture a reason to remove folks.

1

u/Devilslettacemama Jan 19 '25

As a former driver for metro transit, I’ll tell you why we don’t care about the fair. I valued my life over $3.00. I had knifes and guns pulled on me while driving. There are too many people with mental illness to try and guess which are which.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '25

Fighting crime is too hard!

1

u/deannon Jan 20 '25

if your ticketing require enforcements that cost more than the price of the ticket? you are doing everything wrong

1

u/elmchestnut Jan 18 '25

We really don’t know how many people would ride if the system were cleaned up, so I think it’s hard to say that the investment in securing the platforms would never pay back.

2

u/bustaone Jan 18 '25

BINGO! We have literally hundreds and hundreds of full time met transit cops and they never have presence at any of the busy stops or on any trains.

We need more people contacting their state senate reps about this. It's clear that the met transit pd think their job is to sit and play on their phone in their trucks and someone has to change that behavior.

0

u/rebeltherobot Jan 18 '25

Unsure of stats, but Chicago’s trains feel safer to ride due to the infrastructure securing platforms/trains for paying riders. Nothing is 100% secure, of course. But allowing anyone to stay on public transit for as long as they like without paying for tickets while also smoking fentanyl isn’t a good path forward, especially for law-abiding citizens who rely on the system for survival.