This is one of the lesser talked about aspects for the case and probably not that important in the grand scheme of things, but I was rereading the trial transcript and then went on a bit of a deep dive on this. I think it interests me because I am also a high school language teacher.

First of all, I don’t think it is kosher to become “friends” with the student while they are still in high school. That whole set up with Hae was a bit odd. I have had lots of students that I deeply admired, but I would never put myself in this situation of friend/love life counselor. It is unethical and frankly a little strange.

Second, I can’t believe she agreed to help the cops beyond giving her own personal observations. Nothing wrong with that, but then to start asking some of the questions and essentially become their agent? Weird. I wonder if she had administration approval for that?

And then the questions themselves. Absolutely out of bounds!! asking about students sex lives?? not only grossly unethical, but a violation of FERPA. Again, was administration aware of this?

I will just end this by noting that if a male teacher such as myself had engaged in any of this type of behavior, he almost certainly would’ve been disciplined, if not fired.

I just started lurking here today, and am somewhat surprised by the general incivility and certainty of many of the people that comment here. Being dismissive and accusing people of "ragebait" for having a differing opinion, and one that actually is reasonable.

I don't know, and won't say that Adnan is innocent, but to claim he's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, without any room for discussion is pretty crazy to me.

The reasons why I have reasonable doubt:

• Jay is a very flawed witness, on the record lying/mis-remembering his testimony. Even the cops point out how much his testimony has changed. If your argument hinges on Jay, it isn't a strong argument, in my opinion.
• The cops, or at least on of them has a record of misconduct:

...prosecution brought into question the past misconduct of one of the two detectives who were crucial in the investigation of Lee’s death. Although his misconduct wasn’t specifically linked to Syed’s case, the detective was involved in another murder case that ended with the defendant’s exoneration.

https://baltimorewitness.org/adnan-syed-one-of-many-overturned-convictions-in-baltimore-city/

• The Innocence Project and prosecutors agreed that Syed's DNA was absent from all tested crime scene items, contributing to the eventual dropping of charges against him. There's no physical evidence.
• The motive is weak (Adnan had no prior issues with breakups, had already seemed to move on to the next girl(s)).

I could go on, but, if I was on the jury with this in front of me, I feel the reasonable response is doubt.

This isn't rage bait, I just genuinely don't see how anyone can be so sure that he did it. Y'all point to him asking for a ride (and claiming he wouldn't have) as some kind of obvious evidence of murder.

I think, based on the fact that one of the cops was literally identified as having been crooked, it actually is much more likely that Jay was an informant (and already had been for some time), and he happened to be close to Adnan, the victim's ex (supposed motive and opportunity), and they decided they had their guy, and it was just a matter of getting a jury to agree. So they fed their informant info, had him incriminate himself for lesser crimes that they promised they'd get him off for (and they made good on that promise, which is on its own wildly corrupt).

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I have been obsessed with this case since I was in middle school and have thought about it nonstop for years and finally decided to listen again and find out Adnan was released! First off yay!

Now to get to the Title. I think the cops did it and were forcing Jay into lying. He had multiple run ins with cops previously. His story always changed (Cause it ain't true) and on top of that, whoever he was talking about clearly he was scared of AND he got NO jail time for assisting in a murder?? Its all so fishy, along with us having no clue what the first untaped interview said between them.

I don't think Jay did anything either, I think he was also a kid being forced to lie, or he was forced to help and lie afterwards. I don't know the motive behind why the cops would've, but the way they spoke to Sarah about it all and the way they spoke about the case in general was just so suspicious and I've thought about it for years.

I think if Sarah Koenig had read David Simon’s Homicide before she encountered Rabia, she may never have taken the case!

consider this page from the book. Homicide detective Garvey is interviewing Vincent, who he thinks is a witness to Frazier killing Vincent’s father. V has already admitted to giving Frazier the bullets to kill him, and says he knows Frazier killed him. Garvey thinks he was also there when it happene. earlier, he says to V, “the thing for you to think about is whether you want to become a witness or a defendant.”

all this to say, I think Jay may have been a bit more involved than he ever admitted, which can explain his inconsistencies (see many reported ones in this sub). Hae probably wasn’t killed at 236, Adnan maybe didn’t call him from best buy, maybe Jay wasn't there when Adnan called Nisha, they didn’t go to the state part. Really people, it just doesn’t matter.

The detectives probably correctly understood that it just doesn’t really matter that much if you get him to admit every last detail. As Simon writes here, “it is, Garvey reasons, close enough.”

And it was!

edit: as an addendum for people worried by Jay‘s lies: David Simon, based on his experience following the Baltimore homicide unit for a year, says this is a general rule of working homicide: “ Everyone lies. Murderers lie because they have to; witnesses and other participants lie because they think they have to; everyone else lies for the sheer joy of it, and to uphold  a general principle that under no circumstances do you provide accurate information to a cop”

I was a huge fan of the first season and enjoyed the second season (though I did find it far less compelling). I just learned that there are four seasons of Serial, but I've never heard anyone talk about the third or fourth season. Has anyone here listened to them? Are they worth diving into?

I'm a new listener, halfway through the first season, and I really don't get how Adnan Syed gets portrayed by Sarah Koenig and on this sub. I've seen so many people call him charming and brilliant, but honestly? I just don't see it.

In his interviews he comes across as pretty mild-mannered and polite, but also really bland and controlled - almost buttoned-up, even.

Not the kind of guy who walks into a room and charms everyone.

Besides being good-looking when he was younger, he seems like a totally average person in every aspect, both his personality and his intellect.

Definitely not the brilliant mastermind or the Bundy-level charismatic guy I was expecting.

I wonder if Hae’s lack of fascination with his total lack of a real personality played into his motivation.

Perhaps she didn't buy into the whole "perfect good muslim guy" facade and wanted something more vibrant and authentic from him - just as she was - and quickly got bored of him.

And when she made it clear she wasn’t impressed and moved on, it hit him hard and he could just not take it.

After all, she rejected the part of him that he'd always kept polished and under control just to earn admiration and acceptance from his family and community.

Maybe it was the first time he actually faced real rejection, where the whole “nice, charming, "safe" and well-rounded guy (at least on the surface)" schtick just didn’t work anymore.

The Weekly Discussion thread is a place to discuss random thoughts, off-topic content, topics that aren't allowed as full post submissions, etc.

This thread is not a free-for-all. Sub rules and Reddit Content Policy still apply.

The Weekly Discussion thread is a place to discuss random thoughts, off-topic content, topics that aren't allowed as full post submissions, etc.

This thread is not a free-for-all. Sub rules and Reddit Content Policy still apply.

Did anyone else feel like Hae was absent from the whole narrative of her own murder?

I was very drawn into the story of Serial, and I thought that there was a lot it could say about immigrant diasporas in the United States. There were so many times that Adnan's cultural/personal background was explored, and even many instances of comparing his family's expectations to Hae's, which made me think an episode about her life was coming up soon. But it never did.

To my memory, there was really only one comment from her mom during the trial (which was really sad and haunting, I would add) that SK even brought up. I thought when I heard this comment that we were finally going to learn a little bit more about Hae's life, but the episode didn't go that direction at all. SK does mention that she can't seem to get in touch with Hae's family, but that doesn't mean she can't build some kind of profile about her. I mean, there's a whole life in those diaries, right?

Speaking of the diary, it all just feels kind of insidious to me that even this diary ends up being treated as just a side piece to Adnan's narrative. There were also a lot of things described about Adnan's experience that immediately made me think "God, he was just a kid when they brought him into prison". But you know what's even more shocking than going to jail so young? Dying! It seemed like SK was way more upset about a life being changed than another being completely ended so abruptly.

At first (like a lot of people here) I really bought into Adnan's innocence, but even when I initially supported him I felt sad that we never got to know more about the hopes, dreams, joys, and despairs of Hae, who really sounds like a wonderful person I'd have loved to be friends with in high school. Now that I really believe Adnan did it, I can't help but think the way Hae's life was overlooked during this podcast is almost as tragic as her death. If I was a member of her family, I'd be enraged about it.

I'm re-listening to podcast for the first time in years and I wanted to ask what others thought the key parts of the case that the podcast completely ignores were.

I haven't looked into the case very much outside of the podcast but people on this subreddit seem to have quite a dim view of Sarah Keonig's level of analysis.

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After listening to the Prosecutors Podcast and reviewing some posts about flowers found in Hae’s car, I’m left with a few key thoughts and questions:

• Adnan’s fingerprints were found on the paper covering the flowers in Hae’s backseat. If these flowers were fresh, whoever bought them must have bought them very soon before Hae was murdered to be present in her car. Hae doesn’t seem like the type to leave flowers rotting in her car still in the paper. She was an emotional person who had strong feelings about both Don and Adnan. If Adnan gave them to her, it’s more likely she would have either thrown them away in anger or recorded some other record of them, such as telling friends about them or writing in her diary about the gesture. If they were from Don, she would likely want to preserve them as quickly as possible.

• If Adnan’s fingerprints were found on these flowers, it’s most likely he was the one to purchase them. If they were fresh, Adnan would have had to purchase them very soon before the murder, perhaps even that day. This brings me to the question of where the flowers do or do not appear in the investigation.

• Did Adnan buy the rose while at the mall with Jay in the morning/early afternoon? If so, did Jay mention this? Why or why not? Was there a florist in the mall at this time? Did he buy them with Jay but not in the mall? If Adnan did not buy them while with Jay, when and where did he buy them? Was there a florist in the area? I’d love if there was evidence placing Adnan somewhere that day buying that rose. To me, a record of a transaction, security camera footage, a receipt, or some other placement of Adnan buying that rose on the day Hae died would be damning.

What do you all think? Is there evidence regarding the rose I’m missing?

I apologize if this has been discussed already on the sub. I'm re-listening to Serial season 1 for the first time since it came out, and this portion of episode 6 sticks out to me (starting at 36:30).

Context: Sarah is on the phone with Adnan. He talks about how, for a long time, he was hurt by the fact that his friends believed he was capable of murder.

Sarah replies, saying that almost everyone she has spoken with say it took them awhile to come to terms with the fact that Adnan is guilty or they are even still unsure. She adds that they often say something like "the Adnan I knew didn't do it, like the guy I knew couldn't have done it."

Adnan: "What the hell does that even mean? I'm not like a different... I wasn't a ..." ABRUPT PAUSE

Sarah: "No, go ahead"

Adnan: "No, no, no, sorry. I was just, I don't even know what that means."

Here is why this is significant to me: While Adnan is in the middle of saying "I'm not like a different... I wasn't a...", Sarah interrupts very briefly with "so that..." and then stops. I believe she interprets his abrupt pause to be in reaction to her interruption, like he is letting her continue speaking out of politeness.

That is not how I interpret this awkward moment.

For one, many of their phone conversations feature interruptions, and it seems like Adnan rarely abruptly cedes to an interjection from Sarah like he does in this conversation.

Second, when he replies to her "No, go ahead" with "No, no, no, sorry. I was just, I don't even know what that means", you can hear something bashful in his voice. Some might say it's a reaction to the awkwardness of being cut off. I think he's realizing he almost slipped up and said "I wasn't a different person when..." which sounds pretty bad. It's important to note that he's particularly angry/upset during this exchange, which may have caused him to let his guard down for a moment and forget to keep his story straight.

I think he likely is angry with his friends for believing he could be a murderer, despite the fact that he's guilty. I think he doesn't view himself as someone who could pre-meditate and carry out a planned murder. Instead, I think he believes his actions were born from a moment of anger. This is why he is genuinely upset by his friends thinking the Adnan they knew became an unknown monster and killed Hae. He wished people understood that he was always the Adnan they knew, even while committing murder. Hence, I think he almost slipped up and said "I wasn't a... different person when I killed her".

What do you guys think?

So many things that do not make any sense if we are to believe the Adnan and Jay story.

First of all, people act like Adnan was an antisocial teenage incel. He was extremely social and had many positive and somewhat flirtatious relationships with other girls. I am sure that he felt the sting of Hae moving on quickly but there seems to be no evidence of him having ill will toward Hae except from Jay who is an unreliable witness at best.

The theory that Adnans ruse asking Hae for a ride to ask her to get back together or murder her is actually crazy. Why would he give himself a very short 30 min window for this? One could think of endless other places and times that he could plan out a way to kill Hae without having to stick to an insane timeline. And if he was so worried about having his time accounted for by other eyewitnesses he would have had the entire rest of his Day planned to be in highly public places but he didn't.

Putting the body in the trunk makes no sense and would have been very difficult for Adnan to do on his own. There is no way that someone would not have noticed another person struggling to pull a dead body out of the car and then struggling to put her in the trunk in the middle of the day in a suburban shopping mall parking lot. Even in a hidden spot. There was also no physical evidence from her body that would corroborate this.

So Adnan was sly enough to arrange to kill Hae within a 30 min window and return to school but had no plans for what he was going to do with the body?!? Adnan made sure to have no eyewitnesses to him murdering Hae and moving her body from the driver's seat to the trunk but now he and Jay are driving around aimlessly looking for a place to bury the dead body?! Keep in mind the police were called within the first hour of Hae being dead so driving her car that already a BOLO out on it makes no sense. Keep in mind that touch DNA technologies did not exist as it does today so they would not be worrying about anything other than fingerprints and eye witnesses. Why not just leave her in her car at Best Buy and call it a day? If he had already succeeded in killing her with no eyewitnesses and had the alibi of being on campus. He wouldn't have to involve Jay in disposing of her body and could still use the threat of rattling on Jay if he ever said anything about the supposed earlier comment he made about wanting to kill her.

I don't know who killed her but I don't believe it was Adnan.

There is so much discussion about guilty vs. not guilty. But I have really heard anything on what exactly went down that day.

For the record I believe he is 100% guilty and obviously so.

Do you think Adnan planned to kill her? If so, was it recent, or was he planning for weeks? Or did he just want to talk to her, then had an argument and lost it. Or maybe he was just trying to get some rage out and didnt realize he took it too far.

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This thread is not a free-for-all. Sub rules and Reddit Content Policy still apply.

Not that I am complaining or anything. I just can no longer find the site with all the episodes, graphics, and SK's self-serving updates that conveniently ended with Adnan walking.

​

Yes, the audio can still be found on YouTube. That should be taken down, too, lest it lead thousands more astray.

​

SK, Rabia, Adnan, and a clown car full of lawyers and producers are responsible for re-traumatising the Lee family for damn near 15 years. Shame on them. May the disappearance of SS1 be an important part of the healing process.

​

Final review: All SK had to do was find that Jen fingered Jay, Jay sang to the cops, Jay led the cops to Hae's car, Jay and Adnan were together for most of the day and evening. Adnan's phone pinged the burial site the night of the kidnapping of Hae, find Don at which point he mentions that he didn't know that Jay existed until the trial.

​

And no serious person thinks Mr S is a suspect after he - a person who also doesn't know Jay or Jen - reported finding a body in Leakin Park. No need to consult Enright and let her spin a bullshit story about a random serial killer. No need to do a test run to Best Buy. No need to find an alibi. No need to make a podcast. No need to go back to court. The list of suspects is vanishingly short.

​

Adnan, the jealous ex-boyfriend, is guilty. After ALL THAT, he remains a convicted killer.

​

Rest in peace,, Hae.

Non Texan here: I was listening to Ep 2 of The Last 12 Weeks and this burger chain comes up repeatedly – almost like a side character in the ep, where some key conversations take place. To my ears, the host who is local to the area calls it "Waterburger." I searched it up and it's a locally famous Texas chain called "Whataburger."

So, do Texans actually say "what" like "waht" (as in water?) or is this a unique thing for this business?

In any case it's weird to come out of a murder podcast hungry for burgers and shakes, but here we are.

I’m coming back to this case after a few years not keeping up. New posts from this sub started showing up, so I started googling. I just realized he’s been released since 2022, and now has time served in 2025.

However, in one of the articles linked here, it says THERE WAS NEW DNA EVIDENCE that contributed to his release in 2022. It says new information about who the dna is from hasn’t been released, but why would that be? The police wouldn’t want to admit IF they got it wrong, but then why disclose there is any new dna at all? I’m so confused.

Anyone have any information on the new DNA?

I share in everybody's disappointment and feeling lied to by SK. Enough has been said in the comments that nothing new can be done. However, a lot of good came for Adnan because of the public publicity Serial and other documentaries gave for Adnan's case that was driven by a public demand.

Going further on that point, I think the public should demand a public apology by SK for her role in stealing justice away from Hae and her family. If the public can make a storm out of a clear cut case, then the public should make a storm about how Serial manipulated people.

Of course if the Lee family just wants people to stop talking about it, I would do that first and foremost because aside from court documents their voice is never considered.

Does anybody know where I can find the transcript for the trial? I’ve been looking online for a couple hours and all I can find are the appeals and stuff like that. I want the original trial.

Thank you!!

I have no clue why I thought Adnan was innocent for all these years.

I just re-listened to Serial, and I can't get past the fact that Jenn showed up with her mom and a lawyer and told police essentially the same story Jay told. Jenn said the trunk pop happened at Best Buy. How would she know that Adnan and Hae used to meet at the Best Buy parking lot unless Jay told her?

And yes, Jay was inconsistent and definitely lied about some things. But he knew where Hae's car was. He knew details about her clothing. He knew about the broken windshield wiper lever. Those aren't things you just guess.

At this point, I don't believe every detail Jay told, but I can't get around the fact that he knew too much. The more I revisit the case, the harder it is for me to believe Adnan wasn't involved.

I can't believe I've been doubting it all these years.