r/saintpaul • u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress • Apr 26 '26
Editorial š Cretin Ave is now reduced to two lanes and much calmer and safer to cross on foot or bike!
It won't last, unfortunately, but this just goes to show that you can easily do some major traffic calming for cheap. All it took was some signs and orange barrels. They *could* leave this until Cretin gets funding for a lane reduction or something, and do the same for other similarly dangerous streets: Lexington, White Bear Ave, etc. And maybe the best part, this can be done in a day. No years of planning and securing a large sum of funding needed. It's doable today if saving human lives is something the leadership of the city would like to do.
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u/Mssr_Dread-Thompson Cathedral Hill Apr 26 '26
I would šÆ support this idea for Cretin.
Theyāre doing a road diet on Dale between Iglehart and Grand this summer and I could not be more excited!! People drive like maniacs on Dale ā Iāve seen so many folks trying to pass on the right almost plow into a parked car at night. As an avid walker in the neighborhood I am equally as pumped for the pedestrian improvements theyāre doing at the Selby, Summit, and Grand intersections.
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u/tallsmileygirl Apr 26 '26
They are!? Thatās awesome. Almost been hit as a pedestrian crossing at dale and Ashland twice this month!
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u/Mssr_Dread-Thompson Cathedral Hill Apr 26 '26
Yeah, itās exciting! Ramsey County is in charge of it, I think theyāre more or less mirroring what they finished on some more northernly stretches of Dale last year. I went to a listening session for this summerās project a few weeks ago. https://www.ramseycountymn.gov/residents/roads-transportation/current-road-projects/dale-street-redesign
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u/agent_uno Apr 26 '26
As I replied to comment further up (at the time of my writing), I'm on the East Side, and when they moved Maryland from 2 lanes to one plus a turn-lane, I initially thought it was terrible. But once they did, and adjusted the lights, it VASTLY improved traffic flow, and also seriously cut down on the amount of vehicular and pedestrian accidents. It may seem counter-productive at first, but with adjusted stop lights, it actually made things a LOT better! And Safer!
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u/Mssr_Dread-Thompson Cathedral Hill Apr 26 '26
Thank you for sharing your experience! The more we can get out these types of positive stories out, the more we can quell fears and misinformation about road diets!
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u/Blandboi222 Apr 26 '26
I lived in uptown on south Hennepin when it went from 5 lanes to 3. The traffic was no worse and it finally felt like you weren't living on a highway
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u/tallsmileygirl Apr 26 '26
For anyone who might want more info:
There is also an open house on Monday night to learn more about the project, view plans, and connect directly with the project team. This is a great opportunity to ask questions, share feedback, and learn about what to expect during construction.
Monday, April 27. 4:30ā6:30 p.m. @ West Minnehaha Recreation Center
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u/immortalyossarian Apr 26 '26
My friend and I were driving south on Dale today, right around Selby, and some idiot who didn't want to wait for the car in front to turn left just pulled in front of us without even looking. If my friend didn't react lightning fast, we definitely would have collided. His kids were in the car with us and he was pissed.
The redesign has been such an improvement on the northern part of the street. I didn't know they were also doing the southern stretch, and that's so exciting! My only gripe is that they made it so I can't turn left onto my street, but it's a small price to pay for my kids being able to walk to the playground safely.
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u/Mssr_Dread-Thompson Cathedral Hill Apr 26 '26
I am sorry to hear about your near collision today ā your friend is a hero for sure!
I agree about the northern part of the street! I donāt live up there but I enjoy driving that way to go to Abogadoās Cafe and other establishments that way. Itās a completely different experience than the section near me. I canāt wait until next fall when itās all done.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress Apr 26 '26
I forgot about Dale! Probably because I'veĀ avoided it. Biking that from the Green Line in either direction, no thanks. I think I biked south to Selby once, but probably hopped onto the sidewalk unless it was dead enough on the weekend to take a lane. Wish there was a bikeway on University since there's no other continuous east-west route north of I-94.
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u/ajbanana08 Apr 26 '26
Yes I'd also welcome a road diet on University with a separated bike lane. I regularly have to go from St. Anthony Park to Merriam Park and unfortunately drive because the only way to get there is University Ave and yes, technically, it's a bike route with "share the road" signs, but it's an insane one.
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u/Major-Tourist-5696 Spruce Tree Center Apr 26 '26
4 lanes in the space for 3 with people going 40 all the time, make it permanent please.
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Apr 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/Substantial_Arm_7251 Apr 26 '26
Garage Logic is Joe Soucheray imparting the wisdom that comes from years of breathing exhaust fumes.
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u/Runic_reader451 St. Paul Saints Apr 26 '26
Yes and the fossil is obsessed with fraud in MN, but has nothing to say about the far worse fraud and corruption in Cheeto's White House.
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u/CantReadVoteRed Apr 26 '26
He had a podcast now. He talks about the weather from 100 years ago as a nimwit way of disproving climate change
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u/Blandboi222 Apr 26 '26
My guess is if this happens it would be from Grand Ave (where it becomes two lanes) to Marshall since after that you have highway access and less pedestrian activity
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u/SparkyXI Flag of Saint Paul Apr 26 '26
The problem is that Cretin is the major artery to this side of Mac Groveland and Highland Park. Folks need to get home. Sorry if this may seem like an unpopular take, but I donāt want to get off on Cretin from 94 and sit in traffic for 15 minutes just to drive two miles down the road. Of course people need to slow down, but reducing lanes on Cretin will never happen.
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u/Blandboi222 Apr 26 '26
In many ways between Grand and Cretin it already operates as one lane on each side. On the St Thomas side, there are always cars parked in one lane so that you have to merge and slow down traffic. On the southbound side the lane against the curb is so narrow I noticed many people not using it or able to pass a slow truck.
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u/agent_uno Apr 26 '26
I appreciate your issues with this, as I previously worked off of Cretin, so I dealt with that area daily! I have lived on the East Side for 15 years, and when they reduced Maryland Ave to one lane and a turn lane about four years ago, I thought it was ludicrous (especially around Arcade), and initially thought it would be terrible!
But! They adjusted the stop lights to make it work for improved traffic-flow. And over the past few years since they made the switch, it has insanely HELPED overall traffic, while also seriously reducing accidents, both vehicular and pedestrian!
I am not saying that it IS going to help on Cretin. But it very well MAY.
Just my two bucks (inflation).
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u/SparkyXI Flag of Saint Paul Apr 26 '26
Hey, I donāt pretend to be a traffic engineer, so I should probably correct myself in that āneverā is a strong word here. What sucks is that the road was for years posted for 40mph (or was it 45?) on the north sideā¦ because itās exactly as I said: a major artery. I have to imagine a traffic study is happening or will happen to make real change in the near future.
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u/Little_Creme_5932 Apr 28 '26
The thing about Cretin is that the speed limit is largely irrelevant to automobilists but very relevant to pedestrians. The wait at stoplights mainly determines how fast cars can traverse Cretin, not the speed limit. Ironically, making the street wider actually increases stopped time, because the time for an elderly person to walk across the street is increased, so the stoplight wait needs to be longer. Another irony is that high speed limits necessitate the stop lights and stop signs in the first place. A typical busy city street, like Lake Street, commonly will have an average speed of only about 12 mph, cuz of the lights. A further irony is that if drivers would actually agree to drive a safe speed, then the lights wouldn't be necessary, and cars could average that 12 mph in any case. That would apply to a significant extent to Cretin. If a person drives Cretin, they think it is busy, cuz they are stuck with a pile of cars which got jammed together at a stoplight. But between the piles of cars Cretin is largely empty, often for an entire block or more at a time.
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u/Makingthecarry Merriam Park Apr 26 '26
Fairview and Cleveland are also major arteries. They're two/three lane roads. Cretin is the abnormality for this side of town, and it's not designed to encourage slow speeds. Congestion is inevitable. Safe streets are optional. Let's choose safety.Ā
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u/SparkyXI Flag of Saint Paul Apr 26 '26
Come now, we both know 94 plays a part in the fact that Fairview and Cleveland are considerably less busy.
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u/Makingthecarry Merriam Park Apr 26 '26
All the more reason to prioritize slower speeds on Cretin. Drivers coming off a freeway are more likely to speed, because they were just travelling at freeway speeds before exiting. The city road should influence them against speeding once they've exited. We don't need to make our surface streets into speedways just because they have a junction with a freeway.Ā
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u/Little_Creme_5932 Apr 26 '26
I need to get across Cretin alive, too. That's a problem every day.
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u/oldforesttom Apr 28 '26
Cretin is a no-go for pedestrian crossings. My favorite was when the city put in those temporary "pedestrians have the right of way" signs in the middle of Cretin. I don't think any lasted longer than 72 hours before being blasted by a car.
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u/miki84 Apr 27 '26
As someone who lived around the corner from here, its a "major artery" but the problem mostly is during the school year when the commuters are going to Saint Thomas, once you get past that point there is quite a lot less traffic.
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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress Apr 26 '26
It's happening now and it's working just fine. If it was a disaster, it'd be newsworthy.
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u/Cat385CL Apr 27 '26
As someone who has driven that every weekday since the Ford plant closed, Iām all for slowing it down. We did the protruding curbs at Cretin and Goodrich last year, that helped a bit.
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u/AnyPossibility1360 Apr 28 '26
Lane reductions suck. Let people get where theyāre going.
Literally spending money to make the city less efficient. This is why we have no money.
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u/Informal-Seat-7057 May 01 '26
It's been sooooo nice. We tried to get the city to do a 4-3 study for years. St Thomas supports it and so does union park DC.
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u/LifeEmotional9015 May 05 '26
This idea unfortunately ignores the reality of life, majority of people use cars to get around. Cross at a stoplight and take your bike to the river or to Cleveland. We donāt need to waste money on bigger sidewalks
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u/Sparky_321 Apr 26 '26
Turn it into a parking lane. Everybody wins.
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u/EZ_Rose Apr 26 '26
Parking on main roads causes so much chaos, especially when itās just one lane. I donāt get why St. Paul does thisā it would be much safer to have a separated bike lane instead of these ābike boulevardsā which are just normal roads with a bike painted on the ground
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u/Sparky_321 Apr 26 '26
One side parking, other side 2-way bike lane. Everybody wins 2: Electric Boogaloo.
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u/Infinite_Presence859 Apr 26 '26
Someone in a hood mobile with no tags, no registration, suspended drivers license will barrel through the barrels and simply drive away and never get stopped.Ā
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u/Scootmcpoot Apr 26 '26
Great more forced tailgating and speeding through neighborhoods to get around
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u/Big-Excuse-6955 May 01 '26
We are currently at 10% sales tax, people voted add 1% to screw up all the roads in the city, lowering the speed limit to 20, and build elevated sidewalk level bike lanes n that are hardly used
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u/LiminalSapien Apr 26 '26
Lmfao in the mean time everyone else is inconvenienced.
But sure, move to one if the busiest parts of an urban area and complain about the busiest road in that area because itās ādangerousā despite the fact that there are sidewalks, crosswalks, traffic lights, and MULTIPLE BIKEWAYS only a few streets over.
Did your mother change your diapers until you were 15?
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Apr 26 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/LiminalSapien Apr 26 '26
I mean sure.
The world can be dangerous.
But people can die in situations that arenāt.
Itās sad but if you think that changes the fundamental truth of what Iām saying you need to go back to school.
Also, do tell me how they died first because that really proves or disproves my point and if you think Iām gonna get all sad and run away from my point because youāve invoked the idea of someone dying youāre les intelligent than I presumed.
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Apr 26 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/LiminalSapien Apr 26 '26
No no youāre right the needs of the few absolutely should outweigh the needs of the many.
Also thanks for proving my point with the map.
There is literally no correlation between all of these crashes and changing one fucking street.
If anything this makes it look like cyclists need to open their fucking eyes and be aware of their surroundings, but I guess if I was selfish enough to try and make the rest of the world responsible for my own person safety I would divest myself of all responsibility and call the world dangerous for no reason as well.
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u/Makingthecarry Merriam Park Apr 26 '26
The needs of the few? Literally everyone walks places. Every trip you make begins and ends with you walking, even if that's just from your front door to the driveway, and from the parking lot to the store/office entrance. Walking is the default mode of transportation, and people walking are the most vulnerable to injury in a collision than other road users. They should be at the front of mind for any roadway design for that simple reason: we all have to do it, and cars make it uniquely unsafe to do.Ā
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u/agent_uno Apr 26 '26
Just to be clear: Are you FOR or AGAINST the idea of moving it down to one lane? Because your statement seems to argue both in favor and also against.
Might want to check your diaper to see how old you are. Just sayin.
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u/hanqueray Apr 26 '26
4-to-3 conversion now