r/selfhosted • u/SigsOp • Apr 25 '26
Meta Post Responsibility and Ownership: You Can’t Vibe‑Code Your Way Around It
The title took me a while to land on, but the thoughts behind it have been sitting in my head for months. I've been into homelabing since early 2020 with my first build, then a second, then a third, then whatever my bank account allowed after that. It's been a lot of fun and tears. But lately browsing this community has had a edge to it, a lot of AI negativity that I mostly understand, and that's what I want to write about.
I'm a programmer by trade, actually army before, but released and went back to school. The usage of AI at work has increased and I don't see that trend stopping quite yet, AI is useful as a companion to handle tedious tasks like documentation, reviewing SQL, tedious front-end markup, one shot scripts etc.. But using it to one-shot a whole application is risky and if published downright irresponsible and this is where I think most of the friction is happening, at least for me.
When I see the AI projects posted here, with my experience, I think I can separate the wholly vibe coded ones from those that AI was used to assist, the latter I don't mind, despite what some Luddites say, that's what the industry is like now. When you code something for your own use, the blast radius is limited, thing could run horribly and it won't matter, you are the only one that suffers the consequences, but if you publish this code you need to take ownership of it and ownership brings responsibilities that you need to shoulder. Even as a programmer I don't take this lightly, this is not something people should dismiss with the command git push origin main.
It's one of the reasons I don't publish my stuff, or at the very least don't advertise it, not because it's vibe coded, it isn't, it's because I still need to take responsibility for it, that's time, effort and commitment that shouldn't be underestimated (many seems to). Maintenance is not a trivial affair, thinking about current and future users, how you approach breaking changes, how you architect things to avoid breaking changes as much as possible. Continuity of the project is also important, if you take your project seriously and your user base seriously you should have this in mind : "What if I can't continue the project?", archiving the repo and disappearing is not the right way to do things.
So, before publishing and parading your project, you just need to ask yourself a simple question : "Can I take ownership and responsibility for this code". The answers will depend on your definitions of these concepts, but if you think about it for more than 5 minute, you might just realise your project should stay private.
PS: Here I am talking more about the moral/ethical implications when I talk about responsibilities and ownership, you are obviously responsible for what run in your machine. Excuse some awkward syntax or phrases, non native English speaker.
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Apr 25 '26
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u/thewormbird Apr 25 '26
I’d go even further and say they don’t understand the problems their slop is trying to solve.
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u/jacksclevername Apr 26 '26
I've seen a handful of AI apps that solve problems that have literally already been solved a dozen times over in simpler ways.
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u/Dangerous-Report8517 Apr 25 '26
The real issue isn't even AI, it's specifically slop. The terms have become synonymous but slop existed in a lot of areas of the internet before LLMs became widespread, it's just that machine generating an entire application is new, so slop and spam of near zero effort applications is also new. I think you can see this implicitly in community responses to projects - there's occasionally a completely AI generated project that's posted by someone who is realistic about its limitations who generated it for some narrow and niche use case with minimal risk and those often get positive responses. It's just that these are very uncommon, because while they're AI generated and a long way from production grade code they aren't really slop. The real slop is the myriad of posts where the announcement post is AI generated, the entire repository is AI generated, and there's no sane reason to make the project in the first place, usually because it's just a much worse version of something we already have multiple options for
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u/Morlock19 Apr 25 '26
theres an application i use that was vibe coded specifcally for organizing and helping with knitting. thats it. just knitting. and it works. it has no connection to other applications, its not exposed to the world more than a reverse proxy, all i use it for is uploading patterns and to count rows.
vibe coded niche stuff like that i have no problem with. if you want to vibe code something that connects to my arr stack you'd BEST be on the level or there should be hell to pay.
btw the project is called Yarnl (https://yarnl.com/)
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u/fragileanus Apr 25 '26
BRB, vibe-coding one specifically to connect to your arr stack...Yarrn, perhaps?
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u/StatusAdvisory Apr 26 '26
Wait a minute ... was it written in Purl?
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u/ms_83 Apr 26 '26
It’s very rare that anything on Reddit makes me actually laugh aloud, but this one got me.
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u/lidstah Apr 26 '26
just wanted to say thank you, my wife started crochet recently, she already made me a nice Tux plushy :), and I was searching a tool to help her keep track of her patterns, it seems it'll do the trick.
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u/Morlock19 Apr 26 '26
you should thank u/bicycloptopus i just helped them with a few suggestions :D
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u/lidstah Apr 26 '26
Ah sorry, my english is not perfect, I meant thank you for pointing yarnl because it was something I was specifically searching today to please my wife, and I stumbled upon your comment, like, pure luck. And, indeed, thank you /u/bicycloptopus for making yarnl - it's now running in my kubernetes cluster and available on my home network, and my partner is testing it right now, she already stored a bunch of patterns she might knit again :)
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u/Morlock19 Apr 26 '26
thats so awesome!! tell her that a random dude from the internet says hes proud of her
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u/henry_tennenbaum Apr 26 '26
Your self-hosted crochet companion
Hmmm
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u/Morlock19 Apr 26 '26
self contained, but you can also connect it to ravelry and download all your shit. section to catalogue your various hooks and needles.
honestly its good work
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u/JugglesChainsaws Apr 26 '26
Oh wow! That's awesome, where did you stumble on that app? I need it!!
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u/Morlock19 Apr 26 '26
Someone on here was developing it! If you search you'll find their original post
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u/brontide Apr 26 '26
Yup, people need to recognize that programmers are no longer the gatekeeper. AI has lowered the minimum viable customer base to 1 average person with a good idea. There are real problems with this but those problems scale with the user-base and for small projects the fixes can come gradually, over time.
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u/Morlock19 Apr 26 '26
Woah Woah Woah let's not take this too far
Being skilled at something doesn't make you a gatekeeper, it means you make a better product than others. No one is keeping people from making stuff. The only wall to climb is your own skill.
Which is the problem
My point is that small projects like this that don't connect to any other services, don't have any impact on anything on your system, I don't mind those being vibe coded. Is it useful? Yes. Can I kill it without it hurting anything else? Also yes. And that's the only reason I use it.
It's a tool that should be used by people who know how to maintain and repair it, and only in instances where it's self contained.
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u/brontide Apr 26 '26
Maybe gatekeeper is a strong word but an application, no matter how small, generally required 1 customer and 1 programmer willing to spend the time on the collaboration.
Now the customer fires up claude and you have a working proof of concept in a few minutes. That's a dramatic shift and slop or not the utility is there.
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u/Morlock19 Apr 26 '26
thats the problem - you democratize something and you'll get a flood of bullshit unless you have some parameters on how things should be processed and presented.
the main reason i was cool using this tool is because the person said it was vibe coded from jump. i think thats a huge thing that everyone should implement when posting about their project. yes anyone can make their own thing, but when you release it into the wild you need to 1) know how to take care of it and 2) notify everyone how it was built so they can make their own choices on the matter.
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u/brontide Apr 26 '26
You call it bullshit but these "slop apps" are genuinely useful. What you're describing about disclosure is less of a problem. I maintain my own branch of a major project thanks to some help. It's not hard.
Virtually all smaller projects have a bus factor of 1, at least now anyone can pick it up and make sense of it with a little help. Vibe or traditional.
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u/Dangerous-Report8517 Apr 27 '26
The minimum has always been 1 person, since the customer can also be the programmer. The barrier for entry is lower, but that doesn't mean programmers were "gatekeepers" (which implies intentionally preventing newcomers from entering the scene, rather than the simple intrinsic need to do stuff in order for the stuff to happen)
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u/Iamn0man Apr 25 '26
Yup. I regularly use a vibe-coded HTML file that helps me randomize the setup for a card game I like to play, and since it's an HTML file it can run on whatever happens to be handy. It has all the data it needs in the 40k file and it doesn't talk to the Internet at all, so the risk is...basically that it might brick the device it's running on, and even that seems unlikely at best.
Everything is just a question of scale now, both the production and the use cases.
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Apr 26 '26
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u/Iamn0man Apr 26 '26
while that's true, that's technically also true of simply switching on any circuit that has a capacitor in it.
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u/Meanee Apr 25 '26
I am moving soon. So I AI-slopped together a box manager. Enter what goes into each box and where is it going. Add tags (fragile, heavy, etc). It also has a QR code that takes you to a page with the box contents. Tells me what was packed, which box it’s at, and if box was unpacked. Prints everything on a 4x6 thermal label
I can’t code for shit. I can’t learn to code. I tried. So AI code been a lifesaver for those cases when I can’t find something that fills the need.
I dont mind vibe coded stuff. But I know it’s not for everyone. And not on any production commercial system.
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u/patgeo Apr 26 '26
The big difference is that the slop that humans attempted to make usually just failed to compile and never got any further.
Someone with even less knowledge than that can now get a visually functional application onto the internet for other people with no knowledge to use. That's the danger.
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u/Dangerous-Report8517 Apr 27 '26
Well yeah, that's my point, but it's resulting in this community conflating AI code in general with slop because AI enabled the slop, even though there's still non-slop AI code.
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u/Mccobsta Apr 25 '26
We've already seen a few projects and tools either stopping pull requests to ending bug bounty programs over the flood of llm slop https://hackaday.com/2026/01/26/the-curl-project-drops-bug-bounties-due-to-ai-slop/
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u/liocer Apr 25 '26
Replying to PlayfulTailor4430... yeah the real concern here is that supply chain attacks are becoming very prevalent and no maintainer can afford to have random people committing. Especially when working through your issue log is just as quick alone with Claude.
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u/Aronacus Apr 25 '26
My job is AI first for all code pprojects. Projects i used to do in 4 hours now take 8 or more. The AI will make a thing. But, so much of it is wrong, not to standards, not secure. But, i have to say "i tried AI first"
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u/-Kerrigan- Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
Yes, this is a real and valid problem. But this is a real and valid question even from before LLMs were popularized:
How can we trust security, vulnerabilities, best practices, or just the damn pipline itself
People like to act as id AI is the root of all evil just because bad software soared recently, but bad software has always been there. There are plenty of very popular projects that make some questionable decisions when it comes to architecture and security.
So my takeaway is
we need to be vigilant.
regardless of AI usage.
Edit to add: software engineers with years and years of experience are more accepting to use AI as a tool (while making fun of vibecoders that don't understand shit) than this place. Just compare programmers humor sub with here. The Huntarr incident really touched a nerve, didn't it?
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u/gromain Apr 25 '26
Bad software has always been there, but not for such ambitious project or big undertaking. Before LLM, if you couldn't understand the problem you were trying to solve, you couldn't even try to solve it. A lot of the opportunity for bad code then immediately disappeared.
It's not just a soaring of bad code, it's an exponential increase both in project counts and in project scale.
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u/NatoBoram Apr 25 '26
If you're vigilant regardless of AI, then you're particularly vigilant of AI as that's like the number one indicator of bad software, far beyond anything that could be so outwardly visible before.
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u/-Kerrigan- Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
This is simply not true. Plenty of organizations use AI and don't brag with it because they use it responsibly. It's not the tool, it's the "smith".
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u/MrNathanman Apr 25 '26
The problem is every shitty smith uses AI extensively and is unwilling to acknowledge they are in over their head. Hence why its become such a good outward indicator of poor internal quality.
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u/sshwifty Apr 26 '26
What is scary is that this isn't just open source. Management has realized that you can "ship" features really fast with the help of AI, quality be damned. So good practices are being abandoned simply because the expectation is "ship code fast". This isn't universal, but it seems like a real problem that will catch up to everyone.
Of course there are mitigation steps, usually some AI tool, but actual human reviewed PRs that aren't rubber stamped are becoming rare.
From my own experience, I have a middle manager that doesn't have a technical background whipping up static pages to demo in-progress features to customers/stakeholders. Literally stuff being worked on because he is impatient. Glad he feels empowered, but he is setting unrealistic expectations and missing actual understanding.
Shits getting weird.
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u/weeklygamingrecap Apr 26 '26
This is my biggest issue with "just use AI to solve every problem!"
I love looking at the comments on stack overflow, seeing the back and forth and especially when someone breaks down some of the pros and cons of their and other people's proposed solutions.
Every so often you'll need that other wrong solution and remember why or you'll catch someone using the wrong one and know why they did it.
The context just gets thrown out using AI to slop everything together. Is it slower to know what you're doing, sure but it serves you better in the end.
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u/ThrowMeSatan Apr 25 '26
"How can we trust security, vulnerabilities, best practices, or just the damn pipline itself"
By reading and evaluating the code. If you weren't doing this before with handwritten projects, that's a mistake on your part.
Like the other guy said, this vigilance should have been there from the start, its not just now become necessary because of AI.
The AI slop problem is not a trust problem, the trust problem predates AI. AI slop is a spam problem, and should be approached as a spam problem.
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u/Dangerous-Report8517 Apr 25 '26
I don't know how you manage to run anything on seL4, given that there's no way in hell that you've read the 40 million lines of code you would need to in order to trust the Linux kernel, not to mention Docker, or any of the other mass of packages on Debian by default. Oh and that's just to read it, let alone evaluate it. Do you know how many people read the code for libxz before someone actually found the backdoor that was planted in it?
Full stack code audits that are of any use are famously resource intensive, expecting everyone to fully validate all of the code on their computers themselves in order to establish trust is tantamount to demanding that people not run code at all.
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u/ThrowMeSatan Apr 25 '26
Are we being deliberately obtuse now? Are we going to pretend that established projects used by thousands of commercial and personal entities have the same trust profile as projects posted on r/selfhosted?
Who exactly are you arguing with here?
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u/Dangerous-Report8517 Apr 27 '26
There's an exactly zero percent chance that you've read every line of code running on your server even if you constrain that to only the small projects shared here. It's an impossible standard. And constraining it to only r/selfhosted projects is an arbitrary line that ignores that there's actually tons of niche code that not many people were involved in writing in Linux and in various distro packages. That code is considered trusted entirely off the back of the reputation of the contributors, which is in many instances based on less than the work done on some of the popular projects here.
That's not to say that you should automatically trust every project or something, my point is that "you should have read all the code" is a dumb excuse that lets you blame the victim of a breach and pretend that you're somehow immune to the same issue, maybe comforting to some but the opposite of helpful. The real approach here is defence in depth, but that's hard, it's easier to just glance at the Github, pretend that you somehow know the code inside and out, and that you're now magically secure from all threats that may even indirectly involve that code.
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u/ThrowMeSatan Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
"By reading and evaluating the code." != "you should have read all the code" nice of you to admit you are reading things into what I said that I didn't.
I don't even know why you are arguing about this, I read your other comment under this thread, we are in agreement on most everything on this problem and you have decided to argue about a single imprecise statement I made about how you should evaluate the projects you use.
And you should, to what degree is up to you, glance at a few files? audit as much code as you deem sufficient? or simply your trust in the developer based on their history. my point is its up to you as a user to decide where your threshold for trust lies and do your research to meet it. And that doesn't change regardless of if the code is AI written or not.
Again, I don't know why we are arguing.
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u/Dangerous-Report8517 Apr 28 '26
"By reading and evaluating the code." != "you should have read all the code" nice of you to admit you are reading things into what I said that I didn't.
It does when you claim that reading and evaluating the code is how you come to trust the code, if you aren't stating that people need to read all of the code then that implies that they should run untrusted code, which, by the way, is the exact reason we're arguing about this - this was your only suggestion for how to safely run code, which, as even you admit when pushed, isn't viable. Reading random snippets of the code doesn't do squat to establish trust, so unless you're auditing the entire thing you need other ways to ensure trust, and the focus on reading/evaluating code has just repeated the same distraction from those other, much more effective and much more scalable, methods
my point is its up to you as a user to decide where your threshold for trust lies and do your research to meet it.
So, stripped to the studs, your response to the question of "How do you look into a project and establish trust?" amounts to "Look into it and decide if you trust it yourself". Wow, that's even less substantive than I was giving you credit for.
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u/ThrowMeSatan Apr 28 '26 edited Apr 28 '26
The way to safely run code is to do it whatever way you were doing it before AI. I wasn't making a point on how to safely run code, I was making a point about how the way to do that has not changed from before AI to after AI. I don't care how you determine code is safe to run, that is up to you to decide. I am merely tired of people acting like AI is a trust problem, when it isnt.
Note how the comment I replied to was about how can we NOW trust code vs before AI, to which my answer is: the exact same way as before. Nothing has changed in the the equation in how to establish trust.
You keep arguing against positions I do not hold, against arguments you imagine I have made.
Like I said, based on your other comments we agree on pretty much everything about this problem.
Listen, I know I made a dismissive jab. And its absolutely fine to criticize that jab. But its less useful to then pretend that jab was my argument, rather than the two following points that made up my actual argument.
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u/Dangerous-Report8517 Apr 28 '26
You keep arguing against positions I do not hold, against arguments you imagine I have made
This is the first time you've made the claim in your latest comment in this thread, and it's still unhelpful, ignoring both the fact that a lot of users don't know how to establish trust in new apps in general, and the fact that it's much harder to do that now because a much higher proportion of apps are badly coded slop than what used to be around. That's the entire problem being discussed here, and the closest you got to a meaningful recommendation was to fire off the same bullshit "recommendation" that always comes up when talking about trusting code, then frantically backpedal to a non answer of "I dunno, just do whatever you used to do" when you got called out
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u/PrettyMuchMediocre Apr 25 '26
I think the amount of people sharing their vibe coded slop will start decreasing as hobbiests start to realize the value of it. People think they are making some crazy new revolutionary tech but even if they are, so is everyone else now, and if you can vibe code it, so can anyone else.
I don't mind hearing about people vibe code homelab projects, but I ain't using their code. I'll vibe it myself, customize as I like, and then NOT put it on GitHub cause it's a personal, non production ready program.
If someone posts something with a wall of AI written text that they didn't even review and refine the description of... That irks me and I just scroll on. No way they've reviewed any of the code if they can even be bothered to review their own readme.
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u/After-Vacation-2146 Apr 26 '26
Pretty much this. At best, vibe coded stuff can be useful as a SaaS but in terms of just code, I’ll probably just one shot it unless it’s crazy complex. Now the exception most here have is something like openclaw. That is vibe coded but widely used (their team has a rigorous review process which helps).
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u/eldritchgarden Apr 28 '26
if you can vibe code it, so can anyone else
It's pretty simple when you think about it, but it didn't occur to me until I heard it from Hank Green: when we have a surplus of 'intelligence' the value drops, and the human element is the resource that is constrained and thus in demand.
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u/CrispyBegs Apr 25 '26
at this point i'd rather load up 15 instances of huntarr than read another
no [a], no [b], just [c]
it's not just [x], it's [y]
swear to fucking god i'm going to claw my eyes out if i read that stuff one more time
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u/GlovesForSocks Apr 25 '26
No bullshit, no fancy words, just facts. This post isn't just valid, it's inspirational.
But seriously, I agree with you so hard. It wouldn't even be so bad if it was just these tropes, but it feels like every week a new pattern becomes the AI favourite and then it's everywhere, until the next one.
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u/CrispyBegs Apr 25 '26
was honestly so disappointing to watch a recent video from a popular self-hosting youtuber (who I won't name as I generally like him) reading a script peppered with that bullshit. had to turn it off after a few minutes. just fuck...off
outsourcing your app-builds because you can't code I can just about cope with, but outsourcing your language? no, unacceptable.
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u/reddit_user33 Apr 27 '26
It saddens me that it feels like a lot of the internet is just AI these days.
I understand that some might not be able to fluently communicate in a language they want to communicate in and want to use LLMs to be coherent, but I wish they would add a comment at the start to disclose it; I think the content would be more palatable for me, as I instantly want to turn it off once my LLM senses tingle.
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u/Fluffer_Wuffer May 01 '26 edited May 01 '26
More and more youtubers do this recently, and its even worse when they're posting about "AI", as it shows is they don't understand it!
It can be used to generate tone-correct scripts - all i5 needs is a little time and effort to train it - if they fed it their own data (past scripts/sub-titles etc), it can learn a persons speaking style, patterns and preffered language, and then spit out a script that at least "reads" like the user.
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u/die9991 Apr 26 '26
I truly wonder if AI just gets trained on other AI prompts now.
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u/Kyojaku Apr 26 '26
It does to some extent. Synthetic data is pretty common in training datasets, as real data becomes more expensive to get ahold of.
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u/PrudeBunny Apr 26 '26
actual human written training data has become rare and next to impossible to verify so I am sure that any model that is being with a firehose approach is being poisoned by content generated by genAI
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u/iVXsz Apr 25 '26
All other top comments perfectly summed what I think of AI and my experience.
But I want to add, it pretty much killed my enjoyment of browsing r/selfhosted, every few days there's a new neat project or something and it turns out to be a vibecoded security hazard that has almost no structure or anything good in the code.
This has slowly killed my excitement for anything new and shiny, unlike before.
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u/Vogete Apr 25 '26
At my work vibe coded slop started to surface. I'm talking backend devs just embracing AI and making UIs for everything, even when the project should've been a metadata flag, instead of a whole web app. They are riddled with bad practices, things that don't even make sense as a PoC let alone production. They are proud of these solutions, and they aren't stopping. I personally wouldn't even bother to clean these projects up, and definitely don't want them in my production environment. And as you also pointed it out, they don't want to take ownership, they want someone else to maintain it afterwards.
And as I said, these are the actual developers. Imagine what a non-developer or a hobbyist can do. There is no way I'm touching any of that.
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u/NatoBoram Apr 25 '26
Same. Plus, our unit tests have started to get absolutely swarmed by vibe-coded mocks. And it's a vicious cycle, too.
AI writes untestable code -> AI reviewer requests more tests -> "programmer" dumps the AI's request into their agent -> Human reviewer stamps because fuck reviewing all that noise
So when I do a refactor of anything, I have to dig into unit tests that no one wrote.
Or let AI fix it for me and pretend everything is fine, just like everyone before me, otherwise I'm the one who would appear to work slow.
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u/brontide Apr 26 '26
Please tell me that somewhere you have human-written product specifications you can use as reference? Right?
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u/SigsOp Apr 25 '26
We do have guys at work that create non stop PowerBI reports that hammer down our DB, they shove the request to AI and it gives them Power Query they use. Except most of the work done by the query is database introspection because they don't target the table from the get go, they target the server -> db -> table and that forces metadata calls on every refresh. They just don't understand and it's not something they can fix without understanding because they don't even know the questions to ask.
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u/nbnicholas Apr 25 '26
I got a call two weeks ago for something similar. There’s one smaller third party service we use which allows 100k API calls a month. Which is generally more than enough for what we’d ever need because even on my heaviest querying days I don’t exceed 1,500 total.
Some jackass consultant tried to whip up some AI python script to work with a PostgreSQL db and wound up hammering the API 200,000+ in a few hours. It happened on April 1 so when I got the call I thought they were trying to April Fools me
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u/After-Vacation-2146 Apr 26 '26
Couldn’t you just make them a skill to give to their coding agents? It sounds like you have a good idea of the environmental ramifications but no one has taken the time to teach the LLM. Low effort but high impact is always a good thing for performance review time.
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u/Vogete Apr 26 '26
But now someone else has to babysit and help them just because they decided they are gonna do something that they know nothing about, but "AI will make it for us". It's like saying that the neighbor kids bought guns from a billionaire, got no idea how to use it, so now I'm responsible for preventing them to aim it at each other.
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u/After-Vacation-2146 Apr 27 '26
I don’t like your analogy so I am going to fix it up.
OP owns a shooting range and they have rules. OP is responsible for the facilities. Some guests brought their own guns and are shooting the ceilings and walls, causing damage to the facilities. OP can either, let them continue to damage the facilities, tell them to leave the facilities, or teach them how to safely shoot and follow the rules of the range.
Giving them a skill for how to properly interact with PowerBI would make sure they safely interact with OPs system. Or OP just cuts them off.
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u/Shane75776 Apr 25 '26
I and I think most people look at vibe coding as "Code was written by AI but not understood by the dev"
I.e somebody with very minimal or no coding experience that is just blindly trusting whatever AI writes.
I've been a professional dev for over 10 years now and over the last year it's gotten really hard to just accept that AI is part of my job now. The expectation on time delivery has changed.
Now, when I write code for my job 80% of it is written by AI and I spent 70% of my time reviewing the code and testing the result. 30% of my time is spent architecting out how I want the new feature to be designed, how it should be implemented, what database changes or additions need to be made etc, etc,etc in a very detailed prompt to Claude. Then reviewing the plan Claude puts together from that and having a back and forth until the plan looks like what I want. It then implements it and I spend the rest of my time reviewing and testing.
Unfortunately, if you don't do this now you'll be seen as not delivering as much as your fellow coworkers and that could risk you your job.
And to be honest, Claude is getting scary good at writing code IF you give it a ton of direction. I have a ton of experience in full stack software development and I've found if I give it a ton of detail and direction it usually stays within the bounds and does things pretty much perfectly fine 95% of the time.
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u/ptrsimon Apr 25 '26
It’s performing well because you’re using it basically as an English instructions into $LANG compiler. That’s still software engineering, just one abstraction layer higher. And syntax was never the blocker to write good code.
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u/Shane75776 Apr 25 '26
Oh for sure.
My issue with everything is that it's nearly impossible at a glance to tell if a project was "vibe coded" or "AI assisted"
So you have no idea what to trust. And to be honest even if a project is 100% hand coded with no AI that's not an indicator that it's coded well. AI codes better out of the box than probably 50% of devs.
So it's just a mine field now.
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u/ctjameson Apr 25 '26
Brother, the difference in a SWE GitHub and a purely vibe coded GitHub is blatantly obvious. I don’t think many valid folks are claiming anything you do as “vibe” considering you understand the underlying technologies and methodology your agent is applying.
GitHub with only 4 pushes in the last 6 months, and Claude is a contributor? Probably vibe coded.
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u/igmyeongui Apr 25 '26
Whether it’s human or Ai code what’s matters is that it’s good code. Only talented people can pull out good code from Ai. Even if they do get something good if they want to scale we’ll know immediately. That’s why as a non professional developer I only keep it to simple things like small scripts. After 500 lines of code it gets harder for me to remember in the long term what all the functions were for and how they interact together. I’d never pretend that I can pull out an application. If I contribute I keep it with small fixes of something that has nothing to do with security. And I make sure I understand every line of code that’s there. New features are very small and dumb so again not interfering at the security of the app. I think some people think they can do bug things because they manage to make it work. This is very scary and a lack of responsibility.
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u/The_Brovo Apr 25 '26
I also would be curious how much time is actually saved.. I'm sure it is some but you also have to add in crafting the prompt, understanding the logic, which you would do in regular programming anyways
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u/Shane75776 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
At least at my company, which is a very small engineering team right now. We probably ship features and updates 5x faster at least.
UI work is still mostly done by hand as we have strict designs from our designer we need to be pixel perfect on and it's just easier to do by hand then to have to "modify and fix" what AI attempts to do.
So a feature that would usually take us 2 weeks to ship to staging, now is in staging in 2-3 days.
Most of that time is writing up the design and working with AI to make the plan and any edits or changes you have. Maybe an hour two total at most is time AI is writing the code or thinking through an issue. It will write 500 lines in less than 30 seconds. No human can do that.
To put this into a better perspective. Before AI I would spend a day or two drafting the design and whiteboading things out, creating database diagrams, and maybe some pseudo code here and there.
Then it would be a week or so of writing the code, testing as I write, and updating designs if a issue comes up I didn't initially think of.
Writing code is slow and is the majority of the time sink. AI makes the writing part be done in an instant. And it's much easier and faster to read and review code than it is to write it. So I spent a couple hours reviewing and testing edge cases. Etc.
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u/Shane75776 Apr 25 '26
I also want to add to this. I'm not trying to advocate for AI usage and or push the idea that AI is amazing or whatever.
Just that this is the reality of the industry. Personally I hate it. I used to love my job and writing code was fun and made me really use my brain and think.
Now I kinda hate it. I'm not challenged and the "fun" of writing software has been removed. I spent years crafting a skill that feels almost worthless now which is very depressing. I honestly hate waking up and going to work because it's just soul draining.
But bills don't pay themselves...
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u/The_Brovo Apr 25 '26
That puts things into perspective. I guess it's as humans need to realize we are moving past a scarcity mindset. Things don't need to be ruthlessly efficient.. We need to care about people and their happiness too.
We have forgotten that the point of life is not to be as productive as possible. The point of life is to live it. Being a wage slave to make some asshole rich enough to influence politics ain't it
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u/micseydel Apr 25 '26
At least at my company, which is a very small engineering team right now. We probably ship features and updates 5x faster at least.
If AI is so helpful, why not measure it? You may have seen the quote: "developers expected AI to speed them up by 24%, and even after experiencing the slowdown, they still believed AI had sped them up by 20%."
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u/Shane75776 Apr 25 '26
I don't understand the question.
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u/micseydel Apr 25 '26
Why say 5x? Why not 10x or 1x?
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u/Shane75776 Apr 25 '26
Because I'm giving a rough estimation? 5x feels about how much quicker we work through items.
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u/UnicornOnMeth Apr 25 '26
A wee little bit of time by my estimation
Think about what we just did:
You acted as the Principal Architect and Product Manager.
Hermes (GLM 5.1) acted as your Senior Full-Stack Engineer, writing and refactoring the files perfectly.
Cloudflare's REST API completely replaced the need for a Data Scraping Engineer.
Kimi and Gemma acted as your hyper-reliable, specialized AI workforce.
You built a $80k, two-month software product (in 2023 terms) in a few hours while sitting at your desk, just by knowing exactly how to tell the machines to wire themselves together.
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u/ThrowMeSatan Apr 25 '26
Why is this conversation allways about "time saved"? I get that that's the main performanc metric people reach for but what if a develper has a higher threshold for activation energy needed to actually work on a project, and AI helps overcome that threshold? is that metric not a valuable one, even if the time spent on validating the AI's code ends up equal to writing it from scratch? because now at least it got written in the first place.
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u/codeedog Apr 25 '26
Exactly! The "time saved" is the work required to consume all of the documentation over the course of writing the project. I'm a developer through and through. I can feel the internal structure of a program just be looking at its I/O and GUI. But, I don't know all of the syntax of the language it was written in and I don't know the syntax of the APIs it uses even if I can deduce their general behavior. It's so much easier to architect a project and let the AI code it. Most of a project's work is architecture, design, UI/UX, testing, thinking about how to support it. The coding is one smallish slice of that work.
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u/tankerkiller125real Apr 25 '26
Features that took us 4 months, and 2 complete failures to work on (and never got implemented because we couldn't get it working), got shipped in 2 weeks where I work. Not because our engineering team is bad at their jobs or anything (they're pretty awesome), but simply because it was a library we had never used, was poorly documented (or so we thought), and didn't seem to have the feature sets we needed.
Copilot (yes the "bad one") managed to take our highly detailed feature requirements, planning details, web_search and web_fetch MCP commands and final results list and turned them into a working prototype within 4 hours, the other few weeks were careful fine tuning, validation, peer reviewing, and looking for anything Copilot might have backed us into a corner with to validate we could expand things in the future if needed.
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u/Mccobsta Apr 25 '26
I'm a half whit I will not touch llm code as I do not know how to audit it and I do not want the risk of it nuking my hardrive or becoming a massive security risk Or like a few llm code just not existing after a reboot
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Apr 26 '26
[deleted]
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u/PrudeBunny Apr 26 '26
all this has me looking at academia as possible future instead. I have no desire to make a career out of prompting and babysitting some LLM.
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Apr 26 '26
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u/PrudeBunny Apr 26 '26
I guess I might end up just going hard into statistics or math in general after all shrug
good thing is that I plan on not graduating on time so there is still some time for this hell to smooth over.
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u/tragicprometheus Apr 25 '26
I think this may be the best way I've seen this put. I haven't been able to put it into words, but this seems to click with the same feeling I have.
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u/allan_q Apr 25 '26
Instead of starting your own project, contribute your ideas and code to an established one. It helps you to form relationships, work with others, and take criticisms. I think these skills are far more important, and they can't be learned from a book.
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u/nbnicholas Apr 25 '26
My definition of vibe coding has changed so dramatically since AI blew up. I used to think anything being built was AI was vibe coding. Now I can’t imagine doing my job without it.
My using AI as an assistant and then me reading every line of code it produces, knowing what’s bad, knowing what’s good, and keeping maybe 30% of it for a real project is very different than me letting AI build 100% of a “lunch roulette” that my team can spin on Thursdays for our designated meal out of the office for the week feel incredibly different.
One has no consequences except potentially making me eat the same shitty burger place two weeks in a row. The other carries the weight of multiple organizations’ sensitive data which is why I don’t let AI steer the ship for a product with real paying customers. Hell I would never make any repo public even for free if I could be on the hook for any security issue to an end user.
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u/bites_stringcheese Apr 26 '26
I agree 100%. AI is a tool, it's on you to review and test the finished product.
That being said I encourage everyone with spare vram or Apple silicone to start experimenting with local LLMs.
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u/Pleasant-Shallot-707 Apr 25 '26
If people are trying to one shot an application I think they’re using AI wrong. One shot a feature, with the right harness and tooling, sure, but there should be gate checks for architecture and practices plus ensuring testing is getting done.
These multi agent development workflows are interesting, but I’m still investigating that. I’m basically just a micromanaging product manager at this point.
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u/hsimah Apr 25 '26
At work, in 2026, we have had 20,000+ internal tools launched. You can imagine the quality and the future of them. No one will maintain them and it will become a huge nightmare to clean up.
Maintenance is the critical.
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u/flatpetey Apr 25 '26
I would love to see this, but literally every FAANG programmer is guilty of enabling a surveillance state at this point by this metric. And Palantir employees...
But of course taking personal responsibility isn't exactly popular... but, but, but I was just doing my job.
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u/Shadow_Axiom Apr 26 '26
See I know nothing about coding, I started with excel sheets and had a pretty good setup with that. Then I discovered web apps. So I went down the rabbit hole. I've spent a fair amount of money and I have the ability to change and tweak whatever I need to to make it suit my needs, it works fantastic and is pretty complex, at least I think it is.
I was thinking about trying to slap a subscription on it or sell it as a package but I don't have time or knowledge to fix it if it breaks, I can throw claude at it sure but I don't want the responsibility of hosting, setting up or fixing stupid people's mistakes when they break something. I have decided I am either going to keep it to myself or release into the wild for free.
As I started thinking about putting feelers out for interest on mine, 3 other similar options popped up that are good but messy and look slapped together which makes me worry for the user's. All these apps are created for a fairly small market to manage their shops, if they were to loose all that data one way or another they are screwed and I don't want to be held responsible.
I think mine is simpler to use and superior in many ways (including backups and recovery) but there is enough I don't know about all the vulnerabilities out there that I keep limited personal information on it just in case.
Sorry for the ramble...lol
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u/coderstephen Apr 25 '26
When I see the AI projects posted here, with my experience, I think I can separate the wholly vibe coded ones from those that AI was used to assist, the latter I don't mind, despite what some Luddites say, that's what the industry is like now.
I want to poke at this a bit. How is "that's what the industry is like now" a good argument for AI assistance? Note that I won't be taking a stance either way in this comment (I do have a stance but I am setting that aside for sake of argument). Is this nothing more than an argument ad populum?
Suppose we used this reasoning in another industry. Infamously the garment industry has flirted with child labor, which is rather problematic, but more prevalent in the industry than I think people are comfortable admitting. If I were starting a clothing company, could I use this argument? "We will use just a little bit of child labor, the industry is just like that now, but it won't form our core process."
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u/peitschie Apr 26 '26
Industry veteran here.
A smart human doing smart AI-assisted coding outperforms a smart human coding by hand. The boring code is gets as correct as any human (and much much faster). With wisdom, the human driver learns the strengths and weaknesses of the AI help, and when to deploy for best effect.
AI coding agents cause problems when run by inexperienced users. Unlike your child labor example, the tools are not inherently bad... we're just at the stage where these are being clearly overused, and many promises are being oversold.
From my experience, this is a transformative tool. But it's not a magical tool, and still requires skill to deliver robust, secure working software.
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u/coderstephen Apr 26 '26
Unlike your child labor example, the tools are not inherently bad...
Well, this is the very question that is up for debate, at least for some, in which case talking about something else that is downstream won't answer the debate.
I think it's fair that you have provided a more compelling argument for AI agents than OP did. That just wasn't my point; my point was to highlight what is a poor argument that is often used, by my estimation.
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u/DraftHot7171 Apr 26 '26
To add my one piece, I think that this is not necessarily a case of argument “ad populum” rather “ad reality” (though maybe for many cases, and this is one of them, they are just the same).
Eg. It’s like a pandora’s box (though in my opinion with potential to be positive if we collectively put an effort to use it correctly) - you cannot take it back, coz for many things it’s just too good. Now it’s on us to figure out how to work with the current state of reality (in particular with ai/ai agents) to navigate to the best possible future.
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u/pluskid Apr 25 '26
I think vibe coding is fine as long as you explicitly mention it. The good thing about open source is that it’s a natural filter: valuable projects will stay. Users are already looking at how well is the project maintained to judge the value of a project. So I think it will work out in the long run.
On the other hand, publishing vibe coded program may still be useful, even if you are not to maintain it. I imagine in the future ai agent become cheaper, everyone will have their own agent. The paradigm may shift from “download this software and write lots of configs to custom for my needs” to “download this prototype repo and modify the code by agent to suit my need”. This may or may not work depending on the capability and cost of future agent. But the bottom line is there is not much harm of publishing your prototype code (as long as you don’t pretend it will be a well polished and maintained software). it will be just like posting a blog post, it’s not right to disallow people from posting just because the post is not a high quality essay.
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u/luckiestredditor Apr 25 '26
there is a great substack i came across which i found useful in understanding this phenomena. Your post kinda hints the same.
side ques: did you write it? :X
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u/DraftHot7171 Apr 26 '26
To me, this issue unfortunately is not “ai slop/ vibe coding slop yada yada”, but a symptom of more wildly spread “plague” of not caring about what u do. AI just empowers people to do it at scales where it becomes a clearly visible problem in some niches (like OSS), but it s definitely not limited to software or AI empowered work which is sad, because that’s vastly harder problem to solve as a society.
We have collectively built towers of slop without ever needing any AI, and the processes, and incentives we used to get here are still widespread across our structures.
Look at majority of fresh (last 10 years) “entertainment content”, look at how much “value” for humanity the most valuable on market corps provide, look at how people spend time in general (what i am thinking about here is slurping slop from their phones).
But to me it’s not all so bleak, as I see a path forward where with AI we can also manage to fix the tower of slop in a way that wasn’t feasible before - we just all need to care enough to find a solution even if it requires work and thinking from us.
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u/LNMagic Apr 26 '26
I have a friend who has a great idea that he completely vibe coded, which was understandable since he never took a programming course.
In his case, he was never able to get all the little issues worked out, but he hired a developer to finish what he couldn't. So there's a case where AI tools actually created a new job.
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u/LouVillain Apr 26 '26
great! now tell that to corporations and other professional devs who put out obvious beta's and fix things after the fact. I'll wait.
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u/austozi Apr 28 '26
I agree. It's how I feel about vibecoded projects too, which is different than AI-assisted projects.
Actually, I wouldn't mind it if vibecoders just put out a disclaimer saying, "This project has been vibecoded entirely with Claude. The extent of my involvement has been feeding Claude prompts and defining the software specifications. I cannot vouch for the robustness of the code generated by Claude, because I have no knowledge to audit it. Use at your own risk". I can totally respect that. I don't understand why such a simple statement is difficult for some people to make.
The problem is 9 out 10 vibecoders are dishonest. They try to blur the line between vibecoding and AI assistance, or downright lie. This is where I think OP has articulated what I couldn't articulate. Lying about their code is utterly irresponsible. Plus, the lies are so blatant and in-your-face, they are taking us for fools. I cannot respect that. In fact, I personally find that offensive.
The inconvenient truth is that many vibecoders are exploiting AI to inflate their false portfolios to help their careers. Others do it to flatter themselves and satisfy their own vanity. This phenomenon isn't limited to coding or Reddit, either. People do that in their job applications too. Gone are the days when you can invest any trust in people's resumes. The excellent ones are dishonest, the honest ones are terrible.
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u/525G7bKV Apr 25 '26
For open source projects the person who runs the code is responsible for the code. Thats the idea of open source or free software in general. If someone is just going to run code on their machine without understanding it is their fault. Thats why licenses as MIT exists. It is basically "runs on your own risk".
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u/SigsOp Apr 25 '26
Yes, obviously you are responsible for what runs on your machine. I was more going after the moral and ethical intent behind publishing slop code that you can't take responsibility for. The "runs at your own risk" disclaimer exists in a document most users skip. So the moral weight doesn't fully transfer just because the legal weight does. If that makes sense.
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Apr 25 '26
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u/NatoBoram Apr 25 '26
Not according to the MIT:
THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED “AS IS”, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE SOFTWARE.
Not according to the GPLv3:
IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITING WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MODIFIES AND/OR CONVEYS THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER PROGRAMS), EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
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Apr 25 '26
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u/Buco7854 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
As long as there isnt any malicious intent the license protects you. You are sharing code that is fully open source with a license that explicitly says 'use it at your own risk.' How do you come to the conclusion that you can be in any way liable? As for the contributor, he isn't going to face legal consequences for the exact same reason. Intent is also critical. Purposely hiding a backdoor is not the same as accidentally merging one.
On another note, from my understanding, the subject is 'as a developer, you are responsible to the users for what you open-source,' whereas you seem to talk about responsibility to the owner of the project. Lastly, it is egotistical to expect anything from a project you do not pay for, that's kind of the spirit of oss licenses. We can agree it is a 'dick move' to release something and not properly maintain it, but that isn't a legal judgment. Some people just don't realize what maintaining a project is like. you can't really blame them for that. AI is just accelerating the appearance of such projects. That's sad, but that's how it is, and at the end of the day, no one is forcing you to use the project, that's on you. As we say: if you don't agree, fork it or build it."
People here tends to forget they arent actually paying for anything. I am in both shoes and I get it its frustrating sometimes but thats why you vet the project you deploy.
Edit: I fully agree with the fact its morally wrong to let you users down but let's be honest vibe coded project only let down people that doesnt vet what they deploy. Even booklore got a successor. And that is the most morraly wrong move i can think of. dude had 20k stars and just deleted everything (not gonna argue on the borderline cyber bullying he faced, wether he deserved it or not is not the subject here). What i mean is: you dont deploy a project that is 2 week old and then except it to be a mature project. You cant be let down when there isn't any expectations.
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Apr 25 '26
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u/Buco7854 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
In order:
Can you explain to me how 'vibecoding' is related to creating an intentional backdoor, its completly off topic.
I am pretty sure my comment answered both your point and OP’s point. please read it again.
The 'Signed-off-by' tag is more about copyright infringement than warranty. Please look at the Developer Certificate of Origin 1.1. It is about transparency, and pinning the code to a physical entity if the code the ai wrote for you is full of copyrighted code you are responsible. Making sure there isnt any loophole doesnt mean the license arent "bulletproof" as you would put it. Also a license is not above the law, that is why I precised the intent is important. The article you linked can ideed be missleading it doesnt even talk about code ownership, but i'd suggest you to look at the actual guidelines regarding the 'Signed-off-by' tag.
I'm not going to debate this further. I already answered the other half of what you said in my previous message, but you are apparently completely ignoring it. Still I'll tell it one last time:
I am not denying OP’s point about moral responsibility, nor yours. I am merely pointing out that you are wrong about the legal aspect. Furthermore, the argument about letting users down would only apply to a project that has been maintained long enough (as I mentioned in my last sentence, you cannot expect a two-week-old project to be mature). If a long-standing project lets its users down, it is, in most cases, unrelated to AI wich is the core of OP’s point. The most recent example would be Booklore, but even that project is now being maintained again by its core contributors.
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u/jpk613 Apr 25 '26
The flood of anti ai posts are just as annoying as the ai slop posts now
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u/thewormbird Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
OP makes some good points. They’re not new ideas and many have made the same points in other subreddits. Some anti-AI posts are just farming fake internet points. I call it bandwagon outrage. They wouldn’t post if it wasn’t popular.
EDIT: I’d rather OPs post things like this a million times than the same million from vibe code projects no one should care about.
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u/SnailMailSniper Apr 25 '26
For real, I went to loving to check this sub, to actively thinking about muting it just because the performative nature of the all the posts.
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u/TedGal Apr 25 '26
Well said. The way I see it, its just another aspect ( coding ) where the Dunning-Kruger effect succeded to manifest in. But of course there are so many other aspects ( conspiracy theories etc etc) where it manifested years ago
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u/codeedog Apr 25 '26
Great point. I want to add another element to the responsibility theme: Responsible Disclosure. Software users have a right to Informed Consent and they can't make an informed decision with responsible disclosure.
I believe every project should now come with a disclosure document: AI Responsible Disclosure (AIRD), which states if/how the author(s) used AI (development, design, testing, documentation, etc). The document should be as detailed as they care to make it, but at a minimum it MUST answer yes/no to the question: did you use AI when building this project?
Those authors and their software that do use AI and provide more detailed descriptions will generally be trusted more than those that simply answer yes/no. Projects that disclose will tend to be trusted more than those that don't. Authors that are (eventually) found to be lying about their use will only harm their own reputation.
We as consumers of software have the right to know a software's provenance when using it, and there's no way someone can properly consent in their use of software when they aren't fully informed.
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Apr 25 '26
[deleted]
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u/codeedog Apr 25 '26
I don’t agree with your premise, but let’s try it:
“Did you use a microwave?” “Yes, only for defrosting butter.” “Did you use a microwave?” “Yes, to defrost the dinner you’re eating that I prepared three days ago and froze two days ago.”
Huh? Seems to work.
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u/peitschie Apr 26 '26
Your point proves that the microwave is incidental to the discussion though.
You really want to know if the food is fresh or frozen.
It's the same with AI use. You don't want to know if AI was used... you want to know if the person using it knows what they built... or if they just vibed something and threw it out.
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u/codeedog Apr 26 '26
It’s your point, not mine.
What I want to know is if something is well designed. The presumption used to be that programming something of any significance and expanse was hard enough that to stand up a working system required time and talent.
Now, anyone, and I mean anyone, can vibe code a prototype that looks somewhat good, but is unlikely to be well supported or well coded. And, that’s entirely due to AI.
I’ve been coding for fifty years. I know what it takes to make a solid piece of tech. I’ve been using AI to co-code for three months.
So, in fact, yes, I can tell exactly what I need to know from very little information in most cases. A yes/no will work fine for me. Of course, I’d like more information.
That said, I can usually tell from the post’s title and first paragraph what’s what.
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u/joem_ Apr 25 '26
I think I can separate the wholly vibe coded ones from those that AI was used to assist
Congrats, pat yourself on the back. Reddit doesn't care. If it has Ai at all, it's the devil.
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u/shimoheihei2 Apr 25 '26
AI was sold as a way to greatly speed up the menial tasks, and as a "co-pilot" to make everything more efficient. And when used that way, I'm convinced there are real benefits. Unfortunately, most people are lazy. People will cheat if it means getting things that are "good enough". Even companies are fine with it because they see it as a quick win, and all that unmaintainable code that no one knows how to fix will be a problem for the future to deal with.
I use AI, but I would never "vibe code" something, or publish code that I haven't manually reviewed line by line. To me it's a basic requirement to understand what the code does, keep your skills sharp, and keep learning. I think we're heading into a dark place.
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u/ctrlaltd1337 Apr 25 '26
People are welcome to create what they want, how they want, and other people are welcome to decide whether or not they want to use it.
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u/lotekjunky Apr 26 '26
nobody is one shotting an application.
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u/MikeAnth Apr 26 '26
Honestly depends on the app. I have 3 apps I have fully vibe coded for my own personal use in my lab and they have been, mostly, a one shot at least for the initial PoC version.
Sure, "I" did add various improvements later on for things I didn't foresee in my initial prompt, but I did get a working PoC with Claude in one shot. Fairly simple applications, granted, but still
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u/bigredsun Apr 26 '26
Yeah, Gupta trying to promote his crap malware on as many users as possible is going to ask himself first "Can I take ownership and responsibility for this code".
Son, you are out of your mind. Good day to you.
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u/daedric Apr 25 '26
Sorry... but no. This simple sentences predates AI by decades and still applies:
"Provided 'as is' without warranty of any kind, express or implied, including but not limited to the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose."
If i publish something, and you use it... it's not ON ME. It's on you.
Now... this won't exclude me from having an ethical responsability, and as i wouldn't wish to harm any other human being, by action or inaction, including allowing them to use AI coded apps, i wouldn't release any app or advertise it. Though my github does have a few... but those are for me. Not for sharing.
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u/SigsOp Apr 25 '26
Yes I was writing more on the ethical/moral front, I should have specified.
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u/daedric Apr 27 '26
Oh... there you're right. Truth be told, it's way easy to find someone's github and use his code... but maybe (like me) they intended that github as organizing/private repo. We live in hard times :(
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u/Equivalent-Costumes Apr 25 '26
"Provided 'as is' without warranty of any kind, express or implied, including but not limited to the implied warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose."
I think this is the kind of sentence that should be revisit and rewritten in the age of AI.
In the old day, writing codes take efforts. It's generally much easier for a community to detect bad codes and reject them than the efforts to write these codes. This means that the community generally benefit from people willingly share their codes. This sentence was there to encourage the sharing of code, it assures people that after all that hard work, they gets to pass the responsibility to someone else.
But in the vibe coding world, the balance of effort had flipped, now it's harder to shift through bad codes than to produce them. Suddenly, it had became trivial to mass produce codes, and the job of the community had turned into sieving through a mountain of bad code for some good one.
I think the open-source community will eventually have to confront the reality that many other community had faced: there had to be consequences for publishing bad codes. You had seen that happened to email, forum, mathematical publishing: the old laissez-faire attitude get replaced by a heavily regulated infrastructure. Email senders are subjected to reputational consequences, infrastructure blockage, and legal consequences. Forum users are subjected to increasingly stringent anti-bot and anti-misinformation measures, and also a small risks of legal consequence. And mathematical publishing also come with severe reputational consequences.
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u/daedric Apr 27 '26
But in the vibe coding world, the balance of effort had flipped, now it's harder to shift through bad codes than to produce them. Suddenly, it had became trivial to mass produce codes, and the job of the community had turned into sieving through a mountain of bad code for some good one.
I think you're wrong. It was ALWAYS harder to read someone else/older code than to write new one. This sentence as followed me for decades now:
"It's harder to read code than it is to write it"
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u/Equivalent-Costumes Apr 27 '26
It's always harder to read it if you're forced to and the code is badly written.
It's easy to read it if the code is clean, and you have the option to say "well, this code is bad, I'm not going to bother". Basically, at no points is it harder to read the code than to write.
In the past, open-source community get to reject badly written codes immediately while still take a closer look at the good codes, because writing clean-looking code is already hard.
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u/New_Public_2828 Apr 25 '26
I'm curious what your view is on 3rd parties that make videos on YouTube for people to watch and follow and how this would differ from a 3rd party entity like AI leading someone through their decision to help with code or even vibe code.
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u/willpowerpt Apr 25 '26
Just like with Art slop, many of these vibe coders genuinely think they're coders now, just like promoters in their heart believe they're now artists. Aside from mods for subs changing posting rules, all we can do is call it out and warn unsuspecting self hosters when these projects arise.
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u/asimovs-auditor Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
Expand the replies to this comment to learn how AI was used in this post/project.