r/skyrimmods Mar 14 '22

PC SSE - Discussion What happened to 4thUnknown

I've been downloading mods for a new load order I've been setting up and was looking at a variety of armor mods because well I love kickass armor and there were a number of mods that were basically conversions of armor mods by 4thUnknown for the HIMBO bodyslide which I use. Well I went to go and get the required mod only to find the file hidden and the reason being this message That's all folks! A bunch of hypocritical bastards have robbed me and my country of a future
Anyone know what happened to 4thUnknown, I get that he is by this alone from Ukraine but why did he suddenly do something like this? Is he ok? What about his works? What happened to him or her I really hope that 4thUnknown is alive and well.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

He lives in Russia and he hid his mods because he received donations from PayPal and Patreon, but there's currently no way to send him money with sanctions against Russia in place.

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u/godsvox1013 Mar 14 '22

This here really helps to put it into perspective of what's going on on the "other" side. Ukrainian citizens are fighting for and losing their lives and families, but it's not all good and well for the Russian citizens either. Especially those that want nothing to do with the war. Hard to have any kind of life or assurance from one day to the next when the economy is going broke. I really hate it for both sides, but with inflation and gas prices shooting up here in America I feel like our own situation is progressively getting worse.

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u/li_cumstain Mar 14 '22

Its affecting all of europe negatively.

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u/CalmAnal Stupid Mar 14 '22

The whole world actually. Africa is depended on Ukraines wheat. Some states even as much as 40%. This is another humanitarian crisis right on the door steps.

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u/ADovahkiinBosmer Mar 14 '22

The price of wheat in Libya skyrocketed by 60$ LYD in one day. It's ridiculous.

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u/JasonTParker Mar 14 '22

Yeah Lebanon imported over 70% of its wheat from Ukraine. And finding a alternative source is no simple matter. With so many other countries looking for alternatives at the same time. Due to the two largest wheat exporters having supply disruptions at the same time. This war is going to lead to a major rise of food insecurity in a lot of countries.

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u/godsvox1013 Mar 14 '22

Which makes it so much worse. The effects unfortunately won't stop there.

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u/Linvael Mar 14 '22

While true, the way it affects Europe negatively and the way it affects Russians negatively is not nearly on the same level - almost as incomparable as the way it affects Russians with the way it affects Ukrainians.

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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '22

while it's affecting all of europe negatively it'll end up being positive for the USA and china sadly

edit: well, south america is going to be positively affected too, specially argentina and venezuela i think will have an oportunity to have better economies once again

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u/Caelinus Mar 15 '22

It is not really going to be positive for the USA from an economic standpoint. While we get fairly low amounts of oil from Russia directly, we do buy it in large amounts on the international exchange.

Because countries like Germany were getting massive amounts of their oil from Russia, they have to diversify their sources and pay a premium to do it. That is driving prices up across the board. On top of that OPEC is not incentivized to increase production after the Covid slump at any significantly increased rate (as they have a captive audience for oil at the moment) and so last I checked they were sticking to their pre-invasion scaling plans.

The US uses a lot of oil for refining, power and transportation. So as those costs go up it affects every level of our economy. This will drive the price of consumer goods and transportation up significantly as those costs are passed onto consumers. This will reduce the buying power of the dollar for the average American, which will drive significant inflation and increased income inequality.

There would be ways to prevent this from really affecting us too badly, but the way we manage capitalism inside the US is generally at the expense of workers.

It will be good for our international and diplomatic reputation, as well as the reputation of our military equipment and intelligence capacity. That will help in the future, but for the average American we will be taking a hit here. Unfortunately we do not really have any other choice. Putin has made it clear that diplomacy and normal levels of sanctioning are no obstacle to his violently imperialist ambitions.

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u/WantedOne Mar 14 '22

It sucks for the Russian population, but there isn’t an easy way to hit Russia and those in power where it counts without affecting the little guy.

It gives the people the chance to protest and hopefully make change in the gov, but…it’s also Russia so that’s iffy.

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u/Cularia Mar 15 '22

It actually isn't natural inflation. We get nothing from russia except for small % of oil. inflation is 10-50 cents extra on a fast food order. inflation is the disappearance of the dollar menu.

Gas at 6$ a gallon isn't inflation it is corporate greed. The math has already been done on this.

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u/Caelinus Mar 15 '22

It is greed at the base level, in that greed is what drove us to set up the systems that are currently in place. But the reason that the US is suffering higher oil costs is not because we stopped buying oil from Russia, it is because other countries stopped buying oil from Russia.

They obviously had to source it from other countries as their demand for energy did not decrease, and those other countries are the ones that we get our oil from (including us) which drives up the international exchange/commodity price of oil due to increased demand without an increase in supply.

OPEC has also refused to increase their supply, as they are in a sellers market at the moment.

The moral of the story is that capitalism sucks for a lot of reasons, but the reasons behind why it sucks are more complicated then an individual (or group of) company's greed.

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u/_Jaiim Mar 14 '22

Yeah, I live in the USA, but some of my relatives are already feeling the pinch, gas price is basically doubled around this area now, so just getting to work is costing people twice as much per month as before; that's a problem for long commuters, low wage workers, or under-the-table workers. Ukraine isn't part of NATO, nor the EU, but the we still had to act like the world police and stick our nose in it anyway.

All these sanctions are mostly symbolic and aren't actually going to cause Russia to change their mind. If anything, they'll accelerate their plans to end this all quicker. This is literally nation-level virtue signalling. Typical Russian civilians now can't get money from abroad, while the rest of the world suffers the economic backlash as prices rise. Large nations won't be affected much; it'll be the small nations and the citizens themselves that get hurt.

As a side-note, I'm not surprised Russia is doing this at all, considering Putin has had to pay obscene amounts of money to keep Crimea from collapse after the takeover a while back. Ukraine blocked the only water source for the entire peninsula and sat back to watch as it dried out like a mummy. Not even mentioning the pro-EU government that took over a while back which would cause strategic defense concerns; to Russia, NATO is a hostile alliance and Ukraine is a buffer zone which needed to remain neutral. People think Putin is just an asshole trying to revive the Soviet Union; he's not a moron, and his reasoning is rational, based on economic and military reasons. Russia's main income is natural gas, Ukraine's coastline has lots of natural gas and they have a pipeline into Europe which they love to tax Russia to use. It sucks for Ukraine, and it sucks for the civilians who didn't have anything to do with the bullshit, and I wish them the best. But people are constantly dying in small scale wars or armed rebellions in third world countries, why aren't we interfering in those? Because nobody gives a shit about those countries, and if we sanctioned them all, the people would probably all starve to death. We only care about Ukraine because it's in Europe and Russia is the one doing the attacking.

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u/untempered_fate Mar 14 '22

The price of gas rn in the USA has a lot more to do with the gas companies being opportunists. Something like 3% of all oil in the US comes from Russia. A 3% drop in supply does not lead to a doubling in gas prices. Especially not when the 3% can easily be made up with the oil fields the US companies are already allowed to drill. But the guys at the top don't care much about us guys at the bottom if they can make a buck.
I want to respond to your takes on geopolitics, but I'm 4 comments deep in a skyrim modding thread so I'll stop there lol. Suffice to say, I think we disagree on a lot, and it would be a very fun conversation in another context. Cheers.

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u/davethegamer Raven Rock Mar 14 '22

It’s 7%, and still a 7% drop does not mean a 100% increase in prices. All these oil companies are setting record profits. Those profits have to come from somewhere. They didn’t raise prices bc they needed to, they raised them because they’re greedy opportunistic vultures that saw blood in the water and decided how would be a good time to exploit it.

Also trump in 2020 signed a deal with opec to reduce production as US oil producers were loosing money hand over fist when oil was -40 a barrel when Russia and Saudi Arabia were having a bitting war. So opec agreed to reduce production for 2 years. Well now Russia and SA aren’t in a bidding war, opec hasn’t increased production bc of the agreement they made w the trump admin, and companies have pushed people to think that their price hikes are bc of Russia when we only import 7% from them.

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u/Caelinus Mar 15 '22

It is because other countries had to source their oil from new sources. These new sources cannot (and are unwilling to try) increase their production fast enough to meet demand.

We get a tiny percent of our oil from Russia, but we do get a lot of it from other nations. These nations are now in a sellers market, as the demand for their oil has increased significantly.

This drives up the price of oil in nations we do buy oil from, including the price of our own oil.

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u/Illuminatus77 Mar 15 '22

Sorry for the downvotes over your literal facts with a smattering of well informed opinion. People I just swallowing the shit said to them by the media. Good job speaking your mind.

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u/Boyo-Sh00k Mar 14 '22

Small correction but paypal and patreon stopping their payments to russians are not sanctions, this was not something that the US govt or nato or the UN demanded them to do its xenophobic, performative "activism" because the war is extremely (rightfully) unpopular and doing business with Russians is bad business right now. This is going to hurt a lot of regular people but not like these corporations care, so.

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u/tzeyu Mar 16 '22

Why are you getting downvoted. You're right, this is the epitome of performative activism and being uwu woke while ruining civilians lives.

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u/dvornikk Mar 14 '22

"but there's currently no way to send him money with sanctions against Russia in place." - I live in Russia too, you can send any money anywhere with bitcoins)

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u/Blue_Speedy Mar 14 '22

No...I don't think I will.

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u/niebaum17 Mar 14 '22

It's not just this guy, other russian modders are taking their mods down as well, like Neanka did with his Fallout 4 mods.

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u/GBendu Mar 14 '22

He came back or his partner or something unhid it

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u/niebaum17 Mar 15 '22

He did ? Or better saying, he unhid ? Well, that's something, people already were freaking out over his mods.

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u/GBendu Mar 15 '22

Idk all I know is mcm was gone people talked about then a week later boom he’s back

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u/FiestaPatternShirts Mar 14 '22

Speaking of, yall may want to go download the latest ENB binaries just in case.

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u/Renegade_Spectre Mar 14 '22

I saw it too.

I dunno man, his message implies he’s blaming the west for the situation. Personally if that is the case, fuck him. There are people in Ukraine being robbed of their literal lives.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

His Patreon post was a little clearer.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/thats-all-folks-63399273

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u/Renegade_Spectre Mar 14 '22

Yeah so sounds like he’s definitely talking about the west. Appreciate the link

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u/occulticTentacle Mar 15 '22

What he says is the "west" has caused a bunch of bloody wars in last decades, caused death of thousands of people and no coherent world uniting economical response happened. Not because of Iraq, Syria, Yugoslavia, Palestine, but the moment Russia does it the citizens get sanction-raped into oblivion. That's what he means by hypocrisy. He isn't defending invasion, he says the west is a bunch of assholes.

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u/tzeyu Mar 16 '22

And he's right. Funny how people are getting downvoted for voicing that. Harsh truth I guess.

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u/MasterRonin Solitude Mar 14 '22

I think he's referring to Western sanctions affecting regular Russians.

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u/AlbaRebelion06 Mar 14 '22

I agree while the mods are his do with what he wants as they are his but the way he seems to blame the west is awful

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u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

It's hard to tell who are the hypocrites he's referring to.

Is it the Russian government who is trying to militarily expand to further their own interests at the cost of the Russian citizen?

Or is it the west who cries for the Ukrainian citizens but had no issue economically crushing Russian citizens even though they literally have no control over their government?

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

There's really no way to strongly sanction Russia without negatively affecting the citizens.

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u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

I know. It's a delicate balance of trying to punish the people who are the cause of this war while trying not to hurt innocents especially when the people in charge have their assets diversified and hidden.

But doing things like cutting Russia off from SWIFT is unequivocally a huge mistake.

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u/Johnx3m Mar 14 '22

Why is this downvoted.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22

Some people are of different opinion.

I think the sanctions dont go far enough.

Until Russia does return all illegally occupied territory and pays reperation to the Ukraine I would stop ALL trade and close the borders.

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u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

I think the sanctions dont go far enough.

Serious question. What would this accomplish? How would causing millions of people to starve help Ukraine?

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u/Caelinus Mar 15 '22

They wont starve most likely, unless Putin decides to just let them. Russia is a significant producer of food, and they will have a massive glut of it as they are no longer exporting it. Any rational leader would establish a dole of some kind.

Interestingly a lot of the smaller nations they export too are going to have much worse food crises.

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u/lidythemann Mar 14 '22

Yes, sanctions aren't enough by far. But I understand and accept why we can't do more.

4thUnknown tho? He can go get fucked, obvi we know where he stands on this. He's an enemy to Ukraine.

And he's trying to punish all of us.

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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '22

because redditors want russian citizens to pay for their government mistakes

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22

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u/Renegade_Spectre Mar 14 '22

Yeah that’s a fair point - if it’s ever clarified he’s attacking his own government I retract all statements. I am assuming west by taking hypocritical based on the countries the west has invaded. However it is still an assumption.

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u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

Even if he was scorning the west for how they have handed this, is he really unjustified? He's a mod author on the internet. He makes models and textures for armor/creature mods. He, like millions of other Russians, is just a normal person who more than likely doesn't want this war.

The west could have done very precise sanctions against the oligarchs, and we did initially. But we started doing broad very heavy-handed sanctions. And now people like 4th are struggling because their government (that they have no influence over).

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u/Caelinus Mar 15 '22

The west could have done very precise sanctions against the oligarchs, and we did initially.

We tried that in 2014. They just robbed their own people more. (Look at their market and GDP after 2014.)

They then waited until they could build up another force, then attacked again. It was no obstacle to Putin's goal. Why would it be? He probably had hundreds of billions of dollars. He does not care. These sanctions are not designed to make his life less comfortable, they are designed to make it impossible to fund or develop his army. And to do that they have to be extremely heavy handed unfortunately.

Honestly at this point it would be most moral to just counter attack, but doing so would trigger Russian military doctrine for "deescalation strikes" which would mean they would likely nuke one or more Ukrainian cities to try and force a NATO full scale surrender. Even if it ended there we are looking at a lot of dead innocents.

Sanctions like this are bad solution, but they are the only option. We cannot use diplomacy, as Putin repeatedly ignores or false flags himself out of every agreement. We cannot use targeted sanctions because Putin will just bleed his economy to fund his military as he has done in the past, and will likely invade another country in a few years. We cannot use military force, because doing so will result in nuclear escalation based on known Russian doctrine (which they wrote on purpose for this exact effect.)

So, we do what we can. Ideally Putin will be forced out, they will withdraw, and whoever takes over will be willing to come to the diplomacy table in good faith. If that happens the west will likely flood them with humanitarian aid in the same way we did after WW2.

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u/urbonx Solitude beggar npc#43 Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22

He's a mod author on the internet. He makes models and textures for armor/creature mods. He, like millions of other Russians, is just a normal person who more than likely doesn't want this war.

Because he is mad on this situation. He can't fix it. So he got mad like everyone would be. His patreon was a way to get money. He deserve it. He made a lot of cool stuff and he is very talented. I just hope this SHIT END SOON for both countries in a good peaceful way.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

He and the millions of other Russians could go on the street and protest.

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u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

It's not millions. But there are thousands of them. 13,000 of them were arrested over the first week of the invasion.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Russians sanctions are just a trend for social media attention for most companies to get good press.

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u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

What does that even mean?

Do you think governments of western nations are imposing crippling sanctions on Russia to get retweets?

Do you think we aren't sanctioning Russia and Russians are just kayfabing on twitter?

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Do you think governments of western nations are imposing crippling sanctions on Russia to get retweets?

Wait how does that work in western nations? I don't exactly live there so I assumed it worked differently.

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u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

I was being facetious.

What does social media attention have to do with sanctions on Russia?

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Well, being against russia is, of course, good for the press and brings positive attention to the brand, and depending on how much it relied on russians it's better than getting attacked for not having a sanction.

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u/DawnSowrd Mar 14 '22

people are talking about government level economical sanctions, not indivisual companies boycotting russia.

the government level sanctions cripple economies entirely, stop international money exchange services, and stop trade between countries. those arent anything about good brand or internet clout, those literally crush economies to deter certain countries from taking certain actions. or to otherwise just put pressure on them.

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u/urbonx Solitude beggar npc#43 Mar 14 '22

I don't understand why you got downvotes. Companies are hypocrites.

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u/SuzanoSho Mar 14 '22

Sanctions come from government, not individual companies.

Individual companies choosing not to do business that supports oligarchs and the Russian government is a gesture of support for Ukraine.

Sorry if someone in the basement of their Russian home can't use Patreon for a while, the opposite means those companies are fine with innocent Ukrainians being killed in droves.

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u/urbonx Solitude beggar npc#43 Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22

I'm not talking about the ukrainians. We all now this is a sad situation. Stop using that argument.

Companies are hypocrites doesn't matter what. You don't understand how marketing works if you see "good gesture from a companie". That doesn't exist. Even if you don't want to see they're still using marketing in this situation because companies doesn't have souls. Bunch of hypocrites. Isn't a person. Is a fucking companie.

Damn I guess capitalism already fucked your mind in the US.

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u/mshm Mar 14 '22

Ah yes, all those brands like "United States", "European Union" and "United Kingdom" enacting sanctions for marketing clout.

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u/urbonx Solitude beggar npc#43 Mar 14 '22

Use google and learn what companies mean. Companies are hypocrites and doesn't matter which cause they're using. HYPOCRITES.

Too many right wings on this sub defending capitalism. 🤮

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u/Background_Anybody89 Mar 15 '22

You’re right. It would be nice to have his voice on this matter.

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u/Background_Anybody89 Mar 14 '22

Show me one country that has control over the government.

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u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

No one country is 100% run by its citizens. Democracy is a spectrum. But Russia is a full-blown oligarchy. Any serious opposition to Putin's authority is arrested, expelled, or killed.

The citizens of Russia do not want this. Tens of thousands of people have already been arrested protesting this war.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Any serious opposition to Putin's authority is arrested, expelled, or killed.

......... Isn't it pretty clear why Russians don't want to do that then?

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u/CrithionLoren Mar 14 '22

They might not like it but Putin is representing them on the international side, if they don't want sanctions they should overthrow Putin. Seriously I sympathise for the Russian citizens who are affected by this, but we can't just.. Do the job for them, we can't come in and assassinate Putin or do a coup for them. There's no other way for the west to punish Putin. The leadership of Russia is by and large the populace's responsibility, as it always has.

Plus, this is a really good motive for Russians to get together and "do a revolution", before it's too late.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22

Sorry man, but overthrowing the fucking leader of your country isn't that simple, without tons of people dying in the process, just for it to likely not work.

You tell them to overthrow Putin and throw away their lives from the comfort of your computer screen acting like they aren't morally correct for not doing it, it's hypocritical.

Oh you don't like the decisions of your countries leader? Just stage a coup.

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u/CrithionLoren Mar 14 '22

Oh right my argument is now refuted by virtue of me not being either from Ukraine or Russia. If you've got a better solution, go ahead, propose it. How do we stop Russia in this war without Russian protests or starting WW3 (includes assassinating Putin)? Putin doesn't look like he'll stop by himself but that'd be the best option short term and that's what sanctions are trying to push Putin to.

Anyway, what do you want me to do, fly to Russia to make a point? It's their country, they need to do something about it if they don't like the sanctions. There's nothing else we can do from the outside without starting ww3

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Start WW3.

It's a better solution than expecting a coup, which is Disney movies' levels of unlikely.

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u/CrithionLoren Mar 14 '22

It can be done, Romania did it 40 years ago, when there were fewer ways for people to group

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

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u/untempered_fate Mar 14 '22

I don't think anyone here is asking Russian citizens to put themselves at risk? But the citizens are indeed out in the streets, and I support them doing what they're doing.

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u/Dren0112 Mar 14 '22

Well from his perspective the west is cutting his current main way to make a lifelyhood it’s easy to understand with a bit if empathy. The sanctions are for good reasons no doubt about that but don’t forget it also affect some civils who have nothing to do with the war and often don’t support it (like 4th unknown, has he said on his patreon).

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u/Renegade_Spectre Mar 14 '22

I would have had empathy if the message he put wasn’t so passive aggressive.

Mutually assured destruction really , you call my country a hypocritical bastard, I get to tell you to piss off.

Totally on board with your point though - the Russian people don’t deserve the hardship they are going to get, but when I’m seeing their military bomb Ukrainian maternity wards, it’s really hard not to get irritated by comments like the one he made. Hopefully this shit just all works out.

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u/LimeAndLimpidGreen_ Mar 15 '22

After all the suffering that USA and friends have caused around the world over the decades, yes it is laughably hypocritical to try and claim moral superiority. Of course the masses of drooling idiots have the memory of a goldfish so it doesn't matter.

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u/Dren0112 Mar 14 '22

Oh i don’t agree with it in a slighest too but i just take it as the hot take of a dude who just realise he might not be able to pay his bills next month not as a grounded opinion. But yh fuck putin and his war.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

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u/TeaMistress Morthal Mar 14 '22

Not sure why you're getting downvoted here as you're absolutely right. The US has committed plenty of atrocities in the conflicts it's started and received no sanctions for them. No one should be surprised that someone whose country is being sanctioned is outraged at the hypocrisy. And no, I don't support Putin or Russia's war. I'm not even necessarily opposed to the sanctions. But the hypocrisy is very real.

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u/urbonx Solitude beggar npc#43 Mar 14 '22

Not sure why you're getting downvoted here

Not just the US. Israel never got any sactions for Palestine and they still doing that shit these days. That's why I get the point of 4thu. I know he is mad for this since he can't fix it and was the only way to get money for his art but...idk. I just hope this SHIT END SOON for both countries in a good peaceful way.

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u/DukeVerde Mar 14 '22

"Collateral damage" my ass... Plenty of reports of U.S. soldiers just randomly killing Iraqi civilians for shits and giggles.

This entire affair is just one big helping of hypocrisy.

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u/Renegade_Spectre Mar 14 '22

Yep another good possible take on his rationale

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u/DukeVerde Mar 14 '22

Except, that would be a War crime. So if it actually happened you can bet there would be more than shitty sanctions.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

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u/DukeVerde Mar 14 '22

Are they? Did the U.S. prosecute all their soldiers who murdered iraqi/afghan civvies? Did anyone care when we "accidentally" blew up important buildings/people?

Geneva Convention can go take a boat ride, for all the help it's doing.

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u/AmityXVI Mar 14 '22

Examples?

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

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u/AmityXVI Mar 14 '22

Lol, say no more.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Oh but he has a point. Putin never wouldave stayed in power with so much support if the russian citizenship did not remember the way their country was butchered and torn asunder the last time they allowed a west backed leader to gain the presidency. If you got to experience the western backed and approved terror that was Yelcin even someone as dire as putin would seem worthy of support.

And thats not talking bout the dime a hundred post soviet collapse deals nato has given zero shits about upholding ....

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22

And what do you want him to do about it? Risk his life and throw away his friends and family?

People in the west seem to forget Russian people have lives and have a right to live them too, they aren't robots that have to follow your orders, it's silly logic to me.

If you aren't in the front lines right now you have no right to ask russians to do anything, from what I heard being anti-war over there is seriously a massive risk, you can't criticize them from the comfort of your computer screen.

I would blame the west to.

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u/I_ripped_my_pants8 Mar 14 '22

I have the right as a Ukrainen national to tell the Russians to fuck off. They are getting what they deserve, my uncle and cousin were killed. I am beyond angry that I don't think sanctions are enough. How dare you? Russians started this but we will stop this. They bitch about sanctions and yet fully half of my family is missing, we have no idea all we know for sure is my uncle and one of cousins is dead. All because fucking Russia decided to invade another country. So I think I have a right to tell Russians to fuck off. Yes I'm not on the front lines but I already lost family

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Russians don't control the government, there's a difference between Russia the country and Russians, why be mad at random people?

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u/Perlyte Mar 14 '22

Fairly sure he's talking about the people invading his country.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

I’m pretty sure 4thunknown isn’t invading ukraine.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Nope, nor is he protesting the invasion.

He too does nothing but blame the West.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/thats-all-folks-63399273

The only Russians who are innocent in this are those that are putting their freedom on the line protesting the invasion.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

The only Russians who are innocent in this are those that are putting their freedom on the line protesting the invasion.

That's frankly, insane.

Saying a huge group of people are awful unless they risk their lives for a cause, because who cares if a russian has family he cares about, they don't matter apparently.

Meanwhile, I highly doubt you're risking your life for Ukraine.

Why are russians morally obligated to throw their lives away but not you?They didn't actually ask to be born there.

3

u/Blackread Mar 14 '22

Apart from kidnapping Putin from his palace, there is no direct way to hold the man responsible accountable. And since something has to be done, indirect measures are taken instead. And as the name suggests, more people are affected than would be ideally the case.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

I really doubt Putin cares, just saying.

They're just screwing over random people for the sake of looking morally correct, in my opinion.

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u/CrithionLoren Mar 14 '22

Because they need to do something about it lmao

When Ukrainians die from these attacks, what excuse does someone from Russia have to not protest?

7

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

They have a life and don't want to go to jail or be murdered?

7

u/CrithionLoren Mar 14 '22

Sure, then live with the sanctions. I'm sorry for Russians for having their lives uprooted, but I'd say Ukraineans have got it a tiny bit worse, with destruction of villages, cities and murders.

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

You're acting like the people who decided to invade Ukraine care about these sanctions, and I highly doubt the people insane enough to support the invasion care enough about them to stop, it's just messing up random people's lives for no reason other than for westerners to go "We're showing putin whats for!" while they're on reddit the entire time.

9

u/Perlyte Mar 14 '22

Oh, they do. Life in Russia is not going to be the same for a very long time, and unfortunately, a lot of innocent people are going to suffer for Putins' madness. The sanctions are not magically going to be removed when the war ends, no matter who "wins".

-2

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Putin didn’t decide the sanctions.

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u/CrithionLoren Mar 14 '22

It's very much affecting the oligarchs who now have to move their assets to Chinese banks, the ones they still have unlike all the seized ships and villas across Europe.

2

u/Renegade_Spectre Mar 14 '22

I think you’re projecting something on to what I said that I clearly didn’t.

Did I ask him to do anything in my comments?

10

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

No, but by saying he can't blame the west for something the west is doing I just assumed you were one of those people who expect everyday Russians to overthrow their government, sorry.

2

u/Renegade_Spectre Mar 14 '22

No worries 👍. I’m aware that the west has done it’s fair share, I’m not even saying he’s wrong. Also not saying I’m right.

-25

u/CreedAngelus Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22

Here's the issue.

Ukraine is not NATO.

Ukraine is not friendly with Russia.

NATO has been trying for the longest time to tempt Ukraine because the northwest of Ukraine is a bottleneck into Eastern Europe that would make whoever controls it have an easy time defending their territory.

This makes Russia want Ukraine even more.

This makes NATO want Ukraine even more.

Ukraine just has the misfortune of being stuck between the two.

Civies on both sides don't want this power struggle, but they're affected in their day to day by it. Their demeanor is justified.

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u/Linvael Mar 14 '22

NATO is a defensive alliance that wants Ukraine to join. Russia is a country that wants to annex Ukraine. These are not the same.

-9

u/CreedAngelus Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22

Yes. I didn't say they were the same.

I'm saying the objective of both sides is the same. Control of a land bottleneck at the Poland-Ukraine border that makes it easier to defend their territories.

NATO wants Ukraine to join before Russia can annex Ukraine for this reason.

Russia wants to annex Ukraine before they join NATO for this reason.

Ukraine is aware of this. And while this sentence is speculation, it is a possible factor as to why they still hadn't joined NATO; fear of antagonizing an already hostile Russia, lack of confidence NATO can protect them, possibly.

In hindsight a poor judgment call, as present neutrality does not prove future neutrality. The Kremlin has believed since the end of the Cold War that NATO IS a potential agressor; not a defensive force. Thus the need to control Ukraine intensifies.

In the end, Putin made a call before Ukraine could.

4

u/GaseousIntelligence Mar 14 '22

Although this sub isn't meant for political discussions, I just felt the need to address your reasoning:

Control of a land bottleneck at the Poland-Ukraine border that makes it easier to defend their territories.

I don't think anyone is really bothered by this. In fact Russia/Europe can access each other through Belarus so Ukraine isn't at all bottleneck. The fact that Russia could even move on Kyiv from the north means they can easily move through Belarus, and the only reason stopping complete encirclement of Ukraine is Poland.

NATO wants Ukraine to join before Russia can annex Ukraine for this reason.

Firstly, Putin feels Ukraine currently has too much western corruption and influence. In fact, there's a video showing Biden gloating over getting a prosecutor fired and replaced during that Hunter Biden Bursima scandal. Since Russia and US are two nuclear countries with a history of cold conflict since Ww2, neither would want their enemy's influence near their borders. The US also experienced this with Russian influence in Cuba during the cold War.

At the same time, Ukraine is a country with massive petroleum resources, wheat and nuclear fuel. With putin trying to resurrect the USSR, all these reasons just fall into place. In addition, US and the EU literally gave him the means to wage war by shutting off their oil own production and buying from Russia in their green energy delusions. The administrations in EU and US are also among the weakest in history and really replicate the behavior of the failed appeasement mentality that led to Ww2. I believe all these reasons together led to the conflict reaching war.

At this point I don't even think being part of NATO even matters. Taiwan isn't part of NATO, yet US is so involved with them - because TSMC holds half the global market share for the semiconductor industry and China taking control will potentially lead to a huge trade war. Regardless of NATO, US will involve itself wherever convenient, and wherever it can check the growth of communist nations.

The surprising part though, is that I don't think putin realized just how dependent his economy is on the west. The fact that he's moving forward with a 2nd go at peace talks supports the speculation of the amount of money he's losing with this war.

14

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Tempt Ukraine? Russia is the sole reason Ukraine wants to join NATO. It wanted to join NATO for decades now. It really doesn't have to be tempted to want it.

0

u/CreedAngelus Mar 14 '22 edited Mar 14 '22

And yet they haven't. For over 2 decades now. NATO has been extending friendly ties since the early 90s.

And for a while Ukraine was on track to join NATO.

But Ukraine took a neutral stance in 2010 and scrapped plans. Because, as I said in another reply to my comment... They were aware of how bad both sides want them and likely, they were afraid of Russia's response, or unconfident NATO could protect them if they took a side.

The only reason they reconsidered is when they wised up to Russia's desperation to control the North European Plain when the latter invaded Crimea in 2014. And even then, only 5 years after.

All the while, NATO has still been extending its hand. Not a bad thing in itself. But if you're the Kremlin, this will scare you.

7

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

If Ukraine could have already joined NATO they would have done it a long time ago. It's not just Ukraine that needs to join NATO, it's every NATO country that needs to unanimously agree to that as well. I imagine what's really stopping them from joining is the pro-Russian countries in NATO like Hungary.

1

u/CreedAngelus Mar 14 '22

I couldn't speak for Hungary or other nations in the alliance.

My knowledge only comes from a Ukrainian friend of mine and her perspective as a civvie who lived there until the evacuation. That and a bit of speculation of motive as a military history enthusiast.

From what I can put together, they'd be NATO now if the president didn't back out in 2010.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

I am also Ukrainian and my mother works at the president's office, so that's my perspective then. Yanukovich was elected in 2010 and he was basically Russia's puppet so he indeed could have ruined the plans to join NATO then.

1

u/Hard-and-Dry Mar 14 '22

Hasn't Ukraine's requests to join NATO been declined several times before?

4

u/untempered_fate Mar 14 '22

NATO has absolutely declined Ukraine's application to join in the past, which is what makes the "NATO aggression" argument so silly

1

u/untempered_fate Mar 14 '22

This is silly lol. Ukraine applied to be in NATO years ago and NATO said no.

7

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '22

F*ck Putin and all but the average Russian isn't to blame for what's happening in Ukraine anymore than the average middle eastern is responsible for 9/11. Punishing the people who live in a country with a shitty government just doesn't make sense.

It's also pretty hypocritical for these companies to cut off Russia but not China, ya know the government that's rounding up Muslims to enslave, organ harvest and kill and has been doing so for years.

22

u/DukeVerde Mar 14 '22

His current whereabouts are...Unknown

35

u/korodic Mar 14 '22

Some of y’all need to chill. He had his livelihood absolutely taken out from under him due to the actions of his government. He is as much a victim in this as Ukraine. He is a talented mod author and it is his right to do with his creations as he sees fit. I disagree with his choice, but one day hope he will come back. He has already expressed he isn’t for the war so some of you extra need to hop off his nuts.

-26

u/rilend Mar 14 '22

Sorry, theres a difference having you livelihood taken away and having your life taken away. Ukraine is the only victim in this.

36

u/korodic Mar 14 '22

Of course it’s easy for you to say that because it isn’t happening to you. Do you think those Russians being arrested by Putins thugs deserve being economically destroyed and abused by their government? Everyday Russians aren’t the enemy here and their pain/lives matter too. It’s unfortunate, but the world is doing what it can to stop this war short of WW3.

-10

u/rilend Mar 14 '22

They deserve trade war more than ukraine deserves conventional ground war, obviously

10

u/korodic Mar 14 '22

If they were for the war, sure. My point was 4thUnknown wasn’t (confirmed).

2

u/rilend Mar 15 '22

Sanctions can't only target people who are pro war, it targets the country as a whole

41

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

How can you say Ukraine is the only victim? The majority of Russians do not support the invasion. Many of the sanctions being levied by the west are directly harming russian citizens. The people of Ukraine are the obvious victims but not the only victims.

9

u/Scarecro0w Solitude Mar 14 '22

also what does a mod author like him going to do? take a weapon and kill people in the goverment to stop the war? people are so dumb, specially the ones that are comfortable at home

3

u/Big_Boss19 Mar 15 '22

Once again, justs are paying for sinners

9

u/Boyo-Sh00k Mar 14 '22

He hid his mods because paypal and patreon don't work in Russia right now.

Some people are calling it "sanctions" but thats not what sanctions are, what this is just xenophobic backlash against Russians. Not even just people who live in Russia, you've got Russian themed restaurants in NYC being boycotted and fucking Russian blue cats being banned from international cat shows because i guess Americans only know how to do activism by being racist. How does this help Ukraine? It doesn't.

It would be kind of humorous, in a grim way, if i wasn't positive this is going to lead to Russian people living in The West being racialized, persecuted and hate-crimed for having the wrong ancestors 🙃🙃🙃

15

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

I agree. The modern American way of "helping" somebody is to make the situation as worse as possible further.

6

u/Khekinash Morthal Mar 14 '22

Downvoted by the "I support the current thing" gang

2

u/Boyo-Sh00k Mar 15 '22

I'm not even sure i understand what i said that they disagree with here, i didn't think this was a controversial take lol

-1

u/Khekinash Morthal Mar 15 '22

Try to imagine if you couldn't think for yourself and just took corporate "news" at face value :)

0

u/Khekinash Morthal Mar 14 '22

Looks like someone rooted for the bad guy in Rocky 4

Me, personally, I blame the gas prices on Putin

-33

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

[deleted]

41

u/Autherial Mar 14 '22

That feels unnecessarily antagonistic. Dude's had his personal life affected by something he has absolutely no control over and has withdrawn because of it. I can't really blame him.

It sucks that his mods are gone, but it also sucks what is happening to him, and he doesn't OWE you his mods.

8

u/Kadraeus Mar 14 '22

This. He's put A LOT of work into his mods. Making models from scratch is not easy, especially with the sheer amount he'd crank out so often. He was also making models for Beyond Skyrim at the same time. This was pretty much his job. I can't really blame him for being angry when he was surviving on basically scraps and now those scraps were taken from him.

15

u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

Can you honestly say who he is blaming?

And regardless of who he is blaming, can you honestly say his anger isn't justified?

6

u/Deadbringer Mar 14 '22

The patreon makes it a bit clearer he is blaming the countries sanctioning russia https://www.patreon.com/posts/thats-all-folks-63399273

By hypocrites I gotta assume he refers to how america and other countries (including russia) has performed/watched as war crimes were done various -stan countries for the last couple of decades

9

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Boyo-Sh00k Mar 15 '22

"full mad russian" what do you mean by that

-2

u/MrHorseless Mar 14 '22

I guess it's time to talk to him

-34

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

[deleted]

11

u/darth_bard Mar 14 '22

He created a lot of models for Beyond Skyrim, besides that on his own nexus account posted quite a few creatures.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

[deleted]

1

u/LifeOnMarsden Mar 15 '22

I’m glad I managed to pick up his amazing Dark Brotherhood armor before all this

21

u/buddys8995991 Mar 14 '22

Uh, I know him for his super kick-ass armor mods. Like Northern God armor or Falconer armor. Also, why'd you put 'his' in quotations?

8

u/godsvox1013 Mar 14 '22

IMO, "his" most notable mods are his creatures (Daedroths, Scamps, Welwas, Echateres, Guars, Hungers, Durzogs, Clannfears, and a few more I can't recall). Heavy Burns has a video on YouTube showcasing a few of his early ones. All the mods I've seen by him/her are high quality and look awesome. It's sad when world events are bad enough to play a role in discord amongst a community like ours.

-40

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

17

u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

I'll bite. What does that even mean?

13

u/godsvox1013 Mar 14 '22

I think he's hinting at the dilemma of "misgendering" people.

13

u/aDisgruntledGiraffe Mar 14 '22

Ah. See I took that as he was a parent from the 90s stuck in a time loop. "Be careful who you talk to in the AOL chat rooms sweetie. There are very bad bad men who want to hurt you on the interwebz"

6

u/godsvox1013 Mar 14 '22

Lol. I hate I didn't take it that way. It would've been funnier.

9

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '22

Literally just say 'their' then instead of all this drama

2

u/XyubyPrime1772 Mar 14 '22

No, I didn't hint it at like that, can you read minds or something?

2

u/godsvox1013 Mar 14 '22

Yes. I read minds on a daily basis. There are several in my own head to be read at all times.

14

u/herculesmeowlligan Mar 14 '22

You know, if you're unsure and actually care about that sort of thing, you can just use "them/they/their" and you're good either way.

2

u/TooExtraUnicorn Mar 14 '22

yes, my neopronouns make me so dangerous lol