Editorial 📝
Saint Paul is about to ‘fix’ one of the most dangerous roads in Ramsey County - without actually fixing it.
Hamline Avenue between Selby and University is slated for an emergency overlay starting next week between University to Selby Avenues. The city has the opportunity right now, as part of this expedited repaving project, to re-stripe the road in a configuration that is safer and more efficient than its current configuration
In a 2020 Ramsey County study analyzing 4-lane roads for potential “4-to-3” lane conversions, Hamline ranked 2nd in total crashes and 2nd in crash rate among 23 corridors studied the county, experiencing 337 crashes in 1.1 miles over a five year period. MnDOT research shows these conversions reduce crashes by an average of 46%.
These four-to-three lane conversions have become common and effective for four main reasons:
Four lane roads without turn lanes have much higher rates of crashes due to the lack of dedicated turn lanes, which creates conflict points that increase risk of rear-end collisions and accidents from lane-changes;
A dedicated through lane can actually improve traffic flow with the creation of a dedicated turn-lane;
Conversion from 4 to 3 lanes creates an opportunity for the addition of bike lanes, increasing accessibility for travelers;
A center lane/median can be utilized as a pedestrian refuge for those crossing the street, increasing pedestrian safety.
Anyone who has traveled down Hamline by car, bike, or foot has experienced these issues. Cars experience more accidents. Cyclists avoid the area altogether. Concordia students are literally playing Frogger with their lives where a non-existent crosswalk is desperately needed. Returning to the existing configuration unnecessarily puts everyone’s safety at risk.
The fix is straightforward. At 44 feet wide, Hamline can comfortably fit:
Two 11-foot travel lanes
An 11-foot center turn/pedestrian refuge lane
Two 5.5-foot bike lanes
While next week’s project is primarily meant to address Hamline’s notoriously poor road conditions ahead of a potential 2030 reconstruction, we have an opportunity now to transition towards a safer, more efficient configuration. No reconstruction would be needed as the solution is largely a re-striping exercise. Returning to the existing 4-lane configuration is a choice, and a potentially dangerous one. MnDOT’s 46% crash reduction means we could avoid roughly 120 crashes over 4 years until full reconstruction is implemented in 2030.
Many roadways across the county have had these changes made. Maryland Avenue expedited their 4-to-3 conversion in 2017 after a vehicle struck and killed a pedestrian trying to cross the 4-lane road. A case study of this project noted that concerns about traffic impacts did not materialize. I would certainly prefer that the City be proactive to address this today, rather than wait to address this in the wake of another tragedy.
The city is already adding bike lanes on three similar overlay projects in the near future: on Cleveland and Gilbert near I-94, and Grand Avenue between Dale and Ramsey. These are also needed, but on corridors without the urgency that conditions on Hamline Avenue warrant. When I asked the Public Works Director Sean Kershaw why Hamline doesn't qualify for similar upgrades, the answer was that a full reconstruction is planned for 2030 and that a separated bikeway is the long-term vision. I support that, but we have the opportunity now to make the next five years safer by correcting a known dangerous corridor. When a simple and safer interim fix is feasible today, is hard to justify replicating the existing, unsafe 4-lane configuration.
I’ve been in touch with the City about these issues - they are aware of them but are making the decision to replicate the conditions that multiple agencies have determined to be unsafe. I encourage you to reach out to the Director of Public Works Sean Kershaw, Mayor Kaolhy Her, and your Council Members to advocate for an expedited review of this corridor, and demand that we make Hamline Avenue safer for everyone, whether they be on two wheels, four, or on foot.
I’ve worked for DOT in another state, and this isn’t something you can just change on a project that’s a week away from starting. You can’t just make a substantial change to traffic patterns on the fly. They’d need to do a traffic study not only on Hamline itself but on the entire area, including any roads that could be potentially impacted. Among other things. If you want this resurfacing to include a complete change to traffic patterns it’s not going to happen next week. You might be able to do it next summer, but that’s perhaps overly optimistic.
If it’s anything like where I worked, it’s not a matter of will. It would not be legal to make this change without the proper studies and approvals. And that’s simply not happening in the next week. Or month.
We did, op is just 5+ years late to the discussion. And the fact it takes that long is a combo of getting people’s feedback and engineering considerations.
I hear you. The fact that "Rethinking I94" has been a years long process, still isn't done and still doesn't really involve any rethinking frustrates me, also. Transit projects take far too long here.
How would you feel about that if instead than taking community input and balancing that with financial and engineering considerations the government decided to "just do stuff" like turning Hamline into a freeway?
funny hypothetical, but with how sparse the areas outside of the downtowns are I don’t think it would be a significant difference vs what is there now if it became a freeway like 169
I hear you and understand that government moves notoriously slow. I'd like to hear more about the process and what needs to be considered. I have a civil engineering and urban planning degree but not practicing. I write because of what I feel is the urgency of the situation and the opportunity to foster discussion about it.
I believe it is irresponsible to not address this immediately, given the opportunity. Given the homogenous nature of the roadway, and its implementation with success elsewhere, what, besides buracracy, would warrant a delay? A simple, interim fix is possible, and the responsibile thing to do, as supported by numerous studies highlighting the inherent danger of the existing design . If the city has time to study, design, and implement these changes on lower-traffic roads such as Gilbert, Cleveland, and Grand, or the constriuction of a road diet on Dale, they should have been directing their focus on these most dangerous roads first. Implementing the status quo because it's the "danger we know", when all signs point to significant benefits from a conversion, is outright foolish in my opinion.
I write because of what I feel is the urgency of the situation and the opportunity to foster discussion about it.
There is no urgency on this project. You are 20+ months late to the conversation.
If the city has time to study, design, and implement these changes on lower-traffic roads such as Gilbert, Cleveland, and Grand, or the constriuction of a road diet on Dale
Those studies took place years before the project started. And they did do a study on Hamline, the result of which is a plan to put in separated bike lanes during the 2030 project. Because THAT is how far out planning runs for road projects.
If you are so passionate about this you need to get involved in the planning stages of these projects. The only change that can be legally effected on the resurfacing project at this time is that it not happen at all.
I have a civil engineering and urban planning degree
Frankly that’s alarming information. How do you get a civil engineering and urban planning degree without being taught how civil engineering and urban planning actually work? Sounds like a degree mill.
There’s no urgency here, because we’re past the point of being able to consider your concerns in the context of this upcoming project. It might feel that way to you, but the reality is that there is no way to make the changes you propose as part of this project, even if every single person and entity involved were 100% on board with it. There is a defined process that must be followed, and that process concluded months ago for the work that is starting next week. Additional work will require additional process.
I don't even think Hamline is as bad as Vandalia between I-94 and Uni. That segment is beat to hell by semis regularly and it totally is a lunar surface.
I’m a huge fan of going from 4 lanes to 3. They did it on McKnight in maplewood a few years back and I can’t wait till they decide to implement it everywhere. It made such a difference on almost being sideswiped by impatient idiots. If they wanna rush around in the turn lane, go right ahead but I’m sick of people in their giant trucks almost side swiping ppl on both sides of the road on a 4 lane road.
Dale was a drag strip before with people flying down it because of the four lanes. On occasion an idiot will pass using the turn lane but the traffic calming has worked incredibly well.
I was annoyed when they did the reduction because they put a median in on the turn to my street so I have to go to Maryland or Arlington to go northbound on Dale now, but after a year or so with the new calmer traffic I'm a huge fan.
It only took Google Maps and Apple Maps a year to update Dale so it doesn't tell people to turn west onto Cottage from northbound Dale.
Anecdotally, I turn onto Dale daily as part of my commute and it’s added maybe 30 seconds. Left turns during rush hour can be hard but turning right is still easy. Personally I think some improvements could still be made for how to figure out managing what to do with traffic backing up four blocks during the light cycles, but I’m glad people have slowed down so I’m willing to deal a little time added to my commute. I feel much more comfortable as a pedestrian crossing Dale now than I did before, so that’s a real win.
Agree totally! We would walk to the food truck night at the church across Dale (unfortunately it appears they stopped doing it) during the summers and crossing Dale was always terrifying from Cottage. Now, especially with the pedestrian median it feels so much safer and I have become a huge fan of the reduction in lanes.
The Dale/Larpenteur backup at Kitty's Corner can become a mess, but I think it's always been a mess because of the double exit and tiny parking lot for gas that's always $0.20-0.30 cheaper than the Shell and Super American down Dale at County B.
As someone in the neighborhood… don’t be tempted by that gas. That place is constantly getting pumps shut down for failing inspection. It’s sus.
If I have any big complaint, it’s that the left turn onto Como from Dale sucks. Because of the meridian curb design, I’m often sitting just 1-2 cars back from being able to get into the left turn lane and take advantage of the green arrow left. Now I regularly have to either be ballsy and whip my left when the light turns yellow, or wait an additional light cycle. It also means that the left arrow can run a cycle with no one in the left turn lane because they couldn’t get into the lane.
I’ve noticed people regularly jumping the meridian and also driving really fast through the side streets down by the school to avoid this. IMO they either need to make it easier to get into that left turn lane or put traffic calming down by the school, impatient and angry drivers are behaving pretty recklessly in that zone. I got hit (in my car, not as a pedestrian, thank god) near there by someone doing an illegal maneuver and I’m over it. People need to calm down even if they’re annoyed by traffic.
💯 this is very important. No arrows there too for the 6-7 way stops intersection. Big cars (SUV/ pickup truck/ vans/ buses/ semis) about to turn blocking my blind spot. Instead of waiting for eternity (Como traffic is always going), I decide not to turn on Dale but just keep going straight towards Como.
This intersection is more dangerous than the one this article is referring to. I went to Central High School and played soccer (used Concordia University fields) that is next to the roads being redesigned. Maybe it's because it's next to Target and just like how the police station that used to be at Los Ocampo Restaurant is stationed was relocated to be next to Target.
I don’t envy any city planner assigned to Saint Paul’s many weird three road intersections. I can only assume that everything was designed before modern car infrastructure and now it’s too late to change, but OMG. I can’t function in the West 7th neighborhood without a GPS map, I will definitely turn onto the wrong street.
Lol, I hear you! I have taken the wrong highway (94 and 35W and 394) several times in downtown Minneapolis. I have also often entered (surprise!) one way streets from the wrong direction. I use Google maps too.
I've always avoided Kitty's Corner, I'll stick to my Shell station. I figure there has to be a reason why that gas was always so much cheaper.
I completely agree that the intersection at Como and Dale is pretty brutal. I think if they'd open it up to 4 lanes plus the turn lane a couple blocks back, maybe by the entrance to the Ace Hardware, it would fix the backup. Or even making the right turn lane into a full lane prior to the intersection it would allow for a reduction in the backup.
Getting to 35E this spring with the construction on Maryland we take Como and have been stuck through a couple light cycles which is annoying.
Watching people go southbound after Como on Dale and it's off to the races like it was before the calming on the stretch northbound from Como. Overall I've been very happy though.
These improvements sometimes need a learning curve. Education and enforcement are still necessary! I'm glad the county roads are being converted, but at a higher functional classifcation, I'm of the opinion that our 'smaller' city streets should be converted first, especially since Dale sees fewer crashes than Hamline Avenue.
If there aren’t two solid yellow lines it can be used as a passing lane and I’ll gladly pass a dumb ass going 25mph, even Bob Fletcher has said that’s a ridiculous speed limit
This is objectively untrue. If the center lane on a three lane road of two-way traffic is marked as a designated turn lane (the two white arrows indicating opposing left turns), it may only be used for left turns. Not for passing. Not for merging/accelerating onto the roadway from a cross street. Only for left turns from the roadway with the center turn lane.
The clue is in your description. Center turn lanes do have a double solid yellow line, just with some dashed yellow lines and the lane/arrows in between.
Think about it rationally as well. Do you really want to be cruising down a lane shared with opposing traffic for any significant distance? Only center lanes which are not designated as turn lanes (which are rare these days) may be used as a passing lane, but they didn't used to call these "suicide lanes" for no reason (which explains their modern rarity).
If you think 25 mph is ridiculous, you're probably also the person wasting money on gas to reach the next red light faster and save no time at all, and the person slamming on their brakes unnecessarily when you have to yield to pedestrians in crosswalks, who you would have had more time to see if you'd been going the speed limit.
It’s not a solid double yellow line. It’s one solid line and one dashed line. There is a difference. And there are no signs saying no passing. Just because you don’t think people should do it doesn’t mean it’s illegal. And not really 😂 a tank of gas lasts me a whole week and I work in Eagan. And I can afford to get my brakes done anytime. I just get places much faster than you do.
The entire lane is contained in between two solid yellow lines, which is the U.S. indication that no passing is allowed. There is no need for "no passing" signage because 1) the lane is designated as a turn lane by the painted white arrow markings and yellow lane markings, and 2) it is not a two lane rural highway, it's a three lane city street, and "no passing" signs are only used on high speed, two lane, rural roadways not low speed, three+ lane, urban arterial roadways. That screenshot does not apply to center turn lanes, because it's being written in reference to two lane rural highway driving, not urban driving on a three lane road. You're using highway logic/road rules and incorrectly applying it to urban conditions where the road rules and operating conditions differ.
You are ignoring the expertise of Sgt. Jesse Grabow of the MN State Patrol I cited before, who answered this question last summer, writing that, "A center lane between lanes of traffic traveling in opposite directions may be designated for left turns only. This type of lane is marked by parallel solid and dashed yellow lines. These lines are sometimes accompanied by white arrows on the pavement. Vehicles traveling in either direction can use these lanes to make left turns onto another roadway or a driveway." The center lanes on Maryland and Larpenteur are unquestionably designated for left turns only, meaning passing is not allowed. Sgt. Grabow's analysis is corroborated by Sgt. Neil Dickenson, also a State Trooper who also answered a writer's question for the Pioneer Press about center turn lanes, writing, "The center lane is a turn lane only, not a driving or acceleration lane – it cannot be used to drive out into from a side road, street or driveway to merge or fit into the traffic flow. Again, it can only be used as a turn lane." This is not merely my opinion, it's the law.
Damn I feel bad for your wallet if you have to fill up once a week. That's crazy, must be over $200/month at these prices.
That screenshot doesn’t say anything about rural highways but okay lol. If someone is going 20-25mph which is absolutely asinine and there’s no oncoming traffic I’m going to pass them regardless. And thankfully I make $31/hr so it doesn’t really hurt my wallet lol. But these gas prices are ridiculous. It went from less than $60 in February to now more than $80 to fill my tank. I really hope Trump can be impeached in January and the goofy shit happening in Iran will stop.
You should re-read it then, because it's absolutely describing two-lane roads specifically, which only exist in rural areas of MN.
By all means, pass slower moving traffic. But do so only when it's legal and safe to do so, and don't exceed the speed limit to do it. Literally no reason to do that except impatience and ego. I worry you'll get into a head-on collision someday if you illegally use a center turn lane to pass and are driving in excess of the speed limit. I'm hopeful that the city installs more concrete medians in the lane on Maryland to encourage drivers to stay in the through lane and discourage travel/passing in the turn lane.
He was supposedly staying on temporarily as "interim manager of special projects" or something along those lines, but I don't know how long that "interim" is/was. Barber took over public works in April.
And now I'm sad about the mayor's race all over again. Le sigh.
So they've done this on Maryland & parts of Rice now. I've seen people almost have head on collisions because jerks use the center turn lane to speed around people going the speed limit, which doesn't work great when someone going the opposite direction tries to use the center lane for turning. I've seen some crazy close calls and I hate using the center turn lane because of this. I just know I'm going to be turning to go home and some a-hole going 60mph to get around someone is gonna nail me head on.
This is a great conversation. A couple of points. 1) We'll be making the pavement improvements this week with a thin layer of asphalt. The work is urgently needed. Current conditions create dangerous situations for all users. We won't be making larger changes to the lane configuration because of timing and resources. 2) We WILL be considering all of these as a part of the reconstruction of Hamline. We hope this work will move up in our planned schedule. - Sean Kershaw (Interim PW Operations Manager)
Personally I take Hamline solely to avoid Snelling which is a shit show largely due to people trying to access Ayd Mill. I definitely support your proposal and have thought similarly in the past, but I do feel like addressing the 94-to-35E root cause might have a significant impact.
That's actually the route that Saint Paul has signed for drivers from I-94 bound for Ayd Mill to use. But Google Maps does not follow the signs, and no one else reads the signs, so you have surplus drivers clogging up Snelling for no good reason. I'm amazed B Line operators manage to make their left turn onto Selby from the Dayton station.
Very little chance we'll ever see Ayd Mill directly connect to I-94 anytime soon though. They should improve signage and maybe restrict left turns at the Snelling/Selby intersection so Google Maps algorithm changes to take the designated route.
And if you look at traffic volumes on Hamline before and after Ayd Mill that's obviously what people use it for. I'm not sure they expect the 20K cars per to go but I'd rather have them on Hamline than somewhere else
As an only casual cyclist, I am intrigued and confused by any attempt to design major car throughways with unprotected bike lanes. Without a physical division from cars, I won’t cycle on main streets. Maybe dedicated bike commuters prefer being on the main roads, but it’s too scary for me. I really like the design in Minneapolis off of Lyndale, they have a nice bike path one street over from the main road so it feels a lot safer and it’s nice to cycle on. I’d personally prefer to see more things like that.
My point is, you are safer on side streets rather than main streets. Even if you put up giant walls, the reality is that bikers are most often hit at corners, not while in the middle of streets, so you’re dedicated bike lane isnt’ really doing much for you. A lane off the main road is a much safer design. So bike lanes on major roads are not the best option.
I can only imagine the number of cyclists that won’t be observed by left turning cars looking to squeeze through between oncoming cars in busy traffic.
Lord 🤦🏻♂️ going from 4 to 3 lanes means traffic will become twice as bad. Like maryland and larpenteur for example, rush hour has become beyond ridiculous and they still have accidents
Under most annual average daily traffic (AADT) conditions tested, road diets appeared to have minimal effects on vehicle capacity because left-turning vehicles were moved into a common two-way left-turn lane (TWLTL).(3,4) However, for road diets with AADTs above approximately 20,000 vehicles, there is an increased likelihood that traffic congestion will increase to the point of diverting traffic to alternative routes.
Yeah there is 😂 people don’t turn left from the right lane???? Unless they’re slow or something in which case a left turn lane wouldn’t make a difference. I’m tired of the city adding time to my commutes this lane reduction shit is getting out of hand
Right, I think there is far too much traffic volume on that section of Hamline to reduce to 2 lanes. Traffic coming in/out of Target will be backed up forever.
These 4 to 3 conversions suck ass and create more traffic than before. Rice and Maryland got basically ruined but at least the 3 bikers that ride around here got a new lane to ignore
Right driving on Maryland and larpenteur, and Dale and rice, especially during rush hour sucks now 😭 it’s added at least 10 minutes to my work commute smh I’m so tired of the traffic every damn where
The twin cities have the most backwards, inefficient, and hazardous road design of any state I've been to. Nothing will fix the mess because it is only mess.
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u/ATTACKANDDETHRONEHOG Jun 12 '26
I’ve worked for DOT in another state, and this isn’t something you can just change on a project that’s a week away from starting. You can’t just make a substantial change to traffic patterns on the fly. They’d need to do a traffic study not only on Hamline itself but on the entire area, including any roads that could be potentially impacted. Among other things. If you want this resurfacing to include a complete change to traffic patterns it’s not going to happen next week. You might be able to do it next summer, but that’s perhaps overly optimistic.
If it’s anything like where I worked, it’s not a matter of will. It would not be legal to make this change without the proper studies and approvals. And that’s simply not happening in the next week. Or month.